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Fred Garvin

Brodeur

90 posts in this topic

Most wins by a QB:

1) Brett Favre

2) John Elway

3) Dan Marino

Most wins by a pitcher:

1) Cy Young

2) Walter Johnson

t-3) Grover Cleveland Alexander

t-3) Christy Mathewson

Most wins by a goalie:

1) Martin Brodeur

2) Patrick Roy

3) Ed Belfour

Yeah. Wins are a ridiculous measure of how good a player was/is. All those guys up there just played on good teams. :rolleyes:

Yet Montana was better than any of those QBs, but had a career cut short by concussions.

Cy Young was also the all time loss leader. Notice all 3 of your pitchers came from the deadball era. Also, no relievers.

Obviously wins help. Bad players don't win that many games, regardless of team, but wins are a hopelessly flawed stat for evaluating antone, since they are dependant on so many variables. Look at some of the recent MLB Cy Young awards, where a player on a bad team was clearly the best and got the award based on merit despite record.

None of this is to bash Marty. He's been remarkably consistent and the backbone of an elite franchise, but there are any number of better stats to show how good he is.

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All those wins records are going to be destroyed by the shootout and goalies playing their whole careers in the new system (that's the way it is though... in the past you could bitch about the schedule getting longer and goalies getting more shots at wins; then it was OT and now it's SO. The league is always changing, so this thing is never consistent and it's bound to change in the future, too).

That's why the record I care about the most is the shutouts. The previous one stood for a lot of years and the addition of shootout doesn't really help goalies much in this regard (how many 1:0 SO games have you seen?), so Marty's record might as well become the new "unbreakable" stat that stands for God knows how long.

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All those wins records are going to be destroyed by the shootout and goalies playing their whole careers in the new system (that's the way it is though... in the past you could bitch about the schedule getting longer and goalies getting more shots at wins; then it was OT and now it's SO. The league is always changing, so this thing is never consistent and it's bound to change in the future, too).

That's why the record I care about the most is the shutouts. The previous one stood for a lot of years and the addition of shootout doesn't really help goalies much in this regard (how many 1:0 SO games have you seen?), so Marty's record might as well become the new "unbreakable" stat that stands for God knows how long.

I disagree about the win record. How many goalies are going to play as many games as Marty (no one has)? How many are going to play for teams that are consistently solid? How many other goalies will go through so much of their careers without getting hurt for as long as Marty did? You will definitely see more 400 and 500 game winners, but so many things are going to have to go right for someone to break Marty's record.

To me, the win record was always a great testament to the Devils' consistency, and Marty's consistency and flat-out durability...you simply don't break that record unless you're on the ice for a hell of a lot of games, and you don't get to play in that many games unless you're pretty damned good in most of them.

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I disagree about the win record. How many goalies are going to play as many games as Marty (no one has)? How many are going to play for teams that are consistently solid? How many other goalies will go through so much of their careers without getting hurt for as long as Marty did? You will definitely see more 400 and 500 game winners, but so many things are going to have to go right for someone to break Marty's record.

To me, the win record was always a great testament to the Devils' consistency, and Marty's consistency and flat-out durability...you simply don't break that record unless you're on the ice for a hell of a lot of games, and you don't get to play in that many games unless you're pretty damned good in most of them.

This. There's no active goaltender who's even close to a favorite to breaking the record. The guy who I always come back to is Marc Andre Fleury. Okay, so Fleury's got 221 wins and he turned 27 in November, and Brodeur had 242 wins through his 27 year old season. He's still got to win 430+ games over his next 13+ years to have a shot at breaking it. That means he has to average 33 wins a year until he's 40. That's really, really difficult. First, he's got to stay with a good team, and Pittsburgh figures to be really good for a while, but maybe Fleury wants more money and wants to go elsewhere. Then he has to stay healthy. Then he has to stay on top of his game.

Edited by Triumph

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And just to throw it out there, here's a pretty insane record (W-L-T, pre-shootout era): 258-57-74 That was Ken Dryden's record with the Canadiens in the 70s...the guy clearly played on some all-time teams, but to finish a career with a .758 winning %...that is pretty amazing.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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This. There's no active goaltender who's even close to a favorite to breaking the record. The guy who I always come back to is Marc Andre Fleury. Okay, so Fleury's got 221 wins and he turned 27 in November, and Brodeur had 242 wins through his 27 year old season. He's still got to win 430+ games over his next 13+ years to have a shot at breaking it. That means he has to average 33 wins a year until he's 40. That's really, really difficult. First, he's got to stay with a good team, and Pittsburgh figures to be really good for a while, but maybe Fleury wants more money and wants to go elsewhere. Then he has to stay healthy. Then he has to stay on top of his game.

Plus it's just unlikely Fleury plays 75 games a year every season either like Marty did for the most part. Most starting goalies these days get 60-65 maybe aside from a Cam Ward or Jonas Hiller, who play for teams that need them to play 70+ just to have a shot at the playoffs..

Edited by NJDevs4978

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Plus pretty much every goalie today plays the butterfly, and that style is hell on the knees and hips. I'd be amazed if any of today's elite young goalies are still playing at 40, let alone playing at the level Marty's playing at right now.

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Plus pretty much every goalie today plays the butterfly, and that style is hell on the knees and hips. I'd be amazed if any of today's elite young goalies are still playing at 40, let alone playing at the level Marty's playing at right now.

This here is another great point. The style isn't made for longevity.

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I read something earlier this season about how the Queen would need to win 40+ games each season for the next 10 years in order to simply catch Marty. That's insane. I don't think we'll see the wins and/or shutout records broken in our lifetime.

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All those wins records are going to be destroyed by the shootout and goalies playing their whole careers in the new system (that's the way it is though... in the past you could bitch about the schedule getting longer and goalies getting more shots at wins; then it was OT and now it's SO. The league is always changing, so this thing is never consistent and it's bound to change in the future, too).

That's why the record I care about the most is the shutouts. The previous one stood for a lot of years and the addition of shootout doesn't really help goalies much in this regard (how many 1:0 SO games have you seen?), so Marty's record might as well become the new "unbreakable" stat that stands for God knows how long.

I agree on the Shutout-record. That one will stand until I'm in the grave...

I'd just like to pointout that the "Queen" has played his entire career with the Shootout & has yet to reach 40 wins in a season...:whistling:

Edited by BlueSkirt

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Would love to see Marty be able to stay as hot as he's been recently. 30 wins next year would be even more to tack on to the record.

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393 more shots and Marty will hit the 30,000 shots he has faced (est. 10-15 games). 643 minutes away from 70,000 minutes play (est. 10-15 games). The team has 13 more games to go. Both of them are still achievable this season.

As for his playoff record, he is one win away from 100th and 245 (8 games approximately) shots away from 5000 playoff shots he has dealt.

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DF, thanks for the info. I'm looking forward to the 100th playoff win & to MB getting his 24th playoff shutout ! Hopefully in the same game...

Edited by BlueSkirt

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is there a way to find brodeur's stats versus gretzky?

shots/saves

games/goals

random i know

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