Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
NJDevs4978

Official 2012 New York Mets Thread

1,024 posts in this topic

His defense wasn't good but his bat was truly amazing. I wouldn't call him the best overall catcher of all-time -- that's Johnny Bench -- but he's certainly up there.

Agree, Bench was best all-around. Piazza's main weakness defensively was throwing, but he was pretty decent at everything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Craig Biggio's probably going to be the only guy that winds up getting in lol...it's kinda silly that Piazza would be held out because of rumors, but honestly anything that was too good to be true in those days (like being a skinny 61st round pick to a beast that became the best hitting catcher of all time), usually was too good to be true without additives.

I don't know if I'd hold any of these guys out. Maybe the outed steroid users I wouldn't have as first-ballot but it's not like the steroid hitters weren't hitting against steroid pitchers too, and it wasn't illegal then unfortunately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Hall of Fame is a joke anyway and too big a deal is made of it anyway. I mean come on...Albert Belle was one of the most lethal, dangerous hitters in baseball history and he isn't even eligible anymore. And never implicated with steroids from what I can remember.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Hall of Fame is a joke anyway and too big a deal is made of it anyway. I mean come on...Albert Belle was one of the most lethal, dangerous hitters in baseball history and he isn't even eligible anymore. And never implicated with steroids from what I can remember.

He had a hip condition that forced him to retire early...if he had put in 2-3 more strong years (possibly approaching 500 HR), it would've been hard for the writers to deny him entry, regardless of what they thought of him as a person. One could argue that he deserves to get in based on short-term dominance, but the wittle baseball wannabe nerd writers don't like it when players don't talk to them or aren't nice to them. Eddie Murray got away with it because he hit the magic numbers (namely 500+ HRs), though a look at his stats show he was more of a steady compiler than a guy who dominated the game. The Hall of Fame is supposed to be based on one's on-field performance (preferably without performance-enhancing drugs), not how swell of a guy he was. By seemingly all accounts, Albert Belle was a very hard to guy to like, and the voters decided to hold that against him.

His injury made the writers' job that much easier...they won't admit it was Belle's surly attitude that kept him out...they'll tell you he fell short of a .300 batting average, 500 HRs...and they'll point to his poor fielding, though there's guys in the Hall not exactly known for having a Golden Glove.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is shaping up to be a very painful 2013 for the Mets. They've essentially punted it away and have no desire to compete. Hopefully 2014 will be the year we make an effort. But this will be another transition season

No help for the bullpen. It will be agonizingly bad once again

The outfield is looking like the worst in baseball. Again no attempt to improve it. Bay is sort of addition by subtraction though.

The Dickey trade had to be made...so our catching position looks set for the forseeable future.

Who knows what we'll get out of Santana. But they'll likely trade him this year as well. I think he'll be pretty decent, as it is a contract year.

I am excited to see Wheeler eventually to come in and bolster the rotation. Hopefully Harvey is the real deal as well.

This team will win 65-68 games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree, that the Mets punted away 2013, but the RA Dickey trade should've alerted you to that immediately...if the Mets had any designs on trying to squeak into the playoffs in 2013, they don't make that deal. Sandy won't admit as much, and I wouldn't expect him to.

I have them at about 70 wins. Who exactly is out there that the Mets should've gotten that's going to make them appreciably better for this season? Is there really that much a difference between 70 wins and 80 wins?

I know, in ways it sucks that the Mets are not going to be much of a factor, as far as being in any playoff races go, but here is what you are hoping for, in this transition year:

Harvey builds off last season.

Wheeler gets called up and at best does what Harvey did last season, and at worst at least gets some major league experience. Ditto Travis D'Arnaud

Wright doesn't turn in a full season as lousy as 2011 and the second half of 2012. If he turned in something like 2010 and was consistent, I think we'd all be OK with that going foward.

Ike Davis isn't hitting .158 as late as June 8, and becomes far more consistent than he was 2012. He was all over the place last season, but there were positive signs: though he hit just .228 for September, he had a .365 OB% for that month.

Gee stays healthy.

Parnell shows he's more than just a sabermetric curiosity, and can come into a big spot without Met fans being terrified of what's going to happen.

Daniel Murphy can start to increase his value at the plate, either by getting more hits or taking more walks. He's too average right now, especially with his iffy fielding (which probably isn't going to get any better) and lack of home run power.

Ditto Tejada, as far as OB% goes.

I don't care what Santana does, but if it's something good, the Mets should unload him the first chance they get.

I agree, the 2013 outfield is probably a lost cause. Duda gets one last shot at being an everyday-type because of his power.

2013 will go a long way towards answering some of these questions. The Mets are stuck with Wright if he's not good, but I think if enough good things happen in 2013 that point to the team having a shot in 2014, Sandy will be much more aggressive come next offseason, and will try to upgrade where appropriate. It means we'll likely have to suffer through another also-ran season, but I think good things are coming for the Mets, come 2014 and beyond. Just gotta be patient.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, we've all known that, just by looking at the payroll situation, the post-2013 offseason would be the one where Sandy would truly get to remake the team. There's no payroll inflexibility to use as an excuse at that point. Although it would have been nice to see Sandy more active with the ML roster in the meantime, he's built up a good farm system, one that certainly ranks in the top half of baseball. If you look at Baseball Prospectus' Mets' Top 10 for 2013, outside of a few IFA prospects, they've all come from Sandy's regime:

1) Wheeler - Beltran trade, 2011

2) d'Arnaud - Dickey trade, 2012

3) Syndergaard - Dickey trade, 2012

4) Fulmer - Supplemental 1st round pick, 2011 draft

5) Flores - 2007 IFA (Omar regime)

6) Cecchini - 1st round pick, 2012 draft

7) Tapia - 2009 IFA (Omar regime)

8) Familia - 2007 IFA (Omar regime)

9) Nimmo - 1st round pick, 2011 draft

10) Montero - 2011 IFA (Sandy regime)

Edited by nmigliore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Sandy, he inherited a mess, just like Frank Cashen did. And just like Cashen, it's taking Sandy time (multiple seasons) to fix it all. Not saying Sandy will make the Mets a WS champion and a perrenial contender YET, but he's going about it the right way at least. The funny thing is, I think it was nmig who posted the free agent class for 2013, and from what I remember, it wasn't terribly good. So Sandy might be better off looking at trade options come the 2013 offseason.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's some intriguing players but for the most part, yes, it's a weak class. That's why it's nice to have a good farm system though. Look at what the Blue Jays did this winter - they basically decimated the top of their farm system but flipped their roster from mediocre to quite possibly the best team in the AL in the process. Signing Melky Cabrera and Maicer Izturis were solid moves in free agency but their difference-making moves came via trade.

Edited by nmigliore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clearly it's a different era, but Cashen nabbed several of the '86 Mets key players via trade. The only starting pitchers on that team that were drafted by the Mets were Dwight Gooden and Rick Aguilera. Hernandez and Carter both came in blockbuster-type deals. And I think Sandy will try to make some big deals come 2013, though it may meaning waving bye-bye to some prospects some fans will be sorry to see go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good article by John Dewan (The Fielding Bible), who tackles the myth that Piazza was some albatross behind the plate: http://www.billjames..._hall_of_fame_/

The most important part of a catcher’s job is handling his pitchers and in this area Piazza was superb. Here is one of the most telling statistics. In his career behind the plate, pitchers had a 3.80 ERA when Piazza was catching. If you look at all the other catchers who caught the same pitchers in the same year that Piazza did, they allowed a 4.34 ERA. That’s a major difference, much more important than a few extra bases stolen. (In fact, Piazza’s catcher ERA of 3.81 includes the run value of any extra stolen bases he allowed.)

Craig Wright wrote an excellent article in The Hardball Times Baseball Annual 2009 calledPiazza, Hall of Fame Catcher. He did a detailed sabermetric study that showed that hitters had a .723 OPS with Piazza behind the plate and a .748 OPS with other catchers. This 25-point differential is highly significant. In further studies that we did in The Fielding Bible—Volume II, we found that Piazza saved at least 20 to 70 runs more than an average catcher defensively, depending on the technique that we used.

Edited by nmigliore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I said it in an earlier post...the only real deficiency I remember in Piazza's game was throwing to second. He was pretty good at everything else...enough so that I thought he didn't get enough credit for his defense.

BTW, Mets re-sign Pedro Feliciano. A treading water move for a club that is clearly treading water in 2013. Whatever...it's all about 2014 and beyond.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BTW, Mets re-sign Pedro Feliciano. A treading water move for a club that is clearly treading water in 2013. Whatever...it's all about 2014 and beyond.

I like the signing mostly for the nostalgia behind it; I'm sure I've cursed him a few times through the years but he was always so durable and dependable at getting lefties out. After I heard of the signing, I looked up the numbers yesterday; I knew Pedro was a fantastic LOOGY but I never realize just how dominant he was - from 2006-2010, he quite literally was a top 3 reliever when matched up against left-handed hitters: 3rd in ERA, 2nd in FIP, 2nd in wOBA against. The common pair of relievers who outpaced him were Papelbon and Mariano Rivera.

Of course, I have absolutely no expectation of him returning to that form since he's a few years older and has been on the DL the last 2 seasons with a bum shoulder, but it would be nice to see him healthy enough to crack the Opening Day roster. He did pitch a little bit in the PWL this winter.

Edited by nmigliore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Feliciano was pretty good. It's a "what the hell, why not?" move, low risk with some upside. This is a 70-win team more than likely...what do they have to lose?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mets signed Shaun Marcum.

Not a bad pitcher. Has had a solid ERA the past 4 seasons. Also probably a good chance he gets dealt at the deadline...but not impossible he figures in the 2014 plans as a 4th starter either

Also, Hairston to the Cubs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a fantastic signing, Marcum was one of the top starters left on the market. He's had elbow problems in the past: Tommy John surgery in 2009 and a sore elbow limited him to just 120 innings last year, but he did finish the season healthy and he did throw nearly 400 above average innings between 2010-2011. Hopefully he pitches healthy and well enough to be an attractive trade piece at the deadline.

Edited by nmigliore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hard not to like this one. Like nmig notes, if he pitches well, he might fetch something back, like a mid-level prospect. If he doesn't, some team desperate for starting pitching at the deadline might take a shot at him anyway (though they won't give up much). If he sucks, he's only here for a year. So maybe now the Mets win 72 games instead of 70 if he works out. But the Mets get somebody who has a pretty good shot to at least turn in a winning record and some QSs while he's here. Good upside and not too much downside.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mets are supposedly still interested in Oswalt...and still sort of middling around with Michael Bourn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Oswalt interest was already shot down by his agent. I would have loved to add him for depth but it just wasn't a good match after we signed Marcum. He can find a better opportunity elsewhere or sit out a few months like he did last year.

I doubt we sign Bourn, but things could get interesting if the league rules that the Mets can keep their 1st round pick. I doubt that actually happens and they'd still have to deal with Boras. Still, if Bourn's market has collapsed so badly that he'd take a 3 year deal for something like $45M, I'd definitely do it, even if we have to give up the 11th overall pick in the draft. That's just such a bargain for what he brings.

Edited by nmigliore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mets signed LaTroy Hawkins and Marlon Byrd off the scrap heap....minor league deals for each.

Byrd may very well be done. Hawkins has been pretty decent the past 2 seasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Byrd has anything left in the tank, he could be okay. I wouldn't be surprised if he's cooked either, but it might be unfair to say that based on ~150 PA in 2012, and he was a pretty decent player for the Cubs in 2010 and 2011, after all.

He'll compete for the last outfield spot on the bench with Andrew Brown. I think the outfield could end up being very fluid this year with multiple players getting chances given that the current group is largely inexperienced - Kirk, Baxter, and Cowgill each have less than 350 PA for their Major League careers. If one, two, or all three flop, then what happens? Ideally these guys hold their weight against RHP and Cowgill and Byrd platoon with them, but that's basically the best case scenario. For a team with such an inexperienced and ugly-looking outfield, there's no harm picking up a player like Byrd on a freebie deal and seeing what he has left. If he's finished, he won't last very long. The outfield won't be a strength of this team at all this year, but adding as many bodies as possible could help it from being a complete embarrassment.

Edited by nmigliore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EDIT: See new thread.

Edited by nmigliore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0