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thecoffeecake

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thecoffeecake last won the day on May 20

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160 If only all posters were this good

About thecoffeecake

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    Toms River,NJ/Philadelphia
  1. The Devils Uniforms

    Man I thought they were as terrible on the ice. I was holding my breath like a lot of you about how they'd look in action, but I still hate them. Ask me again in 10 years.
  2. Devils to be Affiliated with the ECHL Adirondack Thunder

    But, again, AC did better attendance wise 15 years ago than Adk does now. If an AC team would fail, if there's no appetite for a team in Jersey, the same would go for Adk. And if there's ownership up there willing to operate under those circumstances, the Devils, as you said, could probably get investors together for an AC team. Not only would it cost them nothing, as you said, it's a chance to grow the fan base long term. Isn't this Adk thing one year? I'm hoping Jersey is the long term plan for ownership, and their spending time doing just that, looking for investors to bring the team(s) this way (I don't know what kind of commitment they have in Binghamton).
  3. Devils to be Affiliated with the ECHL Adirondack Thunder

    Yea, but every team is inflating those numbers. They were mostly a middle of the pack attendance wise, inflated numbers or no.
  4. Devils to be Affiliated with the ECHL Adirondack Thunder

    Yes, I understand your point that the Devils do not outright own the teams, and I don't think that's a route they should go. This mostly deteriorated from me complaining that the affiliates aren't in the state to arguing the merits of cities here compared with keeping them in Upstate NY. However, it's not as if NHL teams that don't own their affiliates have no say in where they're located. I would find it hard to believe the Devils couldn't find investors to bring a team to the state. The backing of an NHL team wishing to affiliate has to raise the value of a brand in a given city. Also, I understand the price tag on facility rent differs, but with how much the sport has grown, there's no reason an AC team with proper backing couldn't close in on 4K attendance and dwarf the gate revenue Adk produces. Also, I don't know how Boardwalk Hall is managed, but, with the state take over of public assets in AC, I'm sure the state would want to work something out on a decent lease for an underused facility that provided an economic impact north of $10 million in 4 years with the Bullies. And you're right, any exposure like that will absolutely grow the brand in the long term. Someone at some point is either going to have to put the money and effort to grow the Devils brand in this state ( with our without the affiliates here), or pull the plug and move the damn team. So few teams have the obstacles the Devils do in getting people in the seats, and almost no teams make as little effort to build a fan base as we do.
  5. Devils to be Affiliated with the ECHL Adirondack Thunder

    1) Objectively wrong. Very few people from Toms River or most of Ocean County consider the area South Jersey, therefore, it isn't South Jersey. Someone from North Jersey that hasn't ever stepped foot anywhere in the state south of Metropark doesn't get to decide what our towns are or aren't. Also, Philadelphia isn't in New Jersey. 2) If the Bullies attendance wasn't good enough, the neither is Adirondack's. Simple. Adk has outdrawn one year of Bullies attendance in their first two seasons. You cannot make an attendance argument if you are OK with the Devils affiliate being in Adk. Tell me you want them in a major city, and then whine about attendance. But to say the Bullies had too poor attendance and then say Glenn Falls is an acceptable location is a fallacy. AC had one down year of attendance and the team was sold. They didn't have the backing of a major professional club who would be committed to making a team work there. 3) The size of the arena has nothing to do with the survival of the team. It does not make attendance issues better or worse. 4) Again, AC may be less popular, but it is far more popular than Glenn Falls and Binghamton. AC still gets MILLIONS of visitors every single year. AC being less popular still has a lot more potential than either of those two cities. But, again, you overstate AC's decline. Non-gaming tourism was at an all time high in recent years, and 2 of the 4 closed casinos are slated to be developed. Do you think the state is sitting idly by and allowing a huge tax revenue generator and its biggest resort town to collapse without a revitalization effort? Do you think one of the wealthiest and most industrious states in the country doesn't have the resources to take this on? Even today, tourism is slightly down, it's not as if they've lost 30% of visitors since its hey-day. 5) AC works as an agglomeration economy. The more entertainment options, the better. The team would benefit from high tourism (even though, yea, most people that go to AC to gamble probably wouldn't go to hockey games, but like any enterprise, hockey teams don't rely on most people in any given group to consume their product), and Atlantic City benefits by adding another entertainment option (not to mention a family friendly one, which lack of is often a good reason for families to not go to AC). 5.5/6) Since you love to reach back into your archives to cite arguments from months and years ago, you should do a better job keeping accurate record. Now, I know how much you like to dig through old threads, but don't worry; I recorded this one myself https://newyorkpuck.com/2016/07/09/why-the-nhl-made-a-mistake-with-this-round-of-expansion/ So there you have my detailed argument against Las Vegas expansion. The entertainment options argument has one sentence stuck in comparing the Las Vegas market to Columbus, a market of roughly the same size: " And unlike Columbus, Las Vegas residents have plenty of other outlets to spend their entertainment dollars." Note that here I'm discriminating between tourist dollars that would be spent on the Vegas team, and Vegas residents. Because, as you should know, the NHL and minor league hockey are different products. Minor league hockey only needs people in the seats to survive. The NHL needs its franchises to cultivate huge and dedicated fan bases. Actually, based on the tourism factor, I said "Like many others have observed, Las Vegas’ NHL team will be relying on gate revenue from away-fans at far higher rates than any other NHL market, including Florida. While Vegas may be putting people in the seats, at least during the first couple of seasons, I find it difficult to trust that they will build a healthy and thriving fan base of their own". So I actually mentioned tourists in a gambling city as an advantage for getting people into seats, but not for building a fan base. Atlantic City, unless, of course, the NHL wants to expand there, only needs people in the seats. So I cleared that up on my end, but I'll be waiting to hear from you how you think other entertainment outlets is a major detriment to an AC team but not for the Vegas team you fully support. 7) I don't really think I follow you here. I argued about the Rangers fans around our affiliates as a counter-point to you saying AC couldn't work because most hockey fans in the area are Flyers fans. My point was you can't argue it both ways. So, no, based on my arguments, why would I have an issue with WB-Scranton? 8) Again, in Adk's second season, they drew better than ONE bullies season, over a decade ago when hockey was less popular than today. 9) NHL and minor league hockey are different products. Having an NHL team nearby doesn't deter the success of minor league hockey. I don't think its great to stick them in the same building, but off-hand, just around here, Hartford, Hershey, Allentown, Bridgeport, Manchester, NH, Portland, ME, have all sustained the AHL for some time despite being close enough to NHL clubs. Toledo is one of the best drawing ECHL teams. 10) It's nice that we live in a world for a pejorative term for people who support universal basic human rights. There's no common sense there, you're just regurgitating a lot of empty narratives about things you really don't know much about. You can repeat the term "dying city" all you want, but you do remember the Devils play in Newark, right? You understand this team already has a history in investing in our state's inner cities, but you think it's a mistake to do the same thing with our affiliates? And finally, and again, you can't deny that even if you did honestly think Adk and Binghamton were better locations for these teams that Jersey spots (which I'm not entirely sure about), you HAVE to admit that you're essentially splitting hairs and arguing things that are marginal advantages those places have. If the differences are marginal, the Devils should be investing in our state. That's all there is to it, and despite all of this, that's still my primary point. They have a responsibility here.
  6. Devils to be Affiliated with the ECHL Adirondack Thunder

    I'm not from South Jersey. I'd be just as happy if an affiliate somehow ended up in Sussex County, but they belong in the state Trenton made a noticeable dent because they were last in attendance and the only ECHL team outright owned by the parent club. The Bullies did just fine in attendance. To call Binghamton Rangers country is not a stretch because most hockey fans in Binghamton are Rangers fans. Period. Same with Glenn Falls. Your argument was that AC was inappropriate because it was Flyers territory and there aren't enough Devils fans down there to support a Devils affiliate. So that means you either think Rangers fans are somehow more willing to support a rival minor league affiliate, that the B-Devils and Adirondack will successfully create enough Devils fans to support each project, or that Devils fans are going to commute and support the teams by themselves. Which is it? I'm not in support of affiliates being branded after parent clubs, and we've already gone over the Bullies attendance. If I need to refresh your memory, they drew 3200-3700 for their first 3 years before falling around 2500 their final year. And this was 15 years ago when hockey wasn't nearly as popular as it is today. You cannot rationalize arguing AC's attendance is the reason a team shouldn't go there, considering how much better the Bullies drew than Adirondack does. And Binghamton draws marginally better for the AHL. Oh boy, urban scholar over here laying down some hard truths. Drop the Reaganomics bullsh!t for a minute and talk to me rationally. First of all, a declining Atlantic City draws millions of tourists a year, is one of the biggest resort destinations on the East Coast, rakes in $3 billion in gaming revenue alone annually, is still the top convention destination on the east coast. Atlantic City dead has higher city and regional populations than Glenn Falls. Glenn Falls seems like a nice town of less than 20,000. I'd actually like to visit myself, I love Upstate New York. But it has zero, absolutely no advantages over Atlantic City. You cannot argue this. Attendance numbers back up the common sense at play here. I don't disagree thst they need a much better marketing effort across the board. But even if Atlantic City wasn't a better option in just about every way imaginable, my primary point is that the Devils have a responsiBility of investing in the state and growing the game here at every level. Period.
  7. Devils to be Affiliated with the ECHL Adirondack Thunder

    Everything you said is wrong. But before I get to any of that, it's all beside the point. The Devils as our only major professional sports team should be dedicated to growing the sport in the state at all levels, and should be investing their money within state lines. Period. Unless it makes a noticeable dent in their wallet, that's what their role should be. According to hockeydb, the Bullies drew between 3200-3700 their first 3 seasons. It wasn't until their last season that average attendance fell to around 2500. According to Wikipedia, Boardwalk Hall held under 7,000 for hockey. Binghamton drew marginally better for the Senators in a higher league. Adirondack didn't break 3,000 in either of their first two seasons. But hit the brakes a second. You have a problem with Atlantic City, a town within our state getting an affiliate because there are more Flyers fans down there, but you're totally fine with putting them up in Rangers territory? Before you do anything else, you're gonna have to rationalize this, because my head is absolutely spinning. Also, we know there is a sizable minority of Devils fans in South Jersey. Just by virtue of being in the state you have the opportunity to bring some fans aboard down there. There may never be more Devils fans than Flyers fans down there, but it's incredibly dumb to cede half of the state, where there are Devils fans even with zero marketing or tv exposure. And are you suggesting to me the Devils are attempting to build fanbases in Binghamton and Glenn Falls? So, the team drew better in Atlantic City than they do in Adirondack, a team firmly in Rangers country. There seems to go the foundation to your argument, yet again, if you want to talk about a square peg.
  8. Devils to be Affiliated with the ECHL Adirondack Thunder

    Hey it's the Boardwalk Bullies. They should buy the team and move them back to AC. Or they'll just continue to disregard our state and continue to support and affiliate with New York projects. Sounds great.
  9. Around the League: 2016-17 edition

    Appeal of city, the first thing you mentioned. For most guys, their hometown is going to be as if not more appealing than any amenity a certain city has. It's certainly not so much about the team itself, but your hometown is probably tough to turn down if they're pursuing you. I'm sure that's not true for everyone, I bet plenty of guys feel more attached to the place that drafted them at 17 and that they've lived in for the past however many years. A lot of them left home very young on top of everything else. But a player wanting to play in their hometown certainly isn't an "exception". Look at Parise, Suter, Clarkson, Kovalchuk, Hamonic, just off the top of my head. Stamkos was most definitely a leaf if he hadn't re-signed in Tampa.
  10. Devils Beach Bash

    Do you need a ticket to go and not meet the players? Or a Point beach badge?
  11. The Devils Uniforms

    Yea but I remember the Sixers being the first team to officially pull the trigger, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the Devils be the first to announce and lead the first class of jersey ads. I guess North American sports waited out pretty long, but I guess I was naive and thought we'd never have ads.
  12. The Devils Uniforms

    I don't know when this country's obsession with sleek cartoons as logos is going to fade away. Whenever I think they're done, they come back with a vengeance. Still think it's dumb to have the minor league squad named after the big club. Let them develop their own identity. In other news, the Sixers revealed new uniforms. The good news is they're great looking, the bad news is the stubhub patch. No doubt with these owners we'll be the first with advertisements.
  13. Johnny Mac joins Coyotes as Asst. Coach

    Weekes is OK but definitely becoming a bit of a Rangers homer lately. It would be awesome to get another big name former Devil to step into the role. Maybe Gomer? I don't know what exactly his status is with NHL Network. Agree that Mac was terrible, as much as I don't like to complain about the broadcasting team. If you hear a name once, you should never forget how to say it. I thought Henrique's name was pronounced the way he used to say it the very first time I read his name, assuming he was Franco-Canadian. I heard his name one time and never thought to pronounce it that way again.
  14. The Devils Uniforms

    This does make sense. I still much prefer solid colors at home, for the reasons I mentioned, but I definitely understand these points. What do you guys think of the primary/secondary idea as opposed to home/away?
  15. The Devils Uniforms

    It's better than white being standard for home. Wearing white jerseys at home makes no sense except in baseball or soccer. Why would the away team be the one presenting their colors and the home team wear a neutral color? I also don't hate the idea of a primary and secondary, and as long as two primaries don't clash, would be worn together. There's not much of a reason the Devils couldn't wear red in Dallas or Toronto (I know color blindness is an issue with certain combos, though).
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