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devilsrule33

2012 MLB Thread

103 posts in this topic

Marisnick and Nicolino are solid prospects but the rest of that package is really underwhelming. There's certainly risk in the Reyes deal and Johnson is a free agent after 2013, but they should still be pretty ecstatic about this deal. The Reyes, Johnson, and Buehrle trio could add about 10 wins to the Jays next year.

Edited by nmigliore

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Damn...wonder how Reyes feels about this.

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Bud really needs to invoke the 'best interests of baseball' clause and nix this trade and then get rid of Loria the way he got rid of the guy in LA. I mean, I know the Marlins make this kind of thing a habit (buy a team one year, sell it off the next) but I don't remember a single trade as egregious as this in terms of players given up and not getting anyone of real note back. Even the Sox' salary dump they at least got Matt Kemp back. Plus the Sox weren't trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes the way the Marlins did, when they bought people to fill the new park, all the while subtly backloading deals and not paying anyone the first year so they could sell them off after the season and profit handsomely.

Damn...wonder how Reyes feels about this.

Probably mixed emotions...he's going to a place he wouldn't have ever picked if you gave him a dozen choices, but he's also going to a winning team. Even he has to see that place is a nuthouse and not worth staying in.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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It's not a bad baseball trade for the Marlins at all, but as a fan and for the city of Miami, it is disgusting. What is Selig going to do? He has allowed Loria to do things like this for the last 12 years and helped him along the way.

I have called Loria a genius for years ( a long with scrumbag, a$$hole, turd), and this continues it. He doesn't give a sh!t about how it makes him look as long as he comes away with boatloads of cash. And he has. The Marlins have been top 3 in profit since he owned the team. Spend nothing and rake in millions from revenue sharing. He also pays himself a ton of cash due to some nifty accounting work (upwards of $15-20 million according to deadspin). So attendance suffers like crazy but he rid himself of how much salary yesterday?

This hopefully puts an end to any public funding for a new arena or stadium. This one will cost $2.4 billion when it is all said and done.

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Bud really needs to invoke the 'best interests of baseball' clause and nix this trade and then get rid of Loria the way he got rid of the guy in LA. I mean, I know the Marlins make this kind of thing a habit (buy a team one year, sell it off the next) but I don't remember a single trade as egregious as this in terms of players given up and not getting anyone of real note back. Even the Sox' salary dump they at least got Matt Kemp back. Plus the Sox weren't trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes the way the Marlins did, when they bought people to fill the new park, all the while subtly backloading deals and not paying anyone the first year so they could sell them off after the season and profit handsomely.

I'm confused about the Kemp thing. The Marlins got a lot more than the Sox did for their salary dump.

Edited by devilsrule33

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I'm confused about the Kemp thing. The Marlins got a lot more than the Sox did for their salary dump.

I think he meant James Loney.

The Marlins opted for quantity over quality here. A lot of the Major League players the Jays gave up aren't good (Mathis), have fairly limited upside (Hechavarria, Alvarez), or serious character issues (Escobar). Marisnick and Nicolino are the real prizes here, but that's still not a lot considering the talent going the other way. Reyes is really good and there was simply no logical reason to move him; Johnson was nearly a 4-win pitcher despite a down season; Buehrle is a lock for ~200 above average innings. Buck and Bonifacio are nothing special but can have some usefulness coming off the bench. Coming up short in a return is besides the point for Miami anyway; Loria is just a joke and should be run out of baseball. He's made a mockery of the Marlins' franchise.

As for Toronto, they have a deep enough farm to where this trade doesn't hurt too much; I mean from a prospect standpoint, Nicolino was probably just the 3rd best arm on that low-A Lansing pitching staff. Keeping Travis d'Arnaud, who will probably be the Jays' starting catcher by next summer, is huge. If Toronto can find a good-hitting corner outfielder or DH (Nick Swisher makes a lot of sense for them) and if Romero bounces back to the average-ish pitcher he is, they are going to be an intriguing AL East threat next season.

Edited by nmigliore

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The Melkman to Toronto for 2/16. Wish he wasn't playing for a rival, he was one of my favorite non-Yankees.

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If Toronto can find a good-hitting corner outfielder ...

.....And 2 days later, there ya go! I'm a little disappointed because I was hoping the Mets would be in on him due to their need for OF help and Cabrera's suppressed cost, but ah well. Love the move for Toronto though. They could use a better a DH (or at least a platoon mate for Lind) and they'd be better suited if Rasmus stops hitting so many pop-ups, but there aren't many glaring weaknesses on that team. With Boston taking a step back and New York getting older, the Jays should make the AL East really fun next season.

Edited by nmigliore

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.....And 2 days later, there ya go! I'm a little disappointed because I was hoping the Mets would be in on him due to their need for OF help and Cabrera's suppressed cost, but ah well. Love the move for Toronto though. They could use a better a DH (or at least a platoon mate for Lind) and they'd be better suited if Rasmus stops hitting so many pop-ups, but there aren't many glaring weaknesses on that team. With Boston taking a step back and New York getting older, the Jays should make the AL East really fun next season.

I wonder what type of pressure the Orioles feel right now and if they'll make a move for Hamilton or Swisher. I'm also curious to see if Rasmus will do enough to be the starting CF for the Jays all year. His career thus far has been disappointing.

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I wonder what type of pressure the Orioles feel right now and if they'll make a move for Hamilton or Swisher. I'm also curious to see if Rasmus will do enough to be the starting CF for the Jays all year. His career thus far has been disappointing.

I had a lot of hope for him prior to being dealt to Toronto; in fact, on a Mets' forum, I even advocated trading Matt Harvey for him when the Cardinals were shopping him. But the reality is he's posted a sub-90 OPS+ in three of his four seasons, with that one great season (2010) coming with the aid of a .354 BABIP. He's fallen into a habit of hitting too many pop-ups (his IFFB% the last two seasons is among the highest in baseball) which has tanked his BABIP the last two years, and his defense in CF is questionable. He's still pretty young but it's fair to wonder if he can even maintain a starting job. I think the star potential is pretty much out the window at this point.

Edited by nmigliore

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Some pretty harsh but fair quotes from Stanton here:

"I do not like this at all," Stanton said. "This is the 'winning philosophy?' Then to say it's not about money? What is the motivation? There comes a breaking point. I know how I feel. I can't imagine how the city and the fans feel."

"They talked about that, a winning philosophy, and how they were building a winner to play in the new ballpark," Stanton said. "They talked about me and Jose. They talked about how they'd have Jose and [Emilio Bonifacio] and Hanley [Ramirez] in front of me and how they would go get a bat to protect me.

"Jose, Bonifacio, Hanley ... all three are gone now. I had people warn me that something like this could happen, but it runs against the competitive nature every athlete has, that nature that everything is about winning. This kind of thing is what gets talked about all the time around this team. Former Marlins come back and they warn us. It gets talked about during the stretch, in the clubhouse, after games, on the road. Again, I do not like this at all."

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Really feel bad for Royals fans right now. Dayton Moore is such a moron.

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Really feel bad for Royals fans right now. Dayton Moore is such a moron.

I hear that Myers could be this years Mike Trout. Any truth to that?

And Idk what O's are gonna do to replace Reynolds' bat. I hope Swisher signs there

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I hear that Myers could be this years Mike Trout. Any truth to that?

And Idk what O's are gonna do to replace Reynolds' bat. I hope Swisher signs there

Bet against anyone being 2012 Mike Trout. Ever.

Still, Myers is one of the best prospects in the game and he's pretty much ready to step into a Major League lineup right away. He doesn't have the upside of a superstar -- he profiles more like a right-handed Jay Bruce -- but that's still pretty damn good. The trade is awful for Kansas City because it probably makes them more of a 78-win team than a 72-win team and Shields, while really, really good, is only under control for 2 more years. It's just a really bad fit given their playoff odds and Kansas City paid a ransom to make it happen. Myers alone for Shields and Davis would've been really dumb; Myers, Odorizzi (#3/#4 starter upside), Montgomery (once heralded as one of the best arms in the minors and could be fixable), and Leonard is nightmarish. They could've dumped Jeff Francoeur for Myers, inserted Odorizzi into the rotation, maybe signed a solid free agent pitcher, and saw an even better short-term gain than this.

Edited by nmigliore

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Apparently Hamilton is on the verge of joining the Angels lol. I guess they are trying to copy the Yankees and give out another long deal to a soon to be declining player after signing Pujols last year. I hope this hamstrings them for years to come.

Torres ended back in SF so their OF is crowded right now and with the Choo trade I think its hard to imagine Swisher not ending up in Cleveland.

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Apparently Hamilton is on the verge of joining the Angels lol. I guess they are trying to copy the Yankees and give out another long deal to a soon to be declining player after signing Pujols last year. I hope this hamstrings them for years to come.

Torres ended back in SF so their OF is crowded right now and with the Choo trade I think its hard to imagine Swisher not ending up in Cleveland.

It isn't my money, and I don't think there are huge opportunity costs, so I think it's a very good signing. Just compare it to Arod who has the same amount of time left at more money, it's an absolute steal. Trout, Hamilton, Puljous and Morales. Good lord, that's a frightening middle of the order.

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Hamilton got 5/125

I think their line up is frightening in the immediate future but towards the end of the deal when Pujols is also mid way through his deal, things could get ugly. I also won't be shocked to see Hamilton fall apart sooner than later.

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Red Sox sign Dempster 2/26.5 Count me into the camp that thinks he's going to get crushed in the AL East even though Fangraphs who I normally agree with tried to convince me otherwise.

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Hamilton got 5/125

I think their line up is frightening in the immediate future but towards the end of the deal when Pujols is also mid way through his deal, things could get ugly. I also won't be shocked to see Hamilton fall apart sooner than later.

The earliest that happens is in year 3.

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Just compare it to Arod who has the same amount of time left at more money, it's an absolute steal.

EVERY contract compared to A-Rod's is a steal considering he has the worst contract in baseball.

Hamilton is great but there's too many risks attached and I don't think he'll age well. I would rather sign Nick Swisher for $50M+ less.

Edited by nmigliore

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Two baseball icons passed away on Saturday - Stan "The Man" Musial and Earl Weaver. Musial was an amazing baseball player with a special, humble demeanor, and if you haven't read it yet, I'd highly recommend this piece by Joe Posnanski from a couple years ago (warning: it's a bit long). Here's a few excerpts that tell some Musial stories:

It was April 18, 1954, in Chicago. The Cardinals trailed 3--0 in the seventh, and lefty Paul Minner was on the mound. There was a man on first, one out, when Musial smacked a double down the rightfield line. Or, anyway, the Cardinals thought it was a double. Wally Moon, the man on first, ran around the bases to score. Musial stood happily at second. The Cardinals' bench cheered. And apparently nobody noticed that first base umpire Lee Ballanfant had called the ball foul.

No footage of the play remains, of course, so we only get what we can read in the newspaper reports: Apparently the ball was definitively fair. Cardinals players came racing out of the dugout to go after Ballanfant, starting with shortstop Solly Hemus. Donatelli, the crew chief, who was behind home plate (and who apparently realized that Ballanfant had blown the call), threw Hemus out of the game. Cardinals manager Eddie Stanky was right behind. Donatelli threw him out of the game too. Peanuts Lowrey rushed out, and Donatelli was telling him to get back or he would get tossed too. And it was about then that Musial, who apparently was not entirely sure why there was so much commotion, wandered over to Donatelli.

"What happened, Augie?" Musial asked. "It didn't count, huh?" Donatelli nodded and said the ball had been called foul.

"Well," Musial said, "there's nothing you can do about it."

And without saying another word, Musial stepped back into the batter's box and doubled to the same spot in right field. This time it was called fair. The Cardinals rallied and won the game.

In 1958 he became the first player in National League history to make $100,000 in a year. The next year he had his worst season—he hit only .255 and missed 40 games with nagging injuries. He went to Cardinals management and insisted they cut his salary by the maximum 20% (which the Cardinals did). Years later, when asked about that move, Musial said simply, "There wasn't anything noble about it. I had a lousy year. I didn't deserve the money."

Another Brooklyn Dodgers pitcher, Joe Black, told me a story once. We were sitting next to each other on a plane when, without provocation, he simply started telling the story, one he has told many times. He was pitching against the St. Louis Cardinals—this was 1952, his rookie year, his best year. Black had come out of the Negro leagues, and he was young, and he pitched fearlessly. He thought this happened the first time he faced the Cardinals; Black pitched three scoreless innings that day. But he wasn't entirely sure that was the day. What he remembered clearly, though, was the voice booming from the Cardinals' dugout while he was pitching to Musial.

"Don't worry, Stan," that someone from the Cardinals dugout had yelled. "With that dark background on the mound, you shouldn't haven't any problem hitting the ball."

Musial did not show any reaction at all. He never did when he hit. He simply spat on the ground and got into his famous peekaboo batting stance—the one that Hall of Fame pitcher Ted Lyons said "looked like a small boy looking around a corner to see if the cops are coming"—and he flied out. It was after the game, when Black was in the clubhouse, that he looked up and saw Stan Musial.

"I'm sorry that happened," Black remembered Musial whispering. "But don't you worry about it. You're a great pitcher. You will win a lot of games."

Earl Weaver was one of the winningest managers in the game, with his O's teams of the late-60's/early-70's in particular being very special. He also employed some excellent in-game strategies; as Jonah Keri put it so eloquently, "watch him manage a game and you were seeing Moneyball in action, decades before Moneyball came to be." Oh, there's also this (warning: NSFW)...

...and this (absolutely NSFW)...

:lol:

RIP Stan The Man and Earl Weaver.

Edited by nmigliore

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Braves just landed Justin Upton and Chris Johnson for Prado, Randall Delgado, and 2 prospects

they're looking very formidable this year. Hell of a lineup

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