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NJDevs4978

Official 2012 New York Mets Thread

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lol at Mike Nickeas being the super-secret other guy we gave up in the deal, and getting an OF prospect to boot. Can't exactly complain about getting a C, OF AND SP prospect.

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Mets fans should be excited. When you can get a potential elite catcher and a top of the rotation pitcher for a 38 yar old knuckeballer...great story....big fan of his...make the deal every time.

Mets fans will love this trade in 3-4 years

We love it now. Sorry to see Dickey go, but this deal made sense on all levels.

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I really liked R.A. Howie Rose had it dead on when he said he's turned into a folk hero of sorts. From nothing to knuckle-balling ace all in his late 30's...and somehow did it on the Mets. Lots of great memories of this guy (even going back to the famouse Chris Russo R....A....DICKEY tirade when he shut us down back in 08 I think) very sad to lose such a good guy. However, it's doubtful he repeats 2012 at his age, and the fact that he throws harder than most knucklers. It was a trade that needed to be made. Our catcher position is probably shored up for the next 10 years, plus we got a guy in Buck who actually has power. Not a bad short term pickup. Plus the raw prospect in Syndegaard who has a high upside. Thole and Nickeas are nothing. Garbage really.

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Thole and Nickeas are nothing. Garbage really.

Yeah, getting rid of these two guys was a nice compliment to that trade. I think Thole can rebound and hit enough to be an okay backup with shaky defense, but I think we're all tired of his game and I certainly had no interest in seeing him get another 350+ PA after a replacement level season. He was a probably a lock to be non-tendered next winter too. So, so happy Nickeas is gone. I never understood why they he even gave him run as the backup; he doesn't belong in Major League Baseball, even as a depth body.

Between Thole, Nickeas, Johnson, and Shoppach, Mets' catchers combined for the worst OPS and fWAR in MLB. All four guys won't be in the organization next year. John Buck isn't good either, frankly, but he's probably a +1 to +1.5 win upgrade over the monstrosity that was Josh Thole last season, and he should be a respectable short-term fill-in until d'Arnaud is ready. Recker, who is set to be the backup as of right now, at least has a career .833 OPS in AAA to his name, including big numbers vs lefties, which makes him a little interesting.

Edited by nmigliore

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Yeah, got the Jays to take two stiffs off the Mets' hands. No complaints.

As far is hitting goes, looks like Buck is about the same as Kelly Shoppach...low average, low OB%, lots of Ks, has some power. So the next year will be likely be rough at the catcher position.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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Yeah, got the Jays to take two stiffs off the Mets' hands. No complaints.

As far is hitting goes, looks like Buck is about the same as Kelly Shoppach...low average, low OB%, lots of Ks, has some power. So the next year will be likely be rough at the catcher position.

It really depends on d'Arnaud, he's the wildcard. Buck's BABIP could perk up to his career norm and make him a better hitter than he's been the last two years, and maybe some of Recker's AAA success translates over, but for the most part they probably make the Mets' catching situation merely 'not good' as opposed to 'dreadful/replacement level or worse'. But d'Arnaud could be up as soon as May or June and certainly change the perspective. Ideally he stays healthy, hits well for a few months in Las Vegas, and comes up and is a fun guy to follow in what will likely be a somber 2nd half.

I'm drooling over the possibility of watching Wheeler and d'Arnaud as a battery.

Edited by nmigliore

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Sandy can say what he wants about "not punting away 2013", but I think he's resigned himself to the fact that this is probably a 70-win team next season, and he's not going to try to make any quick-fix moves to make them more competitive. I'm OK with that...I have a feeling he is going to go all out for 2014 and beyond, especially if the kids develop quickly in 2013.

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Sandy can say what he wants about "not punting away 2013", but I think he's resigned himself to the fact that this is probably a 70-win team next season, and he's not going to try to make any quick-fix moves to make them more competitive.

Absolutely. I don't expect much more to be done with the 2013 roster. They acquired Collin Cowgill the other day, which was a nice move for a right-handed hitting outfielder with multiple years of control. I'd expect them to acquire another right-handed bat -- it may very well be resigning Scott Hairston -- and running with outfield platoons next year (Duda, Kirk, Baxter vs RHP; Cowgill and 2nd RHB OF vs LHP). Acquiring another starting pitcher should be a priority too; they'll most likely look into giving out a 1-year, incentive-based deal again and someone like Shaun Marcum would make a lot of sense for that. I don't expect much else to be done with the rest of the roster; the remaining spots are basically on the bench and in the bullpen, which will probably be filled internally.

Edited by nmigliore

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Who are the big names coming up for FA in 2013?

And though next season won't be pretty from a W-L standpoint, there's hope and things to look forward to. People forget that Frank Cashen was hired in 1980. The Mets didn't start having good seasons under him until 1984. It's not easy to stay patient, especially with the embarrassing moments on and off the field this franchise is prone to, but they do seem to be headed in the right direction.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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Sandy can say what he wants about "not punting away 2013", but I think he's resigned himself to the fact that this is probably a 70-win team next season, and he's not going to try to make any quick-fix moves to make them more competitive. I'm OK with that...I have a feeling he is going to go all out for 2014 and beyond, especially if the kids develop quickly in 2013.

Not necessarily. Once he gets over his injuries, D'Anaud is basically ready (he's going to be 24), and Harvey should improve, which makes up for some of the sting of losing Dickey. In addition, Johan, I believe, is essentially in a contract year.

Yes, the stars have to allign, but the talent is in place for the Mets to be an above .500 team.

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Yes, the stars have to allign, but the talent is in place for the Mets to be an above .500 team.

Obvious caveat applies -- any team could go and pull a 2012 Baltimore Orioles, because baseball is weird like that -- but .500 or better for the 2013 Mets is very unlikely. Without doing some projections, they're probably a 70-72 win team on paper right now. If they kept Dickey and added a couple solid role players around him, maybe there's an argument to be made. But as of right now, a ton of things would need to break right (which is what I guess you're saying?). But the problem with that logic is about 25 other teams can say the same thing ("if everything breaks, we could be .500 or better.").

I honestly don't know what to expect from Santana. He's still a poor bet to give you innings and he was complete and utter disaster from June-on last season.

If Harvey has a solid first full season and Wheeler and d'Arnaud make successful transitions to the Majors, I'll be really happy.

Sandy has done a nice job of stocking the farm system in the meantime -- it's gone from bottom 3rd of the league to probably top 3rd -- but anyone who saw the payroll situation when Omar was canned knew post-2013 would be the true rebranding of this club. So much financial flexibility will exist then.

Edit: CR - here's a list of 2014 free agents: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/02/2014-mlb-free-agents.html

Edited by nmigliore

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Obvious caveat applies -- any team could go and pull a 2012 Baltimore Orioles, because baseball is weird like that -- but .500 or better for the 2013 Mets is very unlikely. Without doing some projections, they're probably a 70-72 win team on paper right now. If they kept Dickey and added a couple solid role players around him, maybe there's an argument to be made. But as of right now, a ton of things would need to break right (which is what I guess you're saying?). But the problem with that logic is about 25 other teams can say the same thing ("if everything breaks, we could be .500 or better.").

I honestly don't know what to expect from Santana. He's still a poor bet to give you innings and he was complete and utter disaster from June-on last season.

If Harvey has a solid first full season and Wheeler and d'Arnaud make successful transitions to the Majors, I'll be really happy.

Sandy has done a nice job of stocking the farm system in the meantime -- it's gone from bottom 3rd of the league to probably top 3rd -- but anyone who saw the payroll situation when Omar was canned knew post-2013 would be the true rebranding of this club. So much financial flexibility will exist then.

Edit: CR - here's a list of 2014 free agents: http://www.mlbtrader...ree-agents.html

Not a great list in 2014. They may be better off going the trade route, when the time comes.

Daniel, the problem with Omar Minaya in his later years with the Mets is that he basically built the team around "if" scenarios. I can remember them clearly..."If John Maine and Oliver Perez pitch like they did in 2007...if this guy does this and if this guy does that"...he basically built his teams in a "If everything goes 100% perfect, this team could win 87 games and be a wild card contender!" way. Of course, when you build a house of cards on a muddy foundation in a windy area, it's going to collapse.

Sure, the Mets could overachieve, but it's highly unlikely, and to Sandy's credit, he's not trying to sell us on the "if" scenarios Omar loved so much. He won't admit to punting away 2013, and I can't blame him, but most Met fans know there's no way this team is winning 80 games unless something crazy happens...like Jon Niese becoming a 20-game winner or something unforseen like that. But it looks like pieces are coming that should be able to help the Mets fairly soon, and more pieces that can help once the team is competitive. That's why we can stand another year of irrelevance...it really does feel like good things are coming in the not-too-distant future.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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Not a great list in 2014. They may be better off going the trade route, when the time comes.

Daniel, the problem with Omar Minaya in his later years with the Mets is that he basically built the team around "if" scenarios. I can remember them clearly..."If John Maine and Oliver Perez pitch like they did in 2007...if this guy does this and if this guy does that"...he basically built his teams in a "If everything goes 100% perfect, this team could win 87 games and be a wild card contender!" way. Of course, when you build a house of cards on a muddy foundation in a windy area, it's going to collapse.

Sure, the Mets could overachieve, but it's highly unlikely, and to Sandy's credit, he's not trying to sell us on the "if" scenarios Omar loved so much. He won't admit to punting away 2013, and I can't blame him, but most Met fans know there's no way this team is winning 80 games unless something crazy happens...like Jon Niese becoming a 20-game winner or something unforseen like that. But it looks like pieces are coming that should be able to help the Mets fairly soon, and more pieces that can help once the team is competitive. That's why we can stand another year of irrelevance...it really does feel like good things are coming in the not-too-distant future.

My point was that the Mets aren't the Marlins or the 2009 Nationals. The Mets were a 70 win team last year. Even without Dickey, I thinkthe Mets will be better than that this year. Again, good enough to be above .500 if things go well.

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Mets won 74 games last year. Why do you think they'll win more than that? They haven't really improved any position at the major-league level yet. If the kids come up and contribute right away with minimal growing pains (like Wright did way back when), then they could possibly approach 80 wins, but there's still holes all over the place. The outfield is still very questionable.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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Grady Sizemore intrigues me...Metsblog has stated that Mets brass were "very interested". Coming off the same surgical procedure as Beltran was (microfracture) I'd take a chance on him

Also someone like Shaun Marcum to shore up the rotation would be nice

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R.A Dickey was easy to like before, but it's scary how much this guy gets it, on all levels:

http://network.yardbarker.com/mlb/article_external/dickey_writes_a_farewell_message_to_mets_fans/12492898

I still think the Mets made the right move, no question, but when the Mets are about 10 games under .500 in June and David Wright is hitting about .265 and on pace for 160 strikeouts and wilting under the pressure of his contract, it will be hard to not miss him, for both his performance and his heart and personality. He had so much more heart than so many Mets who've passed through here lately. Such a great guy.

2014...can't get here soon enough.

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Wow that's a pretty touching letter. I'm looking forward to this team's future but man, I'm really going to miss him. Between he and the other past Mets on the Blue Jays, I'll at least have a 2nd favorite team to cheer for next year.

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RA Dickey is 100% class. It's gonna suck having him in the same division as the O's next year

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Hall of Fame voting for the class of 2013 ends soon and will be announced next Wednesday afternoon. Baseball Think Factory has a gizmo that has been tracking ballots. At this point, i's possible nobody gets in Cooperstown this summer. Piazza is listed at just 60.7% (75% is the requirement to get in), so it seems unlikely he goes in as a first-ballot Hall of Famer. Which is a shame. The fact people link him to PED use, despite never failing a drug test, is ridiculous. People are actually leaving him off the ballot because of his back-acne (seriously? Also, Murray Chass wins the honors of worst ballot of the year with just Jack Morris; what a troll) while others are taking a one-year protest to guys like the steroid era (again, despite the fact Piazza has NEVER been convicted of PED-use). What a joke.

Edited by nmigliore

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http://thesteroidera.blogspot.com/2009/03/mike-piazza-steroids-allegations.html

Who knows, but let's face it, fairly or unfairly, guys like him who played in his era who have anything questionable that can be held against them aren't going to get the benefit of the doubt, at least not initially. Looks like he'll still get in eventually though, unlike some of his peers.

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I don't think he deserves to be first ballot, personally. While he was a great, there is only one real moment that stands out to you, the 9/11 home run.

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I don't think he deserves to be first ballot, personally. While he was a great, there is only one real moment that stands out to you, the 9/11 home run.

What about the fact he's the best offensive catcher of all time?

Edited by nmigliore

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He was a fairly terrible defensive catcher. IMO, you need to be a total well rounded player and have absolutely zero weaknesses to be first ballot HOF worthy.

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I don't think he deserves to be first ballot, personally. While he was a great, there is only one real moment that stands out to you, the 9/11 home run.

Not really fair, the guy was a beast offensively as a catcher, especially in LA (though he has some great years in NY as well...sadly, being a catcher there was no way he wasn't going to break down). He had his share of big dingers as a Met.

Look how he compares to other catchers in the HOF, and he was pretty special. His defense wasn't really that bad either.

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His defense wasn't good but his bat was truly amazing. I wouldn't call him the best overall catcher of all-time -- that's Johnny Bench -- but he's certainly up there.

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