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dmon2010

Devils $80 Million Debt

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You know... keep in mind that Vanderbeek and pretty much every other sports owner in North America are doing funny things with their books these days. Forbes and the Star-Ledger just a coupe of weeks ago were talking about the Prudential Center making something like $180 million per year in profits or some such thing. So, the arena (who's profits are tax free I think) is making tons of profit, while the team (which has to pay somewhat exorbitant state and federal taxes) is loosing some money... it's always amazing how that works out.

I'm not saying we should ignore this stuff or bury our heads in the sand, but I think that it should always be taken with a grain of salt. What's-his-name from Brick is definitely trying to get out of the partnership, but so what? The way I see it he accomplished his goals in getting the team to move to Newark. He has other priorities (including development around the Prudential Center), and apparently needs liquidity, so it's actually better for the team in the long run if he does divest.

Of course, I say all this now and then watch, in 6 months it'll turn out that the Prudential center is actually loosing money too, and the team really is folding. :rolleyes:

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ps.: Keep in mind that all of this is coming from Josh Kosman from the NY Post, as well. He broke the original story, and this is a follow up. Not exactly the most trustworthy source, especially about financial news. I'm sure that something is going on, but it's likely not exactly what Koseman is reporting.

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Another wonderful article on the state of the Devils financial situation. Yet, we are all supposed to see this as nothing and all is well. Yeah right :rolleyes:

Edited by DevsMan84

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I think I remember reading that the Wendy's guy was interested in the Devils? If I'm not mistaken it was somewhere in these forums, but I'm not sure whatever came of it...

Edited by dmon2010

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I think I remember reading that the Wendy's guy was interested in the Devils? If I'm not mistaken it was somewhere in these forums, but I'm not sure whatever came of it...

It was just speculation

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Another wonderful article on the state of the Devils financial situation. Yet, we are all supposed to see this as nothing and all is call. Yeah right :rolleyes:

You know what people will say...it's the Post (who was right about Sutter leaving and Kovy's contract), or it's someone with an agenda as if that automatically makes something untrue. The Devils said the Post was wrong, wonderful...the Mets lied about their finances for two years, look how well that's going.

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I think I remember reading that the Wendy's guy was interested in the Devils? If I'm not mistaken it was somewhere in these forums, but I'm not sure whatever came of it...

It was just speculation

And, he publicly denied it. I forget his name or I'd look it up (and the Post started the rumor that he was interested as well, by the way). But that guy has been involved with hockey for years, from the outside. But, he's never gotten directly involved. I think that the last time was about Ottawa, if I remember correctly.

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You know what people will say...it's the Post (who was right about Sutter leaving and Kovy's contract), or it's someone with an agenda as if that automatically makes something untrue. The Devils said the Post was wrong, wonderful...the Mets lied about their finances for two years, look how well that's going.

Exactly and if the Post was posting stories that are completely untrue, then JVB and company would have unleased their lawyers on the Post. Since this has not happened, even if the Post writer has some of agenda against the Devils, there still remains some truth to his article.

Like the old saying "when there is smoke, there is fire"

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Who owns the Rock? the city or Vandy? is this 80 mil part of the original 100 mil promised?

hard to tell whats really going on

can we get fannie or freddie to help us out LOL

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Exactly and if the Post was posting stories that are completely untrue, then JVB and company would have unleased their lawyers on the Post.

...not necessarily.

I mean, yea, if it were utterly fabricated he might. Maybe.

But consider the fact that sports teams really value their privacy (for whatever reason), historically. I wouldn't be surprised if they let something slide with nothing more than public denials. Especially something from the NY Post (proud publishers of Page Six that they are, you know?).

Like I said, I'm sure that something is going on, but it's likely not exactly what Koseman is reporting.

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Exactly and if the Post was posting stories that are completely untrue, then JVB and company would have unleased their lawyers on the Post. Since this has not happened, even if the Post writer has some of agenda against the Devils, there still remains some truth to his article.

Like the old saying "when there is smoke, there is fire"

It is unlikely that any sports team, or its owner, would sue a newspaper for defamation and/or libel. In a case such as this, the team/owner would have to publically disclose its finanical records in order to prevail on its cause of action vs. the paper. There is NO way any team/owner would ever do that. Therefore, even if this story is total BS (which it likely isn't), they still wouldn't sue, unless the team was owned by Donald Trump who makes money solely because people think he has money.

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I don't believe that the league would allow the Devils to securitize their payments from MSG. For one, that's a huge chunk of revenue for the Devils down the road that they wouldn't have - if Vanderbeek has to sell the team anyway, that's a giant negative on the balance sheet that there would be no TV revenue for many years to come. Two, I imagine it would play havoc with what's considered Hockey Related Revenue in the CBA.

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I believe they should be trying to bring in a minority investor that would take a minority stake in the team, but a majority stake in Devils holding co. that operates and takes the reveneues from the Arena. I know JVB would hate to relinquish control of either entity, but his options are becoming more and more limited as the months pass.

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I don't believe that the league would allow the Devils to securitize their payments from MSG. For one, that's a huge chunk of revenue for the Devils down the road that they wouldn't have - if Vanderbeek has to sell the team anyway, that's a giant negative on the balance sheet that there would be no TV revenue for many years to come. Two, I imagine it would play havoc with what's considered Hockey Related Revenue in the CBA.

The MSG thing strikes me as pure speculation, regardless. It's like a trade rumor, or something...

Honestly, I hope that the Devils end up on YES in a couple of years anyway. But, that's a whole different topic.

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I don't believe that the league would allow the Devils to securitize their payments from MSG. For one, that's a huge chunk of revenue for the Devils down the road that they wouldn't have - if Vanderbeek has to sell the team anyway, that's a giant negative on the balance sheet that there would be no TV revenue for many years to come. Two, I imagine it would play havoc with what's considered Hockey Related Revenue in the CBA.

I don't think it would make hockey related revenue any more difficult than it already is. The TV deal would still be credited as a yearly revenue at the same amount as always, regardless if the team had securitized it or not.

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The MSG thing strikes me as pure speculation, regardless. It's like a trade rumor, or something...

Honestly, I hope that the Devils end up on YES in a couple of years anyway. But, that's a whole different topic.

The Devils aren't leaving Fox Sports - the TV deal is ridiculously lucrative - that's why JVB is trying to get a loan against the guaranteed revenue. it's worth hundreds of millions (i want to say $15MM/year for 20 years but I can't remember exactly).

Edited by sundstrom

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I think the story has a lot of truth to it and seems to line up with things that Forbes has been saying for a while as well. Pure and simple, it seems the devils are over leveraged and struggling to find a minority partner or way to pay down the debt to bring them back to a operable cash flow level. I like JVB as an owner but I think he is probably in over his head. Regardless this doesn't mean the team moves it just means that we might loose out on free agents like Parise while it all has to get worked out.

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The Devils aren't leaving Fox Sports - the TV deal is ridiculously lucrative - that's why JVB is trying to get a loan against the guaranteed revenue. it's worth hundreds of millions (i want to say $15MM/year for 20 years but I can't remember exactly).

It doesnt sound good for JVB, if they are having trouble securing 80 mil with 100+ mil in equity. the money must be leaking out of this team now,

people can say that the rock is financially healthy and it probally is, but how much non-hockey revenue makes it to the Devils? whats AEGs cut? whats the city's cut? sounds like the Devils and JVB have to sink or swim in a smaller revenue pie than first thought

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I think my greatest fear of the situation is that it's a bankruptcy and it takes forever to get a new owner. I can deal with a season in financial turmoil but I would hate to see the team gutted by the league or out of necessity as I have clearly been spoiled.

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I think the story has a lot of truth to it and seems to line up with things that Forbes has been saying for a while as well. Pure and simple, it seems the devils are over leveraged and struggling to find a minority partner or way to pay down the debt to bring them back to a operable cash flow level. I like JVB as an owner but I think he is probably in over his head. Regardless this doesn't mean the team moves it just means that we might loose out on free agents like Parise while it all has to get worked out.

I'd be careful about assigning "a lot of truth to it" to any of this, based on Forbes backing up the Post. Everything that Forbes is getting on this is coming straight from the Post already, so it's a circular reference.

Like Chuck the Duck talked about above, team owners are extremely secretive about their financial states, to the point of paranoia. I understand and appreciate the "where there's smoke theirs usually fire" thing, but everything about this can be attributed to a single reporter (Josh Kosman). Yea, it's being regurgitated by a handful of other outlets, but it's still all from a single source (and Kosman refuses to reveal his source, like it's Deep Throat or something :rolleyes: ). So... yea, grain of salt.

I have yet to see or hear about anything having to do with payroll, so my level of caring about this is minimal. I'm keeping an eye out about it, like everyone else, but other than that I refuse to worry about it.

Oh, and of course the MSG deal is worth millions. It'd probably be worth more on YES, since the Devils would be more independent of the Rags. Plus, there's already an historical association between the Devils and YankeeNets, so it'd kinda make sense to me. But that's all my own dreaming about what I'd like, not anything substantive. At least the Devils aren't with SportsChannel any longer.

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Devils are winning the Cup this year.

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Devils are winning the Cup this year.

then packing up and moving to..........

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Oh stop. The Devils aren't moving. They've got a new arena, fer cryin' out loud!

More importantly, where the heck would they move to? Hamilton, and their non-existent arena (over the objections of Toronto, Buffalo, and the league seem to want to put an expansion club there)? Nashville has a team now, so that bugaboo is gone. I'd believe that Vanderbeek is about to call it quits (which I doubt), but not that the team is moving.

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