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ghdi

Lets talk 2012.

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The religious right is gaining way too much power. I am a republican in fiscal policy only. The party as a whole is straying into territory that I cannot and will not agree with. Santorum is a complete moron if he continues to say crap like his statement that Obama's agenda is not bible based. It shouldn't be you fvcking twit. There is supposed to be separation b/t church and state. Why isn't he being "crucified" for this? Is the media so afraid of the religious right that we are becoming more and more like Islamist countries?

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The religious right is gaining way too much power. I am a republican in fiscal policy only. The party as a whole is straying into territory that I cannot and will not agree with. Santorum is a complete moron if he continues to say crap like his statement that Obama's agenda is not bible based. It shouldn't be you fvcking twit. There is supposed to be separation b/t church and state. Why isn't he being "crucified" for this? Is the media so afraid of the religious right that we are becoming more and more like Islamist countries?

Wow..anti-Islamist rhetoric........I've been excoriated for less.

BTW........the "Separation of Church and State" is we cannot establish a state religion. Let's not go crucifying people now.........or are you some right wing fanatical Bible thumping middle ages nut job?

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Is the media so afraid of the religious right that we are becoming more and more like Islamist countries?

It's comments like this that don't do people who believe in a complete wall of separation between religion and state any favors, for the primary reason that it's not true in any meaningful sense. When Santorum or any other serious political candidate starts saying that birth control ought to be banned under threat of imprisonment or that apostocy should be a criminal offense then maybe you'll have a point. Otherwise, you're just insulting religious people.

You are right, however, that by the same token nominating someone who says stuff like Santorum does, doesn't do any favors for people who want to defeat Obama in the next election. Even if there is this large swath of people who vote primarily on religious grounds significant enough to theoretically sway a national election (which all evidence says there is not) when push comes to shove, a lot more people are going to look to problems in their everyday lives and wonder what politicians who want to be cultural warriors have to offer. Let me put it this way. In 2008 a black guy, who a lot (but clearly not enough) of people believed was a non-citizen secret Muslim agent quite easily defeated a war hero with a running mate that clearly had Christian street cred. Indeed, I actually knew a few people who do believe that stuff about Obama, but STILL voted for him figuring that he had more to offer than the other guy.

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I agree 100% with the opinion that Rick Santorum needs to walk (run) away from contraception, the devil, women in the military, gay marriage and other stuff that is not a threat to the survival of America.

He needs to address social conservatism in a positive, arms-wide-open manner. He, rightly, has tied prosperity with strong families. He has also been outspoken on religious liberty, also good. This is where he needs to be on social issues. He needs to stay out of people's bedrooms and people's personal lives if their behavior isn't hurting anyone.

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He, rightly, has tied prosperity with strong families.

It's nice rhetoric and undoubtedly true. The problem is there's no way for Washington to do anything about it without invading the bedroom and our private lives.

That is, on the whole, absent fathers cause a lot of damage. Unfortunately, the government can't force a father to take responsibility for his children, other then to pay child support and to not be abusive.

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if any Presidential candidate EVER says anything about banning contraception, or how we need more God because we have freedom of religion, that that person is an ABSOLUTE moron.

Im sorry, i dont mean to be that guy in the political forums that just harasses people. but, with all the things that are going on, how can a person actually believe that those things are right??

and cmon, are we still in an era where we will vote for a person who says, "i will lower the tax rate?"

its ideas like these that really almost discourage me from voting in an election because it really seems like its a joke sometimes, like they just want the power.

i know my thoughts are aggressive but its the first time I've posted in this thread and I had to get something out

LGD :cheers:

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It's nice rhetoric and undoubtedly true. The problem is there's no way for Washington to do anything about it without invading the bedroom and our private lives.

Don't you believe people have the power to change? Especially if they know that they can't squeak out a living on the taxpayers' dime?

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Don't you believe people have the power to change? Especially if they know that they can't squeak out a living on the taxpayers' dime?

Yes, people can change, but you're not talking a small handful. To effect the change that you envision with your recent Santorum positivity you need a complete cultural and idealogical shift. Its not ever going to happen. The family unit has been in flux for more than 40 years now. Hell, when I was in junior and HS I had more friends from divorced families than intact ones and this is 15+ yrs ago.

Religion in policy is oppressive, especially in a country where faith or lack thereof doesn't hinder someones ability to live in relative freedom. The more industrialized, literate, and educated people (both sexes) become the less religion (which is the backbone of Santorum's entire political idealogy) plays a role. This is a fact throughout the world.

If Rick Santorum wins the GOP nomination, he won't win one state come election day.

Edited by ghdi

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Yes, people can change, but you're not talking a small handful. To effect the change that you envision with your recent Santorum positivity you need a complete cultural and idealogical shift. Its not ever going to happen. The family unit has been in flux for more than 40 years now. Hell, when I was in junior and HS I had more friends from divorced families than intact ones and this is a decade ago.

Religion in policy is oppressive, especially in a country where faith or lack thereof doesn't hinder someones ability to live in relative freedom. The more industrialized, literate, and educated people become the less religion (which is the backbone of Santorum's entire political idealogy) plays a role. This is a fact throughout the world.

If Rick Santorum wins the GOP nomination, he won't win one state come election day.

Now, you know your last statement is crazy, right? You'd like it to be true, but come on!

You are hung up on religion, and in a tizzy because you think Santorum wants to launch another Spanish inquisition. It's unfounded paranoia. But it's partly Santorum's fault. He expresses his beliefs in a declarative manner, and it comes off judgmental.

You know whose voice I'd like to hear during this campaign? George HW Bush. Was there a better president at expressing the importance of family and community good works? It earned him the grossly unfair "wimp" characterization. What Bush DIDN'T do was tie strong families and communities with prosperity. By depending on each other MORE, they can depend on government LESS. To me, this is the proper Republican message. And it is from this platform where the right can attack the left effectively, IMO.

Edited by Jerrydevil

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Now, you know your last statement is crazy, right? You'd like it to be true, but come on!

Its absolutely not crazy lol. Santorum will be landslided by Obama if hes the nominee. It'll be the biggest margin since 1984. Romney keeps things closer.

You are hung up on religion, and in a tizzy because you think Santorum wants to launch another Spanish inquisition. It's unfounded paranoia. But it's partly Santorum's fault. He expresses his beliefs in a declarative manner, and it comes off judgmental.

His idealogy is frightful. He's a homophobe and his social conservatism is completely backwoods. I don't want that man representing me throughout the world. Theres a reason he lost his senate seat by almost 1 million votes.

You know whose voice I'd like to hear during this campaign? George HW Bush. Was there a better president at expressing the importance of family and community good works? It earned him the grossly unfair "wimp" characterization.

Revisionist history much? HW Bush was branded a wimp because of his mealy-mouthed "innocent bystander" statement during Iran-Contra. He was branded a wimp while he was still VP. I like HW Bush. He seems like a nice man, but he was not branded a wimp because of his views on the American family. It may have perpetuated it in some circles, but it was there before he was President.

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Rick Santorum has my vote, and I believe he's a better candidate than Romney. He's a better conservative and I like his chances better against Obama, who I think would effectively paint Romney as an out-of-touch rich guy. No matter who gets it, Obama is going to be very difficult to beat.

As a democrat I hope there are a lot more people like you.

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It's nice rhetoric and undoubtedly true. The problem is there's no way for Washington to do anything about it without invading the bedroom and our private lives.

That is, on the whole, absent fathers cause a lot of damage. Unfortunately, the government can't force a father to take responsibility for his children, other then to pay child support and to not be abusive.

Thank you! I was reading thinking you cannot MANDATE strong families.

I like this entry -- it seems pretty factual. Rick Santorum

I'm fine if he gets the nomination but I dont think anyone even knows what he stands for -- they just read a blog and think "YEAH!" not listening to a thing the guy says, and the guy is too obtuse to understand why people like him.

republicans just seem so stupid nowadays -- Evolution is a hoax. Global warming is a hoax. Make voluntary population control illegal. Since we all know this, we MUST be right about how to run the economy -- clearly hard facts and overwhelming statistical evidence goes right over our heads with the simple stuff but economics we get... yeah... rrrright..... so convince me with more stupid talk about hoaxes and how much better the world would be with more fvcking people on it :doh1: HOLY SMOKES HOW DUMB CAN PEOPLE BE? CLEARLY VERY!!!!

Edited by Pepperkorn

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Pepperkorn, I'm not talking about mandates. The left make mandates. I'm talking about establishing an argument for the reduction in size of government.

Ghdi, Obama isn't landsliding anyone. You'll see. He may win, but this isn't going to be Mondale-Reagan, no matter who the GOP nominee is. Obama's rhetoric and policies are despised by many independents who voted for him. He's is going to have a very tough time in Ohio and Florida and other swing states, never mind the southern states where Obama has very little chance. Hello, Texas?

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Ghdi, Obama isn't landsliding anyone. You'll see. He may win, but this isn't going to be Mondale-Reagan, no matter who the GOP nominee is. Obama's rhetoric and policies are despised by many independents who voted for him. He's is going to have a very tough time in Ohio and Florida and other swing states, never mind the southern states where Obama has very little chance. Hello, Texas?

Against Rick Santorum, its a totally different story, and thats inarguable. He doesnt appeal to the middle at all. The middle will stay at home or vote for Obama if its Santorum. Obama's approval rating alone has jumped 15 points since November. Obama is becoming a stronger candidate because of the GOP's ineptitude to field a sane/real alternative to Obama. Romney is the only one that can keep it a contest as he's not divisive like Santorum.

What about Texas? Its not a guaranteed GOP stomp for Rick Santorum. For Romney, it is. Every state that the GOP won in 2008 is in play if Rick Santorum is the Republican nominee. Santorum will be the tipping point in swing states that will go to Obama.

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Against Rick Santorum, its a totally different story, and thats inarguable. He doesnt appeal to the middle at all. The middle will stay at home or vote for Obama if its Santorum. Obama's approval rating alone has jumped 15 points since November. Obama is becoming a stronger candidate because of the GOP's ineptitude to field a sane/real alternative to Obama. Romney is the only one that can keep it a contest as he's not divisive like Santorum.

What about Texas? Its not a guaranteed GOP stomp for Rick Santorum. For Romney, it is. Every state that the GOP won in 2008 is in play if Rick Santorum is the Republican nominee. Santorum will be the tipping point in swing states that will go to Obama.

We may not get the chance to see who is right, but recent polling data show that you underestimate Santorum. In some polls, Santorum is faring better than Romney vs. Obama, with Obama beating either one. I saw one recently where Obama had a 3-point lead on Santorum. That's no rout.

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hahaha polls are such a joke. like him or not, Obama is going to win, and probably by a lot. first of all, there is a certain demographic that is going to vote for Obama NO MATTER WHAT. also, even though im not a big fan of Obama, Santorum and Romney are two candidates that also dont strike a lot of young voters. anyone who ignorantly claims that he thinks he knows what freedom of religion is and then says there should be more God in our nation, or says anything negative about sex/ contraception is a person who still shows characteristics of why the conservatives are criticized so often.

i am even willing to say that is possible that we might never again see an active President with as strong and strict beliefs as those.

Regardless, i think that with the few republican candidates that are left, there might not be a way to avoid another Obama term

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Young people won't vote this time.

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Wow..anti-Islamist rhetoric........I've been excoriated for less.

BTW........the "Separation of Church and State" is we cannot establish a state religion. Let's not go crucifying people now.........or are you some right wing fanatical Bible thumping middle ages nut job?

You didn't notice the quotes around "crucify"?

Edited by devilsadvoc8

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We may not get the chance to see who is right, but recent polling data show that you underestimate Santorum. In some polls, Santorum is faring better than Romney vs. Obama, with Obama beating either one. I saw one recently where Obama had a 3-point lead on Santorum. That's no rout.

Ive seen 10+ polls (Rasmussen, RCP, etc) in the past few weeks that have Obama stomping Santorum by more than 10 points with sample sizes over 1500 with an average around 6 or 7 points (in a sample size of 1000, 6 or 7 is a big margin). Ive seen only one poll that had Santorum ahead of Obama. By 1 point with a margin of error of +/- 5 and a sample size of 1000. Last time around, McCain and Obama were neck and neck for polls leading at this juncture (neither had the nomination yet), same for Kerry/Bush. Poll #'s generally don't mean dick at this juncture in a race, but they're useful for trends and comparing against historical data. Right now the trends are: Landslide Obama when against Santorum or Paul, closer victory vs Romney. At this point, its less about the spread than about the amount of polls leading.

What do you think the election will be about if Santorum wins the nomination? The entire election will be about social issues because of how different they are, unless theres a major economic or foreign policy problem that develops between the nomination and the election. It certainly wont be about the economy, but it will be if its Romney. The GOP gives up their greatest attack vs Obama by choosing Santorum. He may espouse the same economical "values" as a conservative and he'll try his hardest to keep it on the economy, but a general between Obama and Santorum becomes a socially-based election that the GOP cant win this day in age nationally because of the extreme differences. Santorum's economics will not trump his social commentary because modern Republican and Democratic economic policies are closer to the same as they've ever been and we're not at the same point we were earlier in Obama's term. The Obama campaign is begging the Republicans to nominate Santorum.

If Santorum was believed by his own party to have a chance, there wouldnt be this massive drumbeat for a new candidate should Romney lose Michigan. Guys who would have a chance against Obama like Giuliani and Jeb Bush have been slamming Santorum lately because of his social views.

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Ghdi, it certainly appears that Santorum has failed to capitalize on his great showing in Colorado, Minnesota and Missouri. He's been torn at pretty good in the last two weeks, and he has not held up well. The social issues are traps. He fell right into them. I don't think he can help it though. It's who he is.

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Ghdi, it certainly appears that Santorum has failed to capitalize on his great showing in Colorado, Minnesota and Missouri. He's been torn at pretty good in the last two weeks, and he has not held up well. The social issues are traps. He fell right into them. I don't think he can help it though. It's who he is.

Well, no. He can't help it. He was raised that way and has believed in his viewpoints his entire life, which is commendable in certain respects, but rigidity is not the mark of a good leader. The thing is, is that we will never move back that way socially. The more socially "liberal" a society goes, the more it stays or wants to go further left. Europe being the prime example and you can even go back to ancient civs like Greece and Rome to see the same thing. Only something dramatic and/or usually destructive (i.e. a dictator or a 9/11 like event) can shift a society to the right on social issues, usually based on "safety" reasons and that shift back typically doesnt last. Economics are all ebb and flow, social trends tend to stay on one course. The 60s blew apart the social "norms" in this country, or brought em out in the open at least. So, in essence, the hippies won that battle or are winning still.

I dont share your same views on his failure to capitalize actually. Now is not the time to make in-roads on Obama, but hes made plenty on Romney. If Santorum wins Michigan, this race is going to get completely turned on its head. The candidates the GOP are presenting are not strong enough to beat an incumbent with the climate the way it is now. If this was 2010, different discussion. I want Santorum to win Michigan, because the buzz is crazy about Romney potentially dropping out if he loses. I dont believe he will, but if Santorum has a strong showing....

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WTF is Santorum trying to do?

“I don’t believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute. The idea that the church can have no influence or no involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely antithetical to the objectives and vision of our country.”

Where is he getting such misinformed garbage? Is he truely as ignorant as he sounds?

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WTF is Santorum trying to do?

“I don’t believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute. The idea that the church can have no influence or no involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely antithetical to the objectives and vision of our country.”

Where is he getting such misinformed garbage? Is he truely as ignorant as he sounds?

Actually he isn't wrong. There has never been an absolute separation of church and state.

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Actually he isn't wrong. There has never been an absolute separation of church and state.

Santorum isn't saying thats how its been, he's saying he doesn't believe in it. which yea, he should be criticized for hinting that there should be no separation between church and state

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