skeeter

Marty returns to his old mask

92 posts in this topic

Manta does get sh!t but it is not as personal, and perhaps you are right it is because he is not attacking someone like Marty. What is wrong with me not liking the franchise player right now? Why defend him so much as if he was your brother or a blood relative?

Also, I never said I always hated Marty. I am happy and proud he was part of the Devils for all these years and not going to take that away from him. I just think his best days are way behind him and he should have called it quits a couple years back as his play has clearly slipped (and I will admit a lot of it is due to age and fatigue). If I was saying this between 95 and about 2008, then I would totally agree with you and say I was talking crazy.

So basically I do not go after Marty now for the sake of going after him, I just think his star is burning out and would rather see someone else get a few years in and take the reigns sooner rather than later.

I guess it is a sin to say a franchise player's best days are behind him to a group of fans on a somewhat obscure message board on the internets.

The argument people have against that is that his numbers haven't slipped much, if at all (other than a half season), and the team has gotten worse. Those 2 seasons I posted were 1999-2000 and 2009-2010. The numbers were decade apart nearly identical. Yeah, he gives up a few soft goals, but I think he always did. I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't, really.

And while I agree that his playoff numbers are less than stellar, he hasn't had much help on offense.

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Manta calls me Crap instead of Carp.

But that's fine. At least I'm not called Manta-hug-and-kiss.

Edited by CarpathianForest

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The argument people have against that is that his numbers haven't slipped much, if at all (other than a half season), and the team has gotten worse. Those 2 seasons I posted were 1999-2000 and 2009-2010. The numbers were decade apart nearly identical. Yeah, he gives up a few soft goals, but I think he always did. I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't, really.

And while I agree that his playoff numbers are less than stellar, he hasn't had much help on offense.

Fair enough.

How about I just leave this thread with saying I am happy to see the old design back.

Cool? And I was actually being sincere about it lol never liked the MB30 thing and the new blocker looks pretty cool too.

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OK, since Brodeur seems to be the end all, be all of the Devils playoff success, let's look at some playoff numbers over his career.

Year: Team SH% (opposing goalies' combined SV%) - Brodeur's SV% - Round Eliminated

2009-10: 6.7% (.933) - .881 - 1st Round

2008-09: 6.2% (.938) - .929 - 1st Round

2007-08: 8.3% (.917) - .891 - 1st Round

2006-07: 9.5% (.905) - .916 - 2nd Round

2005-06: 11.8% (.882) - .923 - 2nd Round

2003-04: 5.8% (.942) - .902 - 1st Round

2002-03: 9.2% (.908) - .934 - Won Stanley Cup

2001-02: 5.6% (.944) - .938 - 1st Round

2000-01: 9.5% (.905) - .897 - Cup Final

1999-00: 8.4% (.916) - .927 - Won Stanley Cup

1998-99: 9.1% (.909) - .856 - 1st Round

1997-98: 6.9% (.927) - .927 - 1st Round

1996-97: 6.9% (.927) - .929 - 2nd Round

1994-95: 11% (.890) - .927 - Won Stanley Cup

1993-94: 8.1% (.919) - .928 - East Final

Using Brodeur's career average playoff save percentage of .919 (a full .001 better than Roy's ... just sayin' :lol:) as the cutoff, I basically bolded what's good. That means any time Brodeur performed above his average, it's bolded, and any time the team's shooting percentage left the opposing goalies with a combined save percentage below Marty's career average, it's bolded.

What does it all mean? Not that much, really. If we shoot well AND Marty plays above his average, we'll win it all 75% of the time. And really, Marty's .916 in 2006-07 isn't far off from his average, so you could say that when everyone's playing well, we'll win it all 60% of the time. Sometimes the forwards shoot better than Marty stops 'em, and sometimes it's visa versa. Recent history has been mostly bad on both sides, but both sides also have at least one solid year in the last three postseasons.

What it all boils down to is this ... do you really wanna spend your time finding reasons to talk down our goalie? He's done enough to earn some leeway from us, and to anyone who looks at ALL the numbers it's obvious that blame is shared rather than belonging solely to him. So, again, do you really wanna spend your time finding reasons to talk down our goalie? If yes, then you should spend equal time talking down our offense, because they're just as much to blame for any of this team's playoff shortcomings.

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You fixed nothing. Your 'elite team' thing is cool and all, but inaccurate. Do you really call the teams he's had in front of him since Stevens retired 'elite'?? Really?

Guess the season.... He played 72 games, had a 2.24 GAA, .910 save %, went 43-20-8, and had 6 shutouts.

Guess the season.... He played 77 games, had a 2.24 GAA, .916 save %, went 45-25-6, and had 9 shutouts.

Elite defense (with games played)... Scott Niedermayer (71), Brian Rafalski (75), Scott Stevens (78), Lyle Odelein (57), Sheldon Souray (52), Ken Daneyko (78), Vladimir Malakhov (17), Brad Bombardir (32), Colin White (21), Ken Sutton (6), Deron Quint (4), Willie Mitchell (2)

Elite defense (with games played)... Andy Greene (78), Mike Mottau (79), Bryce Salvador (79), Colin White (81), Paul Martin (22), Mark Fraser (61), Johnny Oduya (40), Cory Murphy (12), Anssi Salmela (9), Martin Skoula (19), Tyler Eckford (3), Rob Davison (1), Matt Corrente (12)

Looks like consistency to me, unless you feel Colin White was the elite catalyst. And I know you and I feel the same about Colin White, so that can't be it.

Good post

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I've attacked manta lots. and he's never attacked me. I feel awful about it too because I like him and I have an AWEFUL communication style. I communicate via conflict resolution -- so I start conflict in order to learn during the resolution. :noclue: at least I get that about myself.

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OK, since Brodeur seems to be the end all, be all of the Devils playoff success, let's look at some playoff numbers over his career.

Year: Team SH% (opposing goalies' combined SV%) - Brodeur's SV% - Round Eliminated

2009-10: 6.7% (.933) - .881 - 1st Round

2008-09: 6.2% (.938) - .929 - 1st Round

2007-08: 8.3% (.917) - .891 - 1st Round

2006-07: 9.5% (.905) - .916 - 2nd Round

2005-06: 11.8% (.882) - .923 - 2nd Round

2003-04: 5.8% (.942) - .902 - 1st Round

2002-03: 9.2% (.908) - .934 - Won Stanley Cup

2001-02: 5.6% (.944) - .938 - 1st Round

2000-01: 9.5% (.905) - .897 - Cup Final

1999-00: 8.4% (.916) - .927 - Won Stanley Cup

1998-99: 9.1% (.909) - .856 - 1st Round

1997-98: 6.9% (.927) - .927 - 1st Round

1996-97: 6.9% (.927) - .929 - 2nd Round

1994-95: 11% (.890) - .927 - Won Stanley Cup

1993-94: 8.1% (.919) - .928 - East Final

Using Brodeur's career average playoff save percentage of .919 (a full .001 better than Roy's ... just sayin' :lol:) as the cutoff, I basically bolded what's good. That means any time Brodeur performed above his average, it's bolded, and any time the team's shooting percentage left the opposing goalies with a combined save percentage below Marty's career average, it's bolded.

What does it all mean? Not that much, really. If we shoot well AND Marty plays above his average, we'll win it all 75% of the time. And really, Marty's .916 in 2006-07 isn't far off from his average, so you could say that when everyone's playing well, we'll win it all 60% of the time. Sometimes the forwards shoot better than Marty stops 'em, and sometimes it's visa versa. Recent history has been mostly bad on both sides, but both sides also have at least one solid year in the last three postseasons.

What it all boils down to is this ... do you really wanna spend your time finding reasons to talk down our goalie? He's done enough to earn some leeway from us, and to anyone who looks at ALL the numbers it's obvious that blame is shared rather than belonging solely to him. So, again, do you really wanna spend your time finding reasons to talk down our goalie? If yes, then you should spend equal time talking down our offense, because they're just as much to blame for any of this team's playoff shortcomings.

Just to play devils advocate here...3 of Marty's last 4 seasons have been subpar, based on those numbers. From that, you can conclude that he is on the decline. But, then again, the whole team hasnt been stellar either.

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OK, since Brodeur seems to be the end all, be all of the Devils playoff success, let's look at some playoff numbers over his career.

Year: Team SH% (opposing goalies' combined SV%) - Brodeur's SV% - Round Eliminated

2009-10: 6.7% (.933) - .881 - 1st Round

2008-09: 6.2% (.938) - .929 - 1st Round

2007-08: 8.3% (.917) - .891 - 1st Round

2006-07: 9.5% (.905) - .916 - 2nd Round

2005-06: 11.8% (.882) - .923 - 2nd Round

2003-04: 5.8% (.942) - .902 - 1st Round

2002-03: 9.2% (.908) - .934 - Won Stanley Cup

2001-02: 5.6% (.944) - .938 - 1st Round

2000-01: 9.5% (.905) - .897 - Cup Final

1999-00: 8.4% (.916) - .927 - Won Stanley Cup

1998-99: 9.1% (.909) - .856 - 1st Round

1997-98: 6.9% (.927) - .927 - 1st Round

1996-97: 6.9% (.927) - .929 - 2nd Round

1994-95: 11% (.890) - .927 - Won Stanley Cup

1993-94: 8.1% (.919) - .928 - East Final

Using Brodeur's career average playoff save percentage of .919 (a full .001 better than Roy's ... just sayin' :lol:) as the cutoff, I basically bolded what's good. That means any time Brodeur performed above his average, it's bolded, and any time the team's shooting percentage left the opposing goalies with a combined save percentage below Marty's career average, it's bolded.

What does it all mean? Not that much, really. If we shoot well AND Marty plays above his average, we'll win it all 75% of the time. And really, Marty's .916 in 2006-07 isn't far off from his average, so you could say that when everyone's playing well, we'll win it all 60% of the time. Sometimes the forwards shoot better than Marty stops 'em, and sometimes it's visa versa. Recent history has been mostly bad on both sides, but both sides also have at least one solid year in the last three postseasons.

What it all boils down to is this ... do you really wanna spend your time finding reasons to talk down our goalie? He's done enough to earn some leeway from us, and to anyone who looks at ALL the numbers it's obvious that blame is shared rather than belonging solely to him. So, again, do you really wanna spend your time finding reasons to talk down our goalie? If yes, then you should spend equal time talking down our offense, because they're just as much to blame for any of this team's playoff shortcomings.

You could also argue the last 3 years that Brodeur was outplayed by the other goalie as well.

But I could also see where you are right that Marty has had pretty piss-poor offense in front of him lately.

I just do not think he is as good as he used to be. You can say he was good in the 2009 playoffs and his stats will show that, but 2 last-minute softies in game 7 in which years ago he used to be able to stop and we are out of it.

I do not think you will disagree he needs to play at most 60 games this season and he is not quite the goalie he used to be. He is 39 now and not 29 and has lost a step. Is he one of the better goalies in the league? Most likely, but I guess my view have been skewed to where I just keep remembering the Marty of 95-05 and how he was then.

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What is the significance behind the J without the N on the helmet. I know he explained it once I just dont remember.

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You from Jersey?

Thank you Brody! Lil more this is TEAM . Little less this is ME. :clap2:

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What is the significance behind the J without the N on the helmet. I know he explained it once I just dont remember.

I think he said because he didn't know where exactly he was going to start that season so did not want to finish it before he knew where he would be full-time. Once he made the team he just never really bothered to go back and finish it and it stuck.

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What is the significance behind the J without the N on the helmet. I know he explained it once I just dont remember.

The significance is that when Brodeur first started with the organization he didn't know if he would be playing in Utica or get called up with the big club. So he left that J on his helmet so he could change it to U or add the N. He did neither.

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I think he said because he didn't know where exactly he was going to start that season so did not want to finish it before he knew where he would be full-time. Once he made the team he just never really bothered to go back and finish it and it stuck.

The significance is that when Brodeur first started with the organization he didn't know if he would be playing in Utica or get called up with the big club. So he left that J on his helmet so he could change it to U or add the N. He did neither.

Oh yeah thats right. Thanks fellers!

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Just to play devils advocate here...3 of Marty's last 4 seasons have been subpar, based on those numbers. From that, you can conclude that he is on the decline. But, then again, the whole team hasnt been stellar either.

Advocate away ...

His last three "declining" postseasons have been .891, .929 and .881. In 2001, he was coming off a trio of years that were actually worse than that, posting .856, .927 and .897, respectively. So you could have said he was declining then too. Except he then followed that up with the two best statistical playoff performances of his life.

You could also argue the last 3 years that Brodeur was outplayed by the other goalie as well.

But I could also see where you are right that Marty has had pretty piss-poor offense in front of him lately.

I just do not think he is as good as he used to be. You can say he was good in the 2009 playoffs and his stats will show that, but 2 last-minute softies in game 7 in which years ago he used to be able to stop and we are out of it.

I do not think you will disagree he needs to play at most 60 games this season and he is not quite the goalie he used to be. He is 39 now and not 29 and has lost a step. Is he one of the better goalies in the league? Most likely, but I guess my view have been skewed to where I just keep remembering the Marty of 95-05 and how he was then.

Ya know, there's something weird about shooting/save percentage. Save percentage is often used as the ultimate measuring stick of a goalie, but shooting percentage usually doesn't discussed without a heavy dosage of the word "luck" tossed in there. Not sure why there's such a double standard when it comes to, essentially, two versions of the same statistic.

Anyway, I actually do agree with you. Marty isn't the goalie he was. It's an inevitable outcome of time. He isn't as quick, his stickhandling isn't as crisp and his reflexes aren't what they were. That said, IMO those elements are still better than those of your average goalie. That's the thing with elite athletes. When good athletes decline, they're average. When elite athletes decline, they're still good.

And to be honest, I don't know what to think about regular season game totals for him. Some athletes need the reps. That might be the case for Marty, especially since his isn't a simple game of drop to your knees and take up space. If he needs the reps, I have no problem with DeBoer giving them to him. And if he decides to give Moose more games, I'm good with that too. I'm just not convinced it makes a huge difference one way or the other.

It's been said ad nauseum that goalies aren't as important in today's NHL as they were in the past. For some reason, the case then gets made for why this team can't win with Brodeur. That doesn't make sense. There's no way Marty freaking Brodeur isn't as good as Antti Niemi.

The Devils can still win it all with Brodeur. They'll just need the whole team to play well in order to do it. And, really, that's the way it's always been, whether Marty was 25- or 35-years old.

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Love the new equipment. Will be great to see Marty back in the old style helmet.

Mike

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Glad the big MB30 logo jinx mask is out. I wish he brought back some of his older pads as well....

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