newarkdev01

GDT: Islanders @ NJ Devils 1PM 11/26/11

328 posts in this topic

I don't know why he would compare Drury with Parise.

Pat Verbeek aged pretty well, by the way, and he took a ton of punishment in his career. He dished some out, too, though.

Now, I wouldn't exactly compare Verbeek and Parise as identical, except that they both never stopped moving their feet and they both were/are willing to pay the price to score goals. And I'd take either over Kovalchuk.

Kovalchuk's shot and passing wont diminish with age, but Parise's speed and agility will

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while we are here whining about Kovalchuk not producing at 6.6m

if you look at all the players with a bigger or similar cap hit, some are having great season and other arent, since its kinda hard to gauge since some have less or more game, so i went with points % per game played

most of them have a better % than Kovy but they all have a bigger cap hit too, so there's 20 players with the same or higher cap hit than kovy... 10 of them have a better% while obviously 10 a similar, a have worst or a way worst %

Kovalchuk 6.6m / 76%

Ovechkin 9.5m / 77.2%

Staal 8.2m / 41.6%

Nash 7.8m / 77.2%

Lecavalier 7.7m / 77.2%

Heatley 7.5m / 59%

Gaborik 7.5m / 85%

Stamkos 7.5m / 109%

Gomez 7.3m / 30.7%

Vanek 7.1m / 113%

Spezza 7m/ 90.9%

Iginla 7m / 47%

Thornton 7m / 105%

Marleau 6.9m / 100%

Kopitar 6.8m / 104.3%

Koivu 6.7m / 59%

Datsyuk 6.7m / 86.3%

Backstrom 6.7m / 113.6%

Semin 6.7m / 47.6%

Richards 6.6m / 80%

Stastny 6.6m / 60.8%

also you have to remember that Kovy is perfect in the shootout 4/4 and we have a few wins because of it... of course there's also games we have lost because of him turning the puck over but... in term of production of course it could be better... but could also be way worst

edit: also Zach is at 54% at 6m...

Apropos of nothing, but that Gomez contract is just awesome.

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Don't read em, buckwheat.

:doh1:

Sorry gramps, but I guess I love reading your nonsensical ranting too much. You're worse than Manta at this point; his argument (which I obviously don't agree with) at least has a point behind it. You just hate the guy for..the sake of hating him? :noclue:

Not healthy

Not to stoop to your hormonal emotional level but this has to be one of the most irrelevant statistics referenced.

How is shooting % an irrelevant statistic?

Edited by Devilsfan118

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Last year he played half the season under MacLean, in which NOONE did well under and Kovalchuk openly expressed relief when he was replaced. Those few months are the basis for your "30-goal, 70-point" argument, and if you're not willing to accept that, I can't help you.

And actually, I'm not going to give fans on this board more credit than that. Most people WERE expecting 100-point seasons. Worse still is that people were expecting him to suddenly become a different player than he was in Atlanta, especially in regards to the defensive game. I'll admit that I had some hopes like that also, but you need to have realistic expectations, and most people here simply don't.

Speaking for myself here:

I NEVER expected 100-point seasons for Kovalchuk. He's never had an 100-point season, and the Devils never had someone have a 100-point season in their history...not even back in the era when 7 teams or so per season would average 4.00+ goals per game.

Yes, I did expect/hope on some level that he would become better and smarter, re: the deficiencies in his game. Lemaire seemed to be making more strides than any coach ever could in that regard, but what I feared might happen has...without Lemaire around to constantly help him out, he is showing signs of regressing into the guy who doesn't score enough (here) to offset the stupidity that rears its head far too often.

I think part of Kovy's problem is that he's never had a real mentor, except for Lemaire, and Lemaire simply wasn't around for enough of Kovy's career to make a lasting impact on him.

And one link I see being made here too often is that criticizing Kovy makes one a Parise fanboy. I've said on multiple occasions that Zach needs to get it going too.

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I think there's too much concern over Kovalchuk.. He'll be fine, just like Zach will be.. You also have remember that he's no longer on a team built around him so I fully expect his total goals to be lower in NJ than they were in ATL, and I think he will make up for it in assists and just generally drawing the D towards him to open up the ice for other guys..

Kovy needs a line with great passers to feed him the puck, and Zach needs a line with guys who can drive the net so he can do his magic in front.. Also needs guys who can get him so breakaways with nice passes.. I think Zajac fits really well with Kovy and I see Henrique developing into a great linemate for Zach

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The problem I see is that Kovy's stats need to be reversed. 4G 9A should be reversed to 9G 4A. He needs a decent RW and C to play with. Hopefully Zajac ends up on his line.

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Its pretty simple... Kovy is not scoring much because he's not really trying too... Seriously

I dont think ive ever seen Kovy take a shot when he was carrying the puck on a 2 on 1... Or when there was a player around... Hes ALWAYS looking to pass.... In atlanta he was entering the zone with speed, cutting in the middle or splitting the defenders and getting a shot.... Hes not even trying to do that anymore.... Hes getting in the zone then stop and wait for a trailling player to pass

Plus now hes playing out of position so its not helping

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Its pretty simple... Kovy is not scoring much because he's not really trying too... Seriously

I dont think ive ever seen Kovy take a shot when he was carrying the puck on a 2 on 1... Or when there was a player around... Hes ALWAYS looking to pass.... In atlanta he was entering the zone with speed, cutting in the middle or splitting the defenders and getting a shot.... Hes not even trying to do that anymore.... Hes getting in the zone then stop and wait for a trailling player to pass

Plus now hes playing out of position so its not helping

The Devils are trying to be too cute. That's always been one of the problems with the power play. Instead of getting pucks on net they try to set up the perfect scroing opportunity. It needs to get down and dirty. The highlight reel goal is cool, but the garbage goal off the rebound is where it needs to be.

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The Devils are trying to be too cute. That's always been one of the problems with the power play. Instead of getting pucks on net they try to set up the perfect scroing opportunity. It needs to get down and dirty. The highlight reel goal is cool, but the garbage goal off the rebound is where it needs to be.

Well im not talking about the powerplay im talking about their breakouts.... Before in atlanta kovy would rush with the puck and make it to the net for a shot.... Now hes not even thinking about doing it....

How many goals would kessel have now if he would be stopping with the puck when he get in the zone and wait... He got most of them going full speed to the net and snipping it... Like kovy use to do

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How is shooting % an irrelevant statistic?

Because I criticized Kovy's shooting percentage for this season, and the person responded by saying he has been better than Parise this season by giving me his career shooting percentage.

Its pretty simple... Kovy is not scoring much because he's not really trying too... Seriously

I dont think ive ever seen Kovy take a shot when he was carrying the puck on a 2 on 1... Or when there was a player around... Hes ALWAYS looking to pass.... In atlanta he was entering the zone with speed, cutting in the middle or splitting the defenders and getting a shot.... Hes not even trying to do that anymore.... Hes getting in the zone then stop and wait for a trailling player to pass

Plus now hes playing out of position so its not helping

Bingo

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Well im not talking about the powerplay im talking about their breakouts.... Before in atlanta kovy would rush with the puck and make it to the net for a shot.... Now hes not even thinking about doing it....

How many goals would kessel have now if he would be stopping with the puck when he get in the zone and wait... He got most of them going full speed to the net and snipping it... Like kovy use to do

From what I saw last season and what I've seen this season, Kovy tries to rush up the ice on his own. His linemates aren't joining him. He's pretty easy to neutralize when he tries to bring the puck into the offensive zone all by his lonesome.

A really competent Center would be able to help tremendously.

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Anyone have a clip of Parise's goal at the end of the game? I cant find it anywhere on the highlights or anything.

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Kovy will be just fine.

But I agree, you'll see him stop along the half boards and try for a pass instead of just continuing to push forward and shoot the puck. I think he needs to do that more.

Of course we need people to go into the zone with him and go to the net for a rebound or get open for a pass. If he goes in alone and gets stoned, or loses the puck, everyone will bitch about him.

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Its pretty simple... Kovy is not scoring much because he's not really trying too... Seriously

I dont think ive ever seen Kovy take a shot when he was carrying the puck on a 2 on 1... Or when there was a player around... Hes ALWAYS looking to pass.... In atlanta he was entering the zone with speed, cutting in the middle or splitting the defenders and getting a shot.... Hes not even trying to do that anymore.... Hes getting in the zone then stop and wait for a trailling player to pass

Plus now hes playing out of position so its not helping

okay now, all together: how many games did you watch of his in atlanta? because if you were seeing highlights of his, your perception is going to be completely distorted.

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okay now, all together: how many games did you watch of his in atlanta? because if you were seeing highlights of his, your perception is going to be completely distorted.

well i've seen a bunch of their games really, i have gamecenter and watching lots of random games all the time so i have a good knowledge of other teams and players, not only when they play us...

one play they were making a lot (and actually still are in winnipeg) is the winger or center bringing the puck up along the board getting in the zone and cutting through the middle, dropping or back passing the puck behind to another forward following him, then the other guy get the puck cut in the middle and either take a shot or make a pass to the forward who rushed between defenders and going to the net for a rebound or a tip-in

thats what i remember about the thrashers the most... they were allllllllllways going for that play

edit: also you dont need to be a genius to know that Kovalchuk is scoring by SHOOTING the puck... last season he had his lowest SOG total and got his lowest production ever... it all goes together, he's a sniper he need to snipe! Zach always got his goals by working hard around the net... obviously if he would change his game he wouldnt be scoring as much

Edited by SterioDesign

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1: kovalchuk was likely to have his lowest shooting total anyway because his power play time was so diminished relative to other seasons in his career. plus NJ in the 2nd half played very low event hockey, they were trying to limit the shots of their opponent more than they were going for shots themselves.

2: kovalchuk is shooting very close to his career rate, shots-wise.

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I love this picture...because of Patty :giggle:

134131375_slide.jpg

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OK, since there only seem to be two topics of discussion post-game, let's get them out of the way first (in spoiler tags because I don't want the subject I really wanna talk about get lost in the jibberjabber):

KOVALCHUK - His turnover on the PP was ridiculously bad. All defensemen know not to skate the puck in front of the net like that. You work it to the outside. Hard-around, off the glass, protect along the boards until an acceptable outlet becomes available. ANYTHING but in front of the net. That's Defenseman 101. Too bad he isn't a defenseman. (Elias tried an ill-advised no-look pass that almost went in our net, but no one talks about that. Forwards handling the puck around their own net is always dangerous, no matter how good the forward.)

He assisted on both Devils goals and basically handed one to the Isles. That still puts him up one goal in the Devils favor. This team has other players.

Parise-Henrique-Kovalchuk combined for 1G, 4A, 5P, 9 SOG and was even. The Sykora-Elias-Zubrus line we all love so much (and never mention in this thread, for some reason) had 0G, 0A, 0P, 7SOG and was even.

He's a left winger playing all his even-strength minutes on the right side and all his power-play minutes on the blue line. He, more than anyone else, needs Zajac to return. I want to see a Kovalchuk-Zajac-Zubrus line in the worst way.

And the fact that our fans booed him after he assisted on both of our goals while he's trying to wish us a Happy Thanksgiving is way more embarassing than any "Hey! You Suck!" or "Rangers Suck!" nonsense could EVER embarass us. What the hell is wrong with us?

REFS: They blew the high-stick and penalized Kovy when he called them out for it. They blew the last-second goal. They blow. But if the whole team played better, we wouldn't have been in that position.

Awful call on that non-goal, though. Just awful.

OK, now that that's out of the way, this is what I REALLY wanna talk about ...

This team is not transitioning well into DeBo's aggressive system. Defensemen are getting caught too far up ice and forwards are not covering enough. This is why we see all the breakaways and odd-man rushes. It's been painfully obvious for the past month. Either the system is flawed or the players just aren't properly grasping it yet. It's still early, so I'll give DeBo the benefit of the doubt for now. But if, by the end of December, the players still aren't grasping this, we're in for an infuriating season.

It kinda reminds me of Sutter's first season here. That year, the players flat out sucked at his system. It almost looked like they were refusing to even try. Sutter had to revert back to the prior regime's style for the remainder of the season, then installed his system a year later. The biggest difference this time around is that the guys are at least trying. The aggressiveness is there. It just isn't being executed particularly well.

At least that's what my eyes are seeing.

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1: kovalchuk was likely to have his lowest shooting total anyway because his power play time was so diminished relative to other seasons in his career. plus NJ in the 2nd half played very low event hockey, they were trying to limit the shots of their opponent more than they were going for shots themselves.

2: kovalchuk is shooting very close to his career rate, shots-wise.

yeah yeah but what are you trying to say here? you can't be saying that Kovalchuk look like a guy who's constantly trying to score and not trying to make plays

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yeah yeah but what are you trying to say here? you can't be saying that Kovalchuk look like a guy who's constantly trying to score and not trying to make plays

When Kovalchuk is 'constantly trying to score', he gets criticized. Yeah, in that Buffalo game, he was looking pass-first on the 2 on 1s he got, but he was also playing that entire game at half-speed. I haven't seen him doing that since.

If Kovalchuk is entering the zone with the puck and the defensemen are back and in good position, he should generally be looking to pass, because his speed and shot back off the defense and create good passing lanes. We've seen him generate 2 goals that way since his return from injury, one for himself and one for Adam Larsson. There isn't a player in the NHL who can consistently beat NHL defenders one on one, and Kovalchuk shouldn't be trying to do that - lately he hasn't been doing that. I also don't think that Kovalchuk with the puck should be pushing the play forward and trying to fire shots through defensemen as he is wont to try - this is also an Ovechkin specialty - but it's generally a low-percentage play especially when there's no one driving the net.

If Kovalchuk is entering the zone without the puck, he should be trying to come late either to A: draw the defense towards him or B: use the fact that his shot is so good and that he can score from the outside both on screened and unscreened shots to try to find open space at the top of the slot.

If you watch the highlight from the second Islanders game on NHL.com labeled A. Montoya save on A. Henrique, you'll see what I am talking about with Kovalchuk coming late.

He's doing both of these things much more than he was last year. And on the power play, he is generally shooting the puck when he gets an opportunity to do so.

DIG: solid post. The Devils really, really need to fix the neutral zone, both their play with and without the puck.

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i mean parise's no goal highlighted his season so far, yeah kovulchuck give aways are everywhere but who is doing better in this system, with or without zajac does debor system use a loaded 1st line, in other words split up 9 and 17 so they can compete for goals, not on the same line.

didnt mean to bring up this game again but depending on how they react this is a season turning point.

avs usually play us well.

OR

why is kovy entering the zone and holding up while parise drives the net not producing? are they even practicing this play?

Edited by lazer

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Realllllly agree with DiG's analysis of the Kovy situation.. I just don't get why he is the fans' chosen scapegoat.. Hell, he could have a season ending injury and we miss the playoff, and people will blame him for his contract as the reason we didn't get in (yup, our fans will actually berate a guy for wanting more money, because us Devils fans aren't equally fueled by money - see the billion rants over ticket prices)

The system was on fire against Buffalo 2 weeks ago and it was solid against Tampa for the first 2 periods.. It reached it's peak during the first period in Florida and came crashing down after that.. Hasn't seemed to recover since, but those 3 games the system showed how powerful it can be when the players are buying in all the way and it's running on all cylinders

If they can figure out how to consistently play to the system's potential (and in turn their own) then I can see us stringing a bunch of wins together multiple times throughout the season.. And win streaks go a looooong way to getting you in the playoffs.. It's amazing how quickly a streaking team will rise in the rankings

I'm confident everything will click.. It's a new system from a new coach who I hope is here for a long time to come

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