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Z-Man

The Kovy Conundrum

149 posts in this topic

Based on his his production since the start of the 2008 season, there's now a good even sample size for comparison:

2008-09 and 2009-10 (portion with Atlanta):

128 games, 74 goals, 75 assists, -11, 454 shots, 16.3%

2009-2010 (portion with NJ) through 2011-12:

126 games, 46 goals, 55 assists, -25, 417 shots, 11.0%

It's painfully clear that this guy is not the same player as a member of the Devils. It's like putting a square peg in a round hole. I've had some discussions/arguments with friends back home in NJ, and I hear the same things all the time, but they fail to make sense:

- "He was the only go-to guy on Atlanta, and they gave him tons of ice time": Well he's still getting that ice time, and with more skilled players. Shouldn't his production go up?

- "He's a better defensive player now": For a team that struggles to score two goals a game, shouldn't they ENCOURAGE him to take more offensive chances? Besides, how many SHG has he been directly responsible for so far? And how about that -25 since becoming a Devil?

- "He's playing out of position at right wing": Well if it's affecting him that much, then that's just stupid coaching. That also doesn't explain most of 2010-11.

- "He's trying too hard under the weight of the contract": If that's the case, then Lou/Vanderbeek grossly misjudged his character, and should've never ponied up over $11 million a year for the next 5 years starting in 2012.

Whatever the reason(s), this guy will single handledly drag this team down for the next several years. No team would ever take this contract off our hands for a guy whose goal production has basically been cut in half when comparing his Trashers years since the lockout (220 G in 367 GMS, 0.6 per game) to his Devils years (46 G in 126 GMS, 0.36 per game).

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In hindsight it was a wrong headed move. The Devils have always been about a team game. No one could ever crack 50 goals for this club, but goals were also spread out pretty evenly amongst lines. It was about team contribution. I think JVB wanted to fundamentally change the character of the team by getting a marquee offensive dynamo thus generating more in merchandise, sponsorship and television access. Basically he put bucks before the team and it backfired.

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It sounds like the title of a Big Bang Theory episode, The Kovalchuk Conundrum.

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Nobody talk about waste of money in the second half of last season....

So my words is Kovalchuk is our man and yes he is better defensively.

He qill get around 80 points and around 40 every year he will play LW

So yes this is stupid coaching as you mentions (WTF RW Kovy)

It simple for me ΒΈ

ALl these stats dont count becaquse we really suck with mclean!

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I still don't think he's being used correctly. He never belonged on the point for the power play and was being used there because of our utter lack of scoring defensemen. Additionally, a lot of Kovalchuk's success in Atlanta was based around having an excellent center to get him the puck. We're down two top centers, so I'd like to see how Kovalchuk performs when he has Travis Zajac centering him again. Those two had pretty great chemistry for a while when no one else on this team was scoring.

I'm reserving judgment. I don't see him dogging it on the ice, so at least he's not Langenbrunnering it. And his shot is the best on the team still, even if he's paying some kind of karmic penance for that contract he signed.

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Amen, he needs to be on the sideboards, that shot from the circle is lethal

This. Enough of the 'Kovalchuk on the point' bullsh!t. Put him at the top of the left circle and let him blast one timers.

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He's played around 10% of the games he will in his career for the Devils. Can we wait a little while before we scream "100 million dollar bust"? Financially, maybe it wasn't the best move the Devils have ever made. But for a player of his caliber at his cap hit, it's tough to call it a salary-cap-killing contract and a detriment to the team.

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It's painfully clear that this guy is not the same player as a member of the Devils. It's like putting a square peg in a round hole. I've had some discussions/arguments with friends back home in NJ, and I hear the same things all the time, but they fail to make sense:

- "He's playing out of position at right wing": Well if it's affecting him that much, then that's just stupid coaching. That also doesn't explain most of 2010-11.

Whatever the reason(s), this guy will single handledly drag this team down for the next several years. No team would ever take this contract off our hands for a guy whose goal production has basically been cut in half when comparing his Trashers years since the lockout (220 G in 367 GMS, 0.6 per game) to his Devils years (46 G in 126 GMS, 0.36 per game).

Can't even begin to describe how flawed your logic is. You seriously think the exact point in time this guy signed a contract with NJ, is the same exact time he passed his peak? He's been a point pr game guy his entire NHL career, and yet you're pointing the finger at him for not being able to continue his production in Jersey? Never struck you that something about the way the Devs are playing, the way the team is built/coached, his role on the ice, and/or quality of his new teammates could be inhibiting his potential in any way?

Let's at at least give him a shot at LEFT WING with an actual NHL quality center a few months before we give up on him. Oh wait, that actually happened the second half of last season! Incidentally, Kovy was completely awesome and by far and away our best player.

Kovy for a $6,67M cap hit is nothing short of a steal in this league. If you can't see that I cant really help you.

Edited by njdevsftw
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You don't get the chance to sign an elite player of his caliber very often, especially for a long time at a good cap hit. If we passed on the opportunity, everyone would scream about how Lou never gives out money to quality players.

The guy scored hundreds of points on the LEFT WING on a sh!tty Atlanta team. Why would we put him on the RW? The man plays a fast game and has a deadly accurate shot...why is he on the point? Why are the no players in front of the net?

What the fvck has Parise done for me lately? Why won't you complain about the 6 million dollar man at all?

GET A fvckING GRIP.

Edited by adam85491
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Anyone who continuously asks people to kill themselves or says for people to die has no business on this message board regardless of the argument being discussed, stupid or not.

Enough is enough.

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Anyone who continuously asks people to kill themselves or says for people to die has no business on this message board regardless of the argument being discussed, stupid or not.

Enough is enough.

I'm not asking anyone to do anything, but if someone is seriously that gloomy over something, then I hope they find peace in their life or come to some sort of professional help.

If you're gonna point fingers. At least point them in the right place. Too much to ask?

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lol at comparing Parise to Kovy. Parise may not be what he was offensively either, but at least he doesn't give up a goal for every one he scores with stupidity. Kovy gives up like three out of stupidity for every one he contributes to.

Kovy for a $6,67M cap hit is nothing short of a steal in this league. If you can't see that I cant really help you.

The Kovy of Atlanta might have been a steal, but the Kovy here has been massively overpaid, even at $6.67 million. Unless you think a great half a season with no pressure on him and a coach that isn't coming back is worth two full seasons worth of salary. I shudder to think of the boos he's gonna get NOW.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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The Kovy here isn't the same as the Kovy in Atlanta. Why? Are you saying he suddenly forgot to play hockey? No, that's retarded. He is not on the correct side, and our style of play, combined with the lack of transition game from the defense, and remembering the abortion of a power play, is all factoring in to his less than desirable play.

Parise hasn't done sh!t. Don't deny it. If you bitch about Kovy, you better be bitching about Parise.

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You don't get the chance to sign an elite player of his caliber very often, especially for a long time at a good cap hit. If we passed on the opportunity, everyone would scream about how Lou never gives out money to quality players.

The guy scored hundreds of points on the LEFT WING on a sh!tty Atlanta team. Why would we put him on the RW? The man plays a fast game and has a deadly accurate shot...why is he on the point? Why are the no players in front of the net?

What the fvck has Parise done for me lately? Why won't you complain about the 6 million dollar man at all?

GET A fvckING GRIP.

Thank you! Thank you! This what I have been saying the last 6-10 games...why the fvck do you have him back checking and playing setup man, build the team around your top core guys.

We all know Kovy can bury it in the net...tell him to drive to the net or rip it from the angles, hell...split the fvcking lines so he can run the pace of his own line and leave ZP on the first line.

Edited by Devlin
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Thank you! Thank you! This what I have been saying the last 6-10 games...why the fvck do you have him back checking and playing setup man, build the team around your top core guys.

We all know Kovy can bury it in the net...tell him to drive to the net or rip it from the angles, hell...split the fvcking lines so he can run the pace of his own line and leave ZP on the first line.

I completely agree. Look at his time in Atlanta. He never stopped and waited for people to catch up. He went in with a full head of steam and either scored or generated a rebound that someone was around to tap in. And as far as the PP, it's bad enough, but to make things worse we have him on the point for two minutes, it makes no sense.

People would cry foul in an instant if Parise was put on the RW and asked to change his game entirely. But yet when Kovy has to go through it (and has been a team player about it) it's his fault it's not working out.

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He gets paid $11M next season. Team has money problems and is operating at a budget (let's say $60M).

It doesn't matter what his cap hit is anymore because they're on an internal cap. So this year's $60M cap budget would be more like a $55M cap budget next year if the same amount of money is allocated.

Basically the purpose of signing him to that contract has been defeated by the team's debt issues. Now his weird offset contract years HURT the team instead of helping them. If he was on a flatter deal they'd have more internal cap space to spend.

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He gets paid $11M next season. Team has money problems and is operating at a budget (let's say $60M).

It doesn't matter what his cap hit is anymore because they're on an internal cap. So this year's $60M cap budget would be more like a $55M cap budget next year if the same amount of money is allocated.

Basically the purpose of signing him to that contract has been defeated by the team's debt issues. Now his weird offset contract years HURT the team instead of helping them. If he was on a flatter deal they'd have more internal cap space to spend.

You don't know that the team operates on an internal cap. You don't know anything about the finances. I'm sorry but this invalidates your entire post.

You could be totally right. Or you could be totally wrong. Who knows? Unless you're JVB or a higherup for the organisation then you just don't have the credibility to be making those statements.

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You don't know that the team operates on an internal cap. You don't know anything about the finances. I'm sorry but this invalidates your entire post.

You could be totally right. Or you could be totally wrong. Who knows? Unless you're JVB or a higherup for the organisation then you just don't have the credibility to be making those statements.

They spent $60M this year. I know that. So $60M - $4.5M (difference between Kovy's cap hit and salary). You better HOPE they spend $60M next year, because otherwise they'll be operating at the cap floor.

I should have understood this was too complicated for you to understand. But then again, that's why I didn't quote you.

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They spent $60M this year. I know that. So $60M - $4.5M (difference between Kovy's cap hit and salary). You better HOPE they spend $60M next year, because otherwise they'll be operating at the cap floor.

I should have understood this was too complicated for you to understand. But then again, that's why I didn't quote you.

It's nice to have some wiggle room. You know...maybe to add a piece to the puzzle at some point, instead of icing 3/4s of a team like we did last year.

The floor is gonna be 60 million next year? Yeah, okay.

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Max you're talking completely out of your ass with this internal cap stuff.. You know nothing and are running with assumptions in gobbledygook post.. No offense to PK but it sounds like one of her long winded tangents that you just don't care to finish

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Everyone is saying "look at his time in Atlanta"...THEY NEVER WON A PLAYOFF GAME WITH KOVY!!! The Devils should change him from what he was then, it's just incredibly difficult to do. I don't want the Kovy from Atlanta and I certainly don't want him in his current state. These turnovers that lead to goals have a HUGE negative impact on this team. Frankly it cancels out all he does (potentially) on the offensive end. I don't want a high risk high flying offensive player; I WANT A STANLEY CUP. He has all the ability in the world and the best case scenario is he learns how to play a well rounded team game and capitalizes on his immense potential. Worst case scenario is he doesn't learn and we are stuck with this for the next decade (I do agree that his cap hit is NOT a team killer by any means, but his play has been).

And right now with my irrational emotions after watching these last few games I'd LOVE to see him in the KHL.

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Max you're talking completely out of your ass with this internal cap stuff.. You know nothing and are running with assumptions in gobbledygook post.. No offense to PK but it sounds like one of her long winded tangents that you just don't care to finish

Get back to me next year. Do you think they're going to carry a $70M (max cap + Kovy's overage in pay vs. his cap hit) payroll next year? If not, maybe you're the one that should shut up. Being a superfan doesn't mean you understand hockey business at all.

Obviously what they planned with this contract isn't going to pan out. It is going to end up being an hinderance, in that if they spend $60M, their actual cap hit will be $55M, if they spend $55M, their actual cap hit will be near the floor.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out. If it sounds like gobbledygook, it's because you can't understand basic math and how these "whacky" contracts are supposed to work in optimal conditions. The Devils are not operating under optimal conditions, it would be better for them next year for him to be getting paid $8.5M with an $8.5M cap hit.

Edited by maxpower

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The problem is that this topic would be about anyone earing this amount of money. Look at Parise. Hes not producing. He choked on a pretty much open net tonight.

Fact is, if you want the contract, you fvcking earn it. Kovy just isnt earning it.

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I always figured they planned having the first two years of real money being at $6 million precisely because they anticipated short-term cash flow problems. Perhaps they just underestimated how long those short-term cash flow problems would actually last.

I get what max is saying but any speculation about the payroll next year is an assumption. Everything surrounding ownership is a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma right now. You can believe the bottom's about to fall out, you can believe that everything's rosy like Colin does, either way we don't know what the payroll's going to be next year, especially considering all the contracts including Zach that are likely to come off the books. They could be in a position where they have the money to spend to the cap but nobody to spend it on.

The problem is that this topic would be about anyone earing this amount of money. Look at Parise. Hes not producing. He choked on a pretty much open net tonight.

Zach can struggle offensively but even when he's not producing he isn't usually a net negative like the other guy. The other guy can score one goal and give up two, and people will clap and cheer for him scoring the goal but what good does that do if he gives up two with stupidity?

Edited by NJDevs4978

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