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nyrsuck26

Official 2012 New York Yankees Thread

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Google image search "open ankle dislocation" if you want to see how gnarly the injury is. Definitely don't do it if you are squeamish though.

Ewwwwwwwwwww that is soo gnarly. I didn't realize it was a break.. I figured it was just a "dislocation"

That is roughhhhhh man I wish him the best

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I've wanted to post various thoughts on the short season so far but I keep falling asleep before I finish. :doh1:

- The Kontos-Stewart took me by surprise but I don't mind it. While I've been a believer in Kontos for a number of years now, I'm not going to lose sleep over losing a relief prospect. Stewart should be a welcome upgrade over Cervelli defensively.

- Really happy to see David Phelps make the team and have a successful debut Sunday. He's another guy I've been following for a few years and its rewarding to see him up with the big club. I hope he can stick and contribute for them. Normally I'd hate to see them use a starter as a reliever but with him essentially blocked from ever starting for the Yankees, I don't mind the move at all. I will say I expected Mitchell to get it since they view him as a reliever unlike Phelps and Warren. Though I'm not too shocked since I've always felt that Phelps was the best of the trio.

- Hughes wasn't great Sunday but I think this could be a stepping off point for him towards a productive year.

- I wasn't in love with the Ibanez move and still have my doubts. I don't mind them giving him a chance early in the year at the plate but please don't use him in the field. Everyone knows he sucks. Sure Jones isn't the defender he once was but he's still a better option than Ibanez.

- Not concerned over the winless start. Its early, they faced a solid team, and had a bit of bad luck mixed in. Its going to happen over the course of the year multiple times.

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I've wanted to post various thoughts on the short season so far but I keep falling asleep before I finish. :doh1:

- The Kontos-Stewart took me by surprise but I don't mind it. While I've been a believer in Kontos for a number of years now, I'm not going to lose sleep over losing a relief prospect. Stewart should be a welcome upgrade over Cervelli defensively.

- Really happy to see David Phelps make the team and have a successful debut Sunday. He's another guy I've been following for a few years and its rewarding to see him up with the big club. I hope he can stick and contribute for them. Normally I'd hate to see them use a starter as a reliever but with him essentially blocked from ever starting for the Yankees, I don't mind the move at all. I will say I expected Mitchell to get it since they view him as a reliever unlike Phelps and Warren. Though I'm not too shocked since I've always felt that Phelps was the best of the trio.

- Hughes wasn't great Sunday but I think this could be a stepping off point for him towards a productive year.

- I wasn't in love with the Ibanez move and still have my doubts. I don't mind them giving him a chance early in the year at the plate but please don't use him in the field. Everyone knows he sucks. Sure Jones isn't the defender he once was but he's still a better option than Ibanez.

- Not concerned over the winless start. Its early, they faced a solid team, and had a bit of bad luck mixed in. Its going to happen over the course of the year multiple times.

Unfortunately the Montero trade looks like it's going to be a blunder of Ken Phelps proportions.

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Unfortunately the Montero trade looks like it's going to be a blunder of Ken Phelps proportions.

I don't think we'll be able to come to any conclusion for a few years.

1. Pineda came into camp out of shape but it wasn't entirely his fault but a result of the timing of the trade. From Marc Carig:

A wrinkle in the Michael Pineda Saga: Turns out that Pineda was slated to arrive at M's camp Jan. 22 to work out early, just as he did before his great rookie year. Then Pineda got traded, and there was a 10-day lag before it became official. Ultimately, Pineda didn't arrive in Tampa until Feb. 14, still early, but not as planned. Impossible to know if extra 3 weeks of work would have made difference. But Pineda knows this much: “Next year, I'm coming early. I'm doing my plan.”

Its also worth noting that the Yankees had changed his throw day inbetween starts in spring training before reverting to his schedule that he is used to. Hopefully this is just a bump in the road and all of this is why the velocity was down. I still have faith he will be fine and develop his change up.

2. Montero is going to be a great hitter and would've been perfect for NYS. I hated giving him up but I suppose the Yankees felt that he wouldn't be able to remain at catcher long term and with Gary Sanchez, Austin Romine, and J.R. Murphy in the system and rising, Montero was expendable in the right deal. Plus they did have some attitude concerns about him in the minors.

3. Jose Campos is the wildcard that is years away but could swing this trade in the Yankees favor. Right now I would say this is a fair deal to both teams. If Pineda doesn't pan out then the Yankees lose the trade. Campos could recoup that value or even add to it if Pineda develops. Campos is raw but highly regarded. River Ave Blues had this to say about him:

They brought him stateside in 2011, holding him back in Extended Spring Training before shuffling him off to their short season Northwest League affiliate. The 19-year-old Campos was the best right-handed pitcher in the circuit, posting a 2.32 ERA with 85 strikeouts (9.4 K/9 and 25.7 K%) and 13 walks (1.4 BB/9 and 3.9 BB%) in 81.1 IP across 14 starts. After the season, Baseball America ranked him as the third best prospect in the league.

Listed at 6-foot-4 and 195 lbs., Campos is all about the fastball. He routinely sits 93-95 with life on the pitch and has run it up as high as 98 in the past. His breaking ball is still trying to decide if it wants to be a slider or a curveball, and a nascent changeup rounds out his repertoire. Both offspeed offerings have flashed swing-and-missability and have a chance to develop into above-average pitches down the road. Campos is an extreme strike thrower, filling up the zone with his fastball.

When the trade first went down I was stunned and angry. The more I thought about it and learned about Pineda and Campos, the more I grew to approve of the trade.

I still think this was a risky trade but with the lack off potential frontline starters in the system (Manny Banuelos the only one, damn you Gerrit Cole!) and the catching depth, I think this was a worthy risk. Essentially trading a potential great DH for a potential ace caliber pitcher.

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I don't think we'll be able to come to any conclusion for a few years.

1. Pineda came into camp out of shape but it wasn't entirely his fault but a result of the timing of the trade. From Marc Carig:

Its also worth noting that the Yankees had changed his throw day inbetween starts in spring training before reverting to his schedule that he is used to. Hopefully this is just a bump in the road and all of this is why the velocity was down. I still have faith he will be fine and develop his change up.

2. Montero is going to be a great hitter and would've been perfect for NYS. I hated giving him up but I suppose the Yankees felt that he wouldn't be able to remain at catcher long term and with Gary Sanchez, Austin Romine, and J.R. Murphy in the system and rising, Montero was expendable in the right deal. Plus they did have some attitude concerns about him in the minors.

3. Jose Campos is the wildcard that is years away but could swing this trade in the Yankees favor. Right now I would say this is a fair deal to both teams. If Pineda doesn't pan out then the Yankees lose the trade. Campos could recoup that value or even add to it if Pineda develops. Campos is raw but highly regarded. River Ave Blues had this to say about him:

When the trade first went down I was stunned and angry. The more I thought about it and learned about Pineda and Campos, the more I grew to approve of the trade.

I still think this was a risky trade but with the lack off potential frontline starters in the system (Manny Banuelos the only one, damn you Gerrit Cole!) and the catching depth, I think this was a worthy risk. Essentially trading a potential great DH for a potential ace caliber pitcher.

I had no problem in principle in trading Montero. However, you want a proven entity for him. I always felt we should have hung on to him for the year. If he played well, which I expected, you make him part of a package for, say, Felix Hernandez, or another ace on a bad team that can't afford to be resigned.

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I had no problem in principle in trading Montero. However, you want a proven entity for him. I always felt we should have hung on to him for the year. If he played well, which I expected, you make him part of a package for, say, Felix Hernandez, or another ace on a bad team that can't afford to be resigned.

i seriously feel so strong in saying that i think we should have kept Montero. I cant believe we actually traded him for Kuroda

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I had no problem in principle in trading Montero. However, you want a proven entity for him. I always felt we should have hung on to him for the year. If he played well, which I expected, you make him part of a package for, say, Felix Hernandez, or another ace on a bad team that can't afford to be resigned.

Thats fair and I definitely would've wanted a proven entity for him, which did happen until David Adams' ankle nixed the Cliff Lee deal a few years ago.

When the trade initially broke I was upset since the Yankees were getting a guy coming off a promising rookie year but there was still a lot of risk involved. After looking at the deal as a whole (including Campos), and with the catching depth, I am fine with the gamble Cashman made. I have faith in him. Plus if Pineda does develop well - they have a great young pitcher under team control which is crucial to the austerity budget they want to put in place in the future.

Off the top of my head I want to say that Seattle wanted a package starting with Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Nunez, and then + for Hernandez. Cashman felt like it would deplete too much depth which is why the Yankees dropped off Hernandez.

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Always nice to see the Yankees going into Yankee Stadium South and earn a sweep, albeit they had a grind out 2 of the games in extras.

Awesome start in the home opener by Kuroda. Talk about pitching efficiently and effectively, he was on his game. Love that Swisher, who I feel is unappreciated by some fans, has had two big hits lately. Loving this start that Jeter is getting off to, perhaps his adjustments last year have carried over this year.

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Jeter's been on fire to start. He hit another HR tonight (albeit in a losing effort). Great to see him showing everyone that he still hasn't lost it.

They were talking on ESPN during the game tonight about the problem the Yanks are gonna have when they're rotation gets healthy. Right now the rotation consists of:

Sabathia

Kuroda

Nova

Hughes

Garcia

The problem comes when Pineda comes off the DL (which they said could be within a month), and when(if?) Pettitte reaches game-shape and is ready to come up. In my opinion, they should pull Hughes and Garcia from the rotation, but then of course you have to decide whether they go to the bullpen or the minors (or in the case of Garcia designated for assignment). It's not a simple question, especially if they still see Hughes as a long-term starter. Thoughts?

Edited by nyrsuck26

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Jeter's been on fire to start. He hit another HR tonight (albeit in a losing effort). Great to see him showing everyone that he still hasn't lost it.

They were talking on ESPN during the game tonight about the problem the Yanks are gonna have when they're rotation gets healthy. Right now the rotation consists of:

Sabathia

Kuroda

Nova

Hughes

Garcia

The problem comes when Pineda comes off the DL (which they said could be within a month), and when(if?) Pettitte reaches game-shape and is ready to come up. In my opinion, they should pull Hughes and Garcia from the rotation, but then of course you have to decide whether they go to the bullpen or the minors (or in the case of Garcia designated for assignment). It's not a simple question, especially if they still see Hughes as a long-term starter. Thoughts?

Unfortunately there won't be a "problem" when Pineda comes off the DL, because he isn't very good. (That would be a good problem to have). He's probably better than Hughes and Garcia though, but not by much, so he'll get a chance in the starting rotation.

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Thats fair and I definitely would've wanted a proven entity for him, which did happen until David Adams' ankle nixed the Cliff Lee deal a few years ago.

When the trade initially broke I was upset since the Yankees were getting a guy coming off a promising rookie year but there was still a lot of risk involved. After looking at the deal as a whole (including Campos), and with the catching depth, I am fine with the gamble Cashman made. I have faith in him. Plus if Pineda does develop well - they have a great young pitcher under team control which is crucial to the austerity budget they want to put in place in the future.

Off the top of my head I want to say that Seattle wanted a package starting with Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Nunez, and then + for Hernandez. Cashman felt like it would deplete too much depth which is why the Yankees dropped off Hernandez.

Nunez, meh. Can't speak to Banuelos or Betances, but I kind of doubt they'll be superstars. All other things being equal, King Felix increases your odds dramatically of winning a seven game series. The only prospects that are untouchable in my book are guys like Harper, Trout and Strasberg from a couple years ago. For all of the prospects that the Yankees have had to part with over the past 15 years, I can only recall Austin Jackson and Ian Kennedy being any good. For all of the prospects that the Red Sox have had to trade during that same time, only Hanley Ramirez has reached his potential. ESPN did a pretty convincing article a while back that showed that the prospects that eventually get traded in blockbuster deals rarely pan out.

So far as austerity, it's pretty much an ego trip on Hal's part, wanting to prove that the Yankees aren't solely buying their success. The team makes money hand over fist, and can easily afford to spend $300 million on a roster if it ever came to that, especially when there is no hard salary cap coming anywhere in my lifetime. I also seriously doubt that the new austerity will make tickets any cheaper than they already are.

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Unfortunately there won't be a "problem" when Pineda comes off the DL, because he isn't very good.

I'm guessing you believe his velocity will still be very down, otherwise that's a pretty ridiculous statement. He was easily one of the top 3 rookies in all of baseball last season. His skillset of missing bats and throwing plenty of strikes puts him in line with a lot of great starting pitchers. In fact, here is a list of starting pitcher seasons who have posted a strikeout rate of 8.5 K/9 or greater and a walk rate of 3.5 BB/9 or less over the last 40 years at the age of 22 or younger:

1985 Dwight Gooden

1984 Dwight Gooden

2003 Mark Prior

1975 Frank Tanana

1990 Ramon Martinez

2010 Mat Latos

1994 Pedro Martinez

2011 Michael Pineda

1971 Vida Blue

That's pretty good company.

Edited by nmigliore

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I'm guessing you believe his velocity will still be very down, otherwise that's a pretty ridiculous statement. He was easily one of the top 3 rookies in all of baseball last season. His skillset of missing bats and throwing plenty of strikes puts him in line with a lot of great starting pitchers. In fact, here is a list of starting pitcher seasons who have posted a strikeout rate of 8.5 K/9 or greater and a walk rate of 3.5 BB/9 or less over the last 40 years at the age of 22 or younger:

1985 Dwight Gooden

1984 Dwight Gooden

2003 Mark Prior

1975 Frank Tanana

1990 Ramon Martinez

2010 Mat Latos

1994 Pedro Martinez

2011 Michael Pineda

1971 Vida Blue

That's pretty good company.

Yes, I'm basing it in large part about how disastrous his pre-season was, and particularly how down his velocity has been and dramtically at that. So far as I know, the pitchers you're comparing him to did not have that problem.

I'm also generally wary of guys who start out well, and fade down the stretch when it appears that teams have figured him out.

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The problem comes when Pineda comes off the DL (which they said could be within a month), and when(if?) Pettitte reaches game-shape and is ready to come up. In my opinion, they should pull Hughes and Garcia from the rotation, but then of course you have to decide whether they go to the bullpen or the minors (or in the case of Garcia designated for assignment). It's not a simple question, especially if they still see Hughes as a long-term starter. Thoughts?

I think the Yankees will either trade or release Garcia, he's going to be the first pitcher sacrificed off the roster. I'm a bigger believer in Nova than I am Hughes but there are still a few starts to sort out who will end up where.

Nunez, meh. Can't speak to Banuelos or Betances, but I kind of doubt they'll be superstars. All other things being equal, King Felix increases your odds dramatically of winning a seven game series. The only prospects that are untouchable in my book are guys like Harper, Trout and Strasberg from a couple years ago. For all of the prospects that the Yankees have had to part with over the past 15 years, I can only recall Austin Jackson and Ian Kennedy being any good. For all of the prospects that the Red Sox have had to trade during that same time, only Hanley Ramirez has reached his potential. ESPN did a pretty convincing article a while back that showed that the prospects that eventually get traded in blockbuster deals rarely pan out.

So far as austerity, it's pretty much an ego trip on Hal's part, wanting to prove that the Yankees aren't solely buying their success. The team makes money hand over fist, and can easily afford to spend $300 million on a roster if it ever came to that, especially when there is no hard salary cap coming anywhere in my lifetime. I also seriously doubt that the new austerity will make tickets any cheaper than they already are.

I'm not a fan of Nunez but the Yankees obviously love him so I'm just going to accept it and live with it.

Banuelos is the only potential high end starter in the upper levels of the system. Betances has battled injuries and command and if he makes it to the Bronx, I think it will be as a reliever. I don't think he will be able to put it together to stay a starter long term.

I don't think the austerity has anything to do with Hal wanting to show they don't buy their success. River Ave Blues outlined the potential savings in various scenarios here and it makes a ton of sense from a business perspective. In the different scenarios the Yankees could save anywhere from $54M to $198M. The Yankees may have a ton of money, but they still have to act as a business and maximize their earnings. I don't feel that the austerity plan has anything to do with ticket prices.

Yes, I'm basing it in large part about how disastrous his pre-season was, and particularly how down his velocity has been and dramtically at that. So far as I know, the pitchers you're comparing him to did not have that problem.

I'm also generally wary of guys who start out well, and fade down the stretch when it appears that teams have figured him out.

Regarding Pineda, I still believe his bad spring training and velocity issues have a lot to do with how screwed up his offseason schedule got when he was traded for the reasons posted above. Patience is going to be crucial with him.

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The Grandyman can! Thrice!

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Its amazing how much better Granderson has been ever since he redeveloped his swing with Kevin Long late in 2010. Seems like a great guy too with a lot of the charity and community work he does off the field.

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The Grandyman can! Thrice!

Oy vey, repeating the Sterling nicknames only encourages to be even more annoying. I can't wait until that embarrassment is off the air. Of course, with my luck he'll start doing Devils games.

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HA HA HA! Fatso Pineda out for the year with a torn labrum. Serious, serious injury that can be a Brien Taylor type career ender.

Good thing I'm not as heavily emotionally invested in the Yankees as I once was, so I can quote Gore Vidal in saying that the greatest words in the English language are "I told you so."

Edited by Daniel

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Yea good thing we didn't just trade one of the games most riveted prospects for a guy that will probably be a bust and never play a game for us

.. Wait, what? We did?

Edited by Onddeck

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This news is fairly devastating, one of the worst injuries a pitcher can have.

I still have no problem with Cashman making the deal. I wasn't a fan of it when it first broke, but for reasons I've already stated in the past, I came around on it and found it to be a good gamble to take. Trading a minor league sensation DH that was cost controlled for a cost controlled pitcher who already had success at the MLB level wasn't a bad idea.

We won't know who won this trade for at least five years. Pineda's career could be done or he could recover and become an ace like Clemens did. Montero may become an elite hitter as a catcher, or just as a DH, or could not reach his potential at all. Noesi wasn't and will not be a big deal to lose either way. Jose Campos is a quality prospect who has gotten off to a great start this year. He could end up being the biggest star from this deal 5-7 years from now. The Mariners got the better end of the deal for 2012, but its important to have patience and not jump to conclusions.

Edited by thefiestygoat

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"this is what happens when you give up on Jesus"

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I'd love to know how it is funny or appropriate to call 23 year old with a serious injury a fatso and to laugh at him...

This news is fairly devastating, one of the worst injuries a pitcher can have.

I still have no problem with Cashman making the deal. I wasn't a fan of it when it first broke, but for reasons I've already stated in the past, I came around on it and found it to be a good gamble to take. Trading a minor league sensation DH that was cost controlled for a cost controlled pitcher who already had success at the MLB level wasn't a bad idea.

We won't know who won this trade for at least five years. Pineda's career could be done or he could recover and become an ace like Clemens did. Montero may become an elite hitter as a catcher, or just as a DH, or could not reach his potential at all. Noesi wasn't and will not be a big deal to lose either way. Jose Campos is a quality prospect who has gotten off to a great start this year. He could end up being the biggest star from this deal 5-7 years from now. The Mariners got the better end of the deal for 2012, but its important to have patience and not jump to conclusions.

A guy who will be a millionaire before he's 25 or maybe is already can take it.

And again I still don't understand why people are touting his "success". He was great at the beginning of last year, but bad down the stretch and his velocity was significantly down at that point. Mike Pelfrey had similar numbers in the beginning of 2010(?) but you would be smoking crack to have traded a prospect of Montero's caliber for him.

It also wasn't like Montero had no track record. He was excellent right out of the gate and made the post-season roster for a team that already had great hitting. You don't trade him for someone with upside.

This will be the worst deal the Yankees have made . . . well maybe ever.

EDIT: On second thought, what I said about Pineda was really infantile. Even more lame that I doubled down on it. Thanks Feisty for pointing out how idiotic the comment was. I still maintain at it was an awful trade, but it's no excuse to make fun of a guy when he's down.

Edited by Daniel

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Obviously the Yankees had no faith in Montero being a catcher. Judging by most scouts they're weren't the only ones. As great as a hitter he may end up being, he is a DH. With how old the line up is they need to keep that DH spot as a rotation. They already have a solid catcher in Martin and a ton of depth in the minors. In a few years J.R. Murphy or Gary Sanchez may make Yankees fans forget about Montero. Not to mention the character concerns with Jesus. In the end they traded a guy that had no position for a quality prospect that already had success. I can't hate the move.

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Obviously the Yankees had no faith in Montero being a catcher. Judging by most scouts they're weren't the only ones. As great as a hitter he may end up being, he is a DH. With how old the line up is they need to keep that DH spot as a rotation. They already have a solid catcher in Martin and a ton of depth in the minors. In a few years J.R. Murphy or Gary Sanchez may make Yankees fans forget about Montero. Not to mention the character concerns with Jesus. In the end they traded a guy that had no position for a quality prospect that already had success. I can't hate the move.

I hadn't heard of any charactacter concerns with Montero, except maybe that he wasn't trying as hard after a while in Scranton. Even if true, it's not the most uncommon thing in the world.

Also, Seatlle is breaking him in as a catcher, and he seems to be coming along ok. They said the same thing about Posada at the beginning of his career, but he turned out to be a decent enough fielding catcher.

Regardless, even if there is a logjam, and it's hard to foresee where he might fit in, with a talent like him you find a way to make it work. If he's a career dh, which I actually don't see him being, you could do a whole lot worse.

The biggest problem I've always had with this deal is that the Yanks sold very very low. Montero was the type of prospect you should have gotten a sure thing for. Pineda was most certainly not that, and I was shocked by how many people seemed to think he was.

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