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GDT: Rangers vs. Devils

538 posts in this topic

I love the continuous "Rangers are for real" comments. They put up 21 shots tonight and got 4 goals. Lundqvist let in 1 out of 31 shots. This is the story of their season. There is no amazingly deep team there that is a true contender. What you have is a team that puts up very few shots on goals every night, gets lots of goals, and lets in very few. Don't you people understand that the FUNDAMENTALS of that team are very soft? Once their abnormally high scoring percentage goes down, or their abnormally high save percentage goes down, or both, you'll all be asking yourselves "what happened to the Rangers?"

They are not "for real" based on tonight, they are "for real" based on their development over the past two years.

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Like I said, we are all frustrated about losing. But if your way of taking out frustration is to smugly brag to the other posters about how right you were about us not winning/one of our players not playing well, then it's on you. That's just not something a real fan says in my mind.

People like you and others always see games as win/win. If we win, you celebrate like everyone else. If we lose, you "celebrate" by rubbing it in other fans' faces that you "saw this coming".

I do have to admit that these types of posters (more recent in the last years) are what truly makes this place maddening.

Win 3 games in a row and we're a deadline day piece from becoming a contendor....

Lose one game to a team we care about, or have a better record than, and we are a franchise on the decline...

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

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Just got back from the game. Man, that sucked, having to hear those Blueballs fans singing and talking sh!t once they got the lead and thru the rest of the game.

I thought we outplayed them, for the most part, but I haven't read the thread yet. What's the consensus on why we lost?

Pretty much sums it up, 95.

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I proudly state that I am a Kovalchuk basher and come on here when he does good and bad. Call me what you want, but you cannot deny the facts.

1. Kovalchuk is NOT a team player. He wants the puck and at times it is wrong for him to have it, yet he continues to hold onto it.

2. His contract has severly handicapped this team which is equally the fault of him (for asking for it) and the team for giving it to him. This TEAM used to be about let's build the best team in the league through hard-work and solid defensive mindset. I've NEVER seen a team in hockey history who doesn't have a strong defense commitment win a championship.

3. The turn-overs he gives to the other team are almost comical and predictable.

4. A true "superstar" brings players to the next level by making his teammates around him better. Sometimes Kovalchuk is able to get them the puck, but he hasn't really made them better players by doing so like others like Toews, Hossa, Kopitar, Selanne, Yzerman, Shanahan, and even Mario Lemieux who I hate.

5. The plus/minus is a flawed stat, but there are ONLY so many coincidental "opps I just go on the ice they scored" moments. Let's go through last year and this year and see exactly how many of those actually took place and subtract that number from his total points. What will we see?

Do I chuckle when Kovalchuk turns over the puck and the Devils give up a goal. Absolutely. There is nothing left to do. I'm not here to say I know it all, but with this guy I have been spot on. I find the Devils almost difficult to watch and cheer for because of the direction they have gone in. I'm not saying change is wrong, but this change appears to be on a downward spiral.

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I do have to admit that these types of posters (more recent in the last years) are what truly makes this place maddening.

Win 3 games in a row and we're a deadline day piece from becoming a contendor....

Lose one game to a team we care about, or have a better record than, and we are a franchise on the decline...

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I don't think anyone acts like this outside of MantaRay and he's the resident Debbie Downer. Now if you'll excuse me, Teen Mom 2 is on.

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Yeah... you totally didn't get my point. This isn't about Marty. This is about the negative posters who come on here to "celebrate" our losses by pointing out how right they were and how all the other posters are idiots for supporting our players good times and bad. Whether its Marty or Kovy bashers, it's the same sh!t. Wait for a game when they don't play well and come on NJDevs to post about how they "saw this coming" or say things like "everyone was laughing at me when I said this would happen yesterday". Nobody cares about how long ago you "called" that Marty was declining. As far as I can tell, nobody is even arguing the fact that Marty isn't as good as he used to be. The difference is some of us try and support our players, especially our aging all-time great players, even if we know they aren't what they used to be. Other people just bash away and love it when the player struggles, because it "proves" they're right.

Perfect post :cheers: Totally agree with this.. He's a Devils legend and his career is ending so I'm happy to see him in what is probably his last season

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The Rangers fans showing up in our building is frustrating, but at least they are pumping money into the team. If they didn't show up then who would and would you really believe Kevin Clark's inflated number?

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Yeah... you totally didn't get my point. This isn't about Marty. This is about the negative posters who come on here to "celebrate" our losses by pointing out how right they were and how all the other posters are idiots for supporting our players good times and bad. Whether its Marty or Kovy bashers, it's the same sh!t. Wait for a game when they don't play well and come on NJDevs to post about how they "saw this coming" or say things like "everyone was laughing at me when I said this would happen yesterday". Nobody cares about how long ago you "called" that Marty was declining. As far as I can tell, nobody is even arguing the fact that Marty isn't as good as he used to be. The difference is some of us try and support our players, especially our aging all-time great players, even if we know they aren't what they used to be. Other people just bash away and love it when the player struggles, because it "proves" they're right.

I proudly state that I am a Kovalchuk basher and come on here when he does good and bad. Call me what you want, but you cannot deny the facts.

1. Kovalchuk is NOT a team player. He wants the puck and at times it is wrong for him to have it, yet he continues to hold onto it.

2. His contract has severly handicapped this team which is equally the fault of him (for asking for it) and the team for giving it to him. This TEAM used to be about let's build the best team in the league through hard-work and solid defensive mindset. I've NEVER seen a team in hockey history who doesn't have a strong defense commitment win a championship.

3. The turn-overs he gives to the other team are almost comical and predictable.

4. A true "superstar" brings players to the next level by making his teammates around him better. Sometimes Kovalchuk is able to get them the puck, but he hasn't really made them better players by doing so like others like Toews, Hossa, Kopitar, Selanne, Yzerman, Shanahan, and even Mario Lemieux who I hate.

5. The plus/minus is a flawed stat, but there are ONLY so many coincidental "opps I just go on the ice they scored" moments. Let's go through last year and this year and see exactly how many of those actually took place and subtract that number from his total points. What will we see?

Do I chuckle when Kovalchuk turns over the puck and the Devils give up a goal. Absolutely. There is nothing left to do. I'm not here to say I know it all, but with this guy I have been spot on. I find the Devils almost difficult to watch and cheer for because of the direction they have gone in. I'm not saying change is wrong, but this change appears to be on a downward spiral.

lol right on cue.

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I've never seen more Rangers fans at a game, and I've never experienced them being that bad.. Up by me in 226/227 they were worse than Philly fans in Philly.. And Devils fans couldn't say anything they just kept shouting sh!t

I know Devils fans like to take the high road but honestly I would have preferred to punch him in the face

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lol right on cue.

I am no different than those who disliked Langenbrunner and wanted him gone. I am just in slowly growing minority.

Please feel free to rip apart the facts that have been presented to you. What did I say that was such an attack on Kovalchuk, the Devils, or any specific fan. Did I call someone a 'douche', did I say something about your mother, or did I act inappropriately other than stating issues you do not agree on? I welcome the sound advise of someone who is so spiritually in check and whose words are worshipped by the masses!

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I proudly state that I am a Kovalchuk basher and come on here when he does good and bad. Call me what you want, but you cannot deny the facts.

1. Kovalchuk is NOT a team player. He wants the puck and at times it is wrong for him to have it, yet he continues to hold onto it.

Not true. If anything he doesn't shoot enough and passes too much.

2. His contract has severly handicapped this team which is equally the fault of him (for asking for it) and the team for giving it to him. This TEAM used to be about let's build the best team in the league through hard-work and solid defensive mindset. I've NEVER seen a team in hockey history who doesn't have a strong defense commitment win a championship.

Not true. His 6.66m a year cap hit is more than manageable.

3. The turn-overs he gives to the other team are almost comical and predictable.

Yes, its ridiculous and has to stop.

4. A true "superstar" brings players to the next level by making his teammates around him better. Sometimes Kovalchuk is able to get them the puck, but he hasn't really made them better players by doing so like others like Toews, Hossa, Kopitar, Selanne, Yzerman, Shanahan, and even Mario Lemieux who I hate.

Not true. It always depends on the makeup of the entire team. The Rangers brought in superstars for years and failed. This team has slowly become a bad team over a period of years. And already we are not even bad anymore after sucking last year. The next couple years we will develop and become good again. You can't expect any player to just come in and turn the team around instantly. You are not the only one guilty of this, we all are.

5. The plus/minus is a flawed stat, but there are ONLY so many coincidental "opps I just go on the ice they scored" moments. Let's go through last year and this year and see exactly how many of those actually took place and subtract that number from his total points. What will we see?

?????? Nothing. This means nothing...

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include the team with the rest of jersey and i promise that will stop along with the all the wannabes

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Nobody cares about how long ago you "called" that Marty was declining. As far as I can tell, nobody is even arguing the fact that Marty isn't as good as he used to be. The difference is some of us try and support our players, especially our aging all-time great players, even if we know they aren't what they used to be. Other people just bash away and love it when the player struggles, because it "proves" they're right.

ooooh I missed this, this says it right.

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I proudly state that I am a Kovalchuk basher and come on here when he does good and bad. Call me what you want, but you cannot deny the facts.

1. Kovalchuk is NOT a team player. He wants the puck and at times it is wrong for him to have it, yet he continues to hold onto it.

2. His contract has severly handicapped this team which is equally the fault of him (for asking for it) and the team for giving it to him. This TEAM used to be about let's build the best team in the league through hard-work and solid defensive mindset. I've NEVER seen a team in hockey history who doesn't have a strong defense commitment win a championship.

3. The turn-overs he gives to the other team are almost comical and predictable.

4. A true "superstar" brings players to the next level by making his teammates around him better. Sometimes Kovalchuk is able to get them the puck, but he hasn't really made them better players by doing so like others like Toews, Hossa, Kopitar, Selanne, Yzerman, Shanahan, and even Mario Lemieux who I hate.

5. The plus/minus is a flawed stat, but there are ONLY so many coincidental "opps I just go on the ice they scored" moments. Let's go through last year and this year and see exactly how many of those actually took place and subtract that number from his total points. What will we see?

Do I chuckle when Kovalchuk turns over the puck and the Devils give up a goal. Absolutely. There is nothing left to do. I'm not here to say I know it all, but with this guy I have been spot on. I find the Devils almost difficult to watch and cheer for because of the direction they have gone in. I'm not saying change is wrong, but this change appears to be on a downward spiral.

I'm quite critical of Kovy but I thought he had one of his best games as a Devil tonight.

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The Marty/Moose tandum needs to go. We either need to begin easing one of our prospects into the NHL or go out and find a third goalie. like Dwayne Roloson;)

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chorske i've already rebutted those points the last time you made them. just go read that post, since your post hasn't changed at all, neither has mine. but i'll give you the cliffs notes:

1. kovalchuk is at the very least a break even player

2. if this contract hamstrings the devils from making moves, that's ownership's fault - you don't sign a deal like this unless you are going to be a cap team, otherwise it's idiotic.

3. kovalchuk created a billion chances tonight, so bashing him is ridiculous after tonight's game

4. he's definitely playing way more of a team game - he is not trying to beat players 1 on 1 hardly at all anymore.

Edited by Triumph

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All I have to say is why does everyone need to get all hell-bent over if the Rangers are for real or not. Maybe they are. Maybe they aren't. We'll find out soon enough. I know they are the biggest rivals of the team's but I think some of you care about them losing almost as much as this team winning.

The difference tonight, like many of the games between the two, was that Lundqvist played better than Brodeur. The Devils played a pretty damn good game, but they have a better goalie. Simple as that.

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Not true. If anything he doesn't shoot enough and passes too much.

I beg to differ given the shots he's taken that FLY around the net wide. I have seen some games where shots counted are way off and some where they on top of things. I guess it is as flawed as the +/-.

Not true. His 6.66m a year cap hit is more than manageable.

I'm not seeing where you state that his cap hit will allow Parise to resign, allow Elias to play another season, allow us to sign a SOLID goaltender. Granted these things are the future, but how can you say it is manageable with no facts of HOW it is manageable. HOw close to the cap are they when they are able to resign Parise and given what has happened thus far, will he return?

Yes, its ridiculous and has to stop.

THANK YOU. I have my doubts that it will ever stop or be managed. Hopefully the team will suprise me.

Not true. It always depends on the makeup of the entire team. The Rangers brought in superstars for years and failed. This team has slowly become a bad team over a period of years. And already we are not even bad anymore after sucking last year. The next couple years we will develop and become good again. You can't expect any player to just come in and turn the team around instantly. You are not the only one guilty of this, we all are.

How would you define the rest of the team? Are they defensively able to counter-act the defensively liablility he has this year and last year? I'm not sure what crystal ball of the future you are looking at, but there are not concrete facts, only speculation and hope. Let's remember the gems named "FOSTER" that were drafted and never panned out. Parise was awesome, but it is chance.

The Rangers brought in older players (Jagr, Shanahan, Gretzky, and that second go with Mark Messier). Richards is a good pick-up and always was. I had hoped the Devils would have signed him. He would've made a better fit than Kovalchuk or he might have helped Kovalchuk and vise-versa, but who would've gone to get him with Kovalchuk?

?????? Nothing. This means nothing...

I don't understand. Everything means something. Kovalchuk is on the ice for a LOT of goals, granted he is on the ice a lot period, but the scoring he provides versus the scoring that happens when he is on the ice is not a positive number most times.

This can be fixed by giving him a defensive player to play on that line that we eiher don't have or haven't utilized or by NOT having him on the team to commit those horrible turn-overs. Is the "chance" of him scoring worthy of the all the turn-overs and goals he gives up? I say "NO", the stats say so too.

Well 1 out of 4 isn't too bad.

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But....why should a member be segregated and finger pointed at because they are "right" or they "called it" when there is FACT involved? If fact is involved, how can someone be wrong? There are people that i take as more credible in opinion then others, but if they are right they are right.

What makes a member any less credible then the fan who can't see past poor play, declining skills or any other quality that makes that player less desireable to the other member?

It seems that being a fan takes precedent over fact. Fact is you can cheer, support and back something all you want, however you have to accept the cruel reality when it's presented to you. This team has alot of cruel realities awaiting. I hate it as much as anyone, and i hate having to discuss and admit alot of things about a team and players i love, but it is what it is right now.

I don't think anybody is seriously denying that Brodeur is declining. It's just that some people don't take as much pleasure in constantly pointing it out as others.

Edited by iamtheprodigy

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Kovy isn't totally responsible for the SHG situation. That is Oates fault for putting a defensively weak player on the point and not having anyone back in the neutral zone on the PP

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chorske i've already rebutted those points the last time you made them. just go read that post, since your post hasn't changed at all, neither has mine. but i'll give you the cliffs notes:

1. kovalchuk is at the very least a break even player

2. if this contract hamstrings the devils from making moves, that's ownership's fault - you don't sign a deal like this unless you are going to be a cap team, otherwise it's idiotic.

3. kovalchuk created a billion chances tonight, so bashing him is ridiculous after tonight's game

4. he's definitely playing way more of a team game - he is not trying to beat players 1 on 1 hardly at all anymore.

Funny thing is I AGREE with everything you said. The first point is the only one I think need changed to:

1. kovalchuk is at the very best a break even player.

IF you said that then I would agree 100% with you. The return on that investment is not worth it. Subtract the goals he's on the ice for (although not all are his fault) and you are left with a third line player scoring 10-15 goals and have the same number of assists at a 6 million dollar cap hit. I realize not every year/game will you be a +, but his entire career has been a NEGATIVE save for two times. IF that isn't a factual trend than what is?

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Kovy isn't totally responsible for the SHG situation. That is Oates fault for putting a defensively weak player on the point and not having anyone back in the neutral zone on the PP

Fair enough and I agree. I just see a guy who works hard offensively and "coasts" a lot defensively. Not everyone is Parise, Madden, Pando, or solid defensively, but there are many times when he could work harder when he makes errors.

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Funny thing is I AGREE with everything you said. The first point is the only one I think need changed to:

1. kovalchuk is at the very best a break even player.

IF you said that then I would agree 100% with you. The return on that investment is not worth it. Subtract the goals he's on the ice for (although not all are his fault) and you are left with a third line player scoring 10-15 goals and have the same number of assists at a 6 million dollar cap hit. I realize not every year/game will you be a +, but his entire career has been a NEGATIVE save for two times. IF that isn't a factual trend than what is?

+/- is an idiotic stat. It counts short handed goals - why? Why that and not power play goals? Why does it count goals scored into an empty net? Let's say the Devils think that Kovalchuk should never be out late in games when his team is ahead and the opponent's goalie is pulled, but should always be out when his team is behind and his own goalie is pulled. (Incidentally this isn't a bad idea but I think Lemaire and Deboer have used Kovalchuk with an opponent's net empty). That's going to cost him minuses - thus far, Kovalchuk is -3 on the year in all empty net situations. Kovalchuk rarely kills penalties but he's out for the full 2 minutes on the power play. That's going to cost him minuses, whether or not he's Nick Lidstrom or who he is, he'll rack up minuses.

It's funny you mention Richards, who's won a Stanley Cup and won 3 other playoff rounds besides, and guess what - his career plus minus stinks. Even with the Broadway Blueskirts poised for their 2nd Stanley Cup in the last 70 years, he's a minus player this season. You know why? Because he's a rotten defensive player, and if his name were Brad Richardsov, people would actually notice that.

Edited by Triumph

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i cant get past a 1 goal game

it took three trys to get the one

the finger points at marty :moose:

Edited by lazer

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