Mitico12

Kovalchuk

123 posts in this topic

He is what he is. He will electrify, he will cough it up. Hopefully, it's good enough to be a playoff team.

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He is what he is. He will electrify, he will cough it up. Hopefully, it's good enough to be a playoff Cup team.

Fixed

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Ok so its easy to say he does this because he doesn't have anybody to keep up with him. so he feels that, to utilize his speed, he must go at his pace. but im sure the case was the same in ATL, he didnt really have anyone to keep up with him either did he??

Savard, Heatley and then Hossa were/are elite players. Very much unlike his current 2nd line. So in Atlanta, most of the time, he had way better players setting him up.

I have pretty high hopes for our powerplay unit with Kovy, Parise, Elias, Larsson.. But I doubt we'll get the most out of IK if he has to keep carrying his current line.

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I hope once Parise gets some time under his belt this year that he'll be double shifted as well as Kovy. He is always the one on the 4th line double shifting.

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Savard, Heatley and then Hossa were/are elite players. Very much unlike his current 2nd line. So in Atlanta, most of the time, he had way better players setting him up.

Heatley was not an elite player in Atlanta and I'm not even sure they played together except on the PP. I am pretty sure that Hossa and Kovalchuk were on different lines. Plus while Kovalchuk played with excellent forwards, the defense on Atlanta was terrible.

I have pretty high hopes for our powerplay unit with Kovy, Parise, Elias, Larsson.. But I doubt we'll get the most out of IK if he has to keep carrying his current line.

but this is just fine. kovalchuk with elite players isn't going to get the most out of those players, either. right now NJ has two excellent lines - last night was a perfect example. the predators matched up suter and weber on the elias line, and the elias line didn't do all that well. but the kovalchuk line dominated.

Edited by Triumph

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I think maybe Kovy wouldn't look like a puck hog if he had people on his line that were more his speed. Josefson and the other guy are pretty good, but they just don't match up



Edited by titleofusername98

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Heatley was not an elite player in Atlanta and I'm not even sure they played together except on the PP. I am pretty sure that Hossa and Kovalchuk were on different lines.

Not sure what your criteria for "eliteness" is exactly. But Heatley won the Calder Memorial in his first year racking up 67 points in his debut season. Then followed that with an 89 point season in his second year. (Followed by the lockout season and the move to Ottawa where he was even better.) You're right in that they didn't always play together though.

Plus while Kovalchuk played with excellent forwards, the defense on Atlanta was terrible.

No doubt true, add that to his own defensive limitations and you have the explanation for his career +-.

kovalchuk with elite players isn't going to get the most out of those players, either. right now NJ has two excellent lines - last night was a perfect example. the predators matched up suter and weber on the elias line, and the elias line didn't do all that well. but the kovalchuk line dominated.

Can't really argue with that, even though a top center next to Kovy on every shift is a wet dream of mine. It is indeed likely that teams will keep matching their 1st with the ESP line. So, when we get TZ back things will hopefully look up.

For example; pay attention to Gaborik this season now that he has Richards feeding him.. It's gonna make a world of difference.

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i was watching the Oilers Cannucks game yesterday, what a game

and its true, when Hall RNH, Eberle was on the ice they were FLYING and were all over the place, it was fast and the puck was cycling in the zone so fast. There's no way Palmieri could keep up with that

and cannucks were just the Cannucks... their creativity (in the season) is just wonderful, they just make the nicest play shifts after shifts

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If he scores, hes great. If sucks, he well....sucks. He needs to score to be effective, I dont know why this is news to anyone

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Not sure what your criteria for "eliteness" is exactly. But Heatley won the Calder Memorial in his first year racking up 67 points in his debut season. Then followed that with an 89 point season in his second year. (Followed by the lockout season and the move to Ottawa where he was even better.) You're right in that they didn't always play together though.

The Calder is for the best rookie, but 67 points is merely very good production. I had forgotten about the 89 point season, but Heatley is a great shooter, like Kovalchuk, and like Kovalchuk he doesn't really help his team's +/-. That 2003 team was outshot by 300.

For example; pay attention to Gaborik this season now that he has Richards feeding him.. It's gonna make a world of difference.

I doubt that Gaborik will put up better numbers this year than he did in 2010. His center that year was Vinny Prospal - a good player, but far from an elite center. Centers matter, but Kovalchuk can do just fine with Josefson and Palmieri. The reason why you get star players like Kovalchuk is that you don't need to surround him with 4 other great players for him to succeed.

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I think it's coming on nicely for Ilya. Back to back gorgeous SO goals, and now a PP goal from the deep slot must all be helping build his confidence.

I would like to see more energy from him crashing in on the net with the puck rather than doing his big gliding runs around the back of the net, and I would like to see him get much more aggressive on the forecheck especially down low behind the goal line.

On the PP ... he's a bit too static and one-dimensional for my liking. That shot from the attacking left circle will dial in and he'll score a few there, but it's telling that he moved position and scored immediately. Looking at the Pred's PP - their 2 goals showed some positions that I would love to see us getting into ... either lurking a stick's length lateral to the goal, or in the mid slot for a deflection.

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On the PP ... he's a bit too static and one-dimensional for my liking.

Totally agree, but I feel like the whole unit is suffering from this.. I don't know much about coaching PP units, but we seem to be severely lacking creativity.. Which is odd, since we have pretty strong setup on paper.

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My opinion on Kovalchuk is this, there are times when he looks dominant and times where he's a wtf type player. So far I think he's been more dominant than WTF so to speak...I also think he has bought into DeBoer's system quite nicely, he's been cycling the puck down low and fighting along the boards, both are things I never expected to see out of him.

My biggest gripe is that it seems like he's been on the ice for a goal against in EVERY SINGLE GAME. That's bound to happen though when you play upwards of 30 minutes a game.

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This is from today's practice:

Devils played "score-won't score" where players line up on either side of the ice to bet on whether a player will score a goal. Losers have to skate sprints back and forth across the ice.

All but a handful of players bet that Kovalchuk would score on Hedberg, but he fanned on his shot. Elias, Sykora, Zubrus, Tallinder were those who correctly thought Kovalchuk would not score.

NJ.com

:whistling:

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I would like to see more energy from him crashing in on the net with the puck rather than doing his big gliding runs around the back of the net, and I would like to see him get much more aggressive on the forecheck especially down low behind the goal line.

I don't think we'll see this, especially the part about the forecheck. We might see it during important games, but I think Ilya likes to save himself - he tends to take wide angles on players while forechecking, angles that force a player into a certain area, but that rarely force a player to cough up the puck (or that lead to body contact between Ilya and the puck carrier)

Edited by Triumph

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If people are still complaining about Kovalchuk after this last game then something is wrong. That was some of the best cycling I seen out of Kovalchuk since he came to NJ. They dominated physically off the draws in the offensive zone as well.

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Isn't it exciting! I still credit Sykora for this. It's just leading by example -- that line leading by example sort of jogging everyone's memory. AND the coaching staff has something to point to that's at least in the ball park! :unsure: or ice rink...

It's just the right direction. That's all I ask - all I want at this point. Just be successful enough to build and retain confidence!

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I've always found it wierd that people make a point to say "this is still parise's team" whenever they complain about kovalchuk. Yes, it absolutely IS Parise's team, but that is the only way to have a Kovalchuk type player and be a successful team. Look at the Penguins. Who here would say that they are Malkin's team? It doesn't matter though because he is just there to add scoring. Same goes for Kovalchuk. He's a hired gun, and he plays that role extremely well as shown with his numerous GWG's.

Also, Tri, I agree the benefit of having a superstar player is that you dont have to play him with other top talent to get production out of him, and that is clearly proven by his current line. The thing is when you play a superstar with no good linemates that still forces them to do things themselves which is what everyone seems to be complaining about with Kovalchuk's play. I know it was brief, but remember back to the begining of last season where Kovalchuk was playing on a line with Parise. Those two were making plays back and forth with each other constantly because both of them were confindent that the other wasn't going to botch the play. With his current linemates on the other hand, Kovalchuk dishes the puck to them and often times that the end of the play because they aren't expecting the passes or the passes that kovie makes bounce off their sticks beacuse he passes to hard for them to corral it. Palmieri has a paticular habit of ruining plays when he gets the puck in transition and I think that really affects Kovlachuk's ability to utilize all of his skills.

In my opinion, the difference between the typical "makes players around him better" type of superstar and the Kovalchuk variety superstar is that in those situations where you need to utilize your linemates most(on cycles, give-and-goes, etc) the first type of player (Parise types) will make the plays easier for his linemates making them look better. Kovalchuk on the other hand plays the game at a certain level and never really comes down from there no matter who his linemates are. Linemates with Kovalchuk need to have the same kind of skill set that Kovalchuk has to get that line synergy that makes for the incredible lines because otherwise they just look like disjoined pieces when Kovalchuk rifles unexpected passes at them or makes any of the other unconventional moves that he uses all the time.

long story short Kovalchuk, IMO, is the type of player that makes good linemates better and looks like a one man show with linemates that are "below him" in terms of thinking the game at a high level and playing the game the way he does. Get Kovalchuk some linemates that he trust with the puck and then we can get the huge spike in production we all hope for.

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I've always found it wierd that people make a point to say "this is still parise's team" whenever they complain about kovalchuk.

That's why I choose to interpret the statement as an epiphany for any out of touch poster who continually misinterpret Kovalcuk's role here. "FINALLY you understand - can ya quit bitching now?"

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Centers matter, but Kovalchuk can do just fine with Josefson and Palmieri. The reason why you get star players like Kovalchuk is that you don't need to surround him with 4 other great players for him to succeed.

Yup, thats his value to this team right now. giving us goal production and a world class skill set from the 2nd line. Palmieri's and josephson's job is to simply get him the puck. on his first goal of the season they did just that! and despite his holes and flaws I still would pay money to watch him skate!

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He had 32 minutes in Nashville. Thats tons he said he has had that much in Atlanta as well. But Deboer said he won't always get that much which is good to me as well. If he can get all the extra minutes why can't Parise? he is our captain and deserves to be out there just as long.

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He had 32 minutes in Nashville. Thats tons he said he has had that much in Atlanta as well. But Deboer said he won't always get that much which is good to me as well. If he can get all the extra minutes why can't Parise? he is our captain and deserves to be out there just as long.

Even though Parise plays less minutes then Kovalchuk, his minutes are much tougher (he plays on the pk, more aggressive style). Parise would burn out by the end of the season if he played 30 minutes every night, Kovy's style of play allows him to play so long without getting tired.

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Just posted this in the GDT, though it probably shoulda gone here...

Kovalchuk's TOI the past two games:

10/13 vs. LAK - 29:37

10/15 at NSH - 32:04

He's played over 60 minutes in the past two games combined. Right now he's 4th in the league in TOI, and the closest forward to him is Anze Kopitar (ranked 36th).

5nosqx.jpg

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