Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Neb00rs

Another "state of the D" thread.

28 posts in this topic

I know there's going to be differing opinions on this but with the current roster of:

Zidlicky

Fayne

Volchenkov

Larsson

Salvador

Greene

There is just no room for Tallinder. As I have been saying he has become expendable even if he does come back. And IMO I'd rather have Tao as a 7th D - I much prefer what he brings to the table offensively. I guess it's great we'll have D depth for the playoffs though. Thing is, only Sal is UFA after this year and we need to hold on to him for the right price.

Tallinder: 39 GP, 0 G, 6 A, -11

Tao: 28 GP. 1 G, 6 A, +7

Again, no room for Tallinder.

edit: and please no ludicrous comments about how he is our best defender.

Edited by ben00rs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Tallinder is 100% healthy then he should play the playoffs over Larsson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok no comments on how he is our best dman but how about playoff experience...tao none..tallinder is a solid vet who knows his job

would rather have tallinder as a top 6 if he's 100% healthy than tao and larsson...i dont think he's going to be 100% though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok no comments on how he is our best dman but how about playoff experience...tao none..tallinder is a solid vet who knows his job

would rather have tallinder as a top 6 if he's 100% healthy than tao and larsson...i dont think he's going to be 100% though

I agree Tallinder is better than Tao. But for the future I'd rather have Tao. Not to mention his basic stats are better.

Edited by ben00rs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Tallinder is 100% healthy then he should play the playoffs over Larsson.

It's not as clearcut as that...will Tallinder get in game action before the playoffs start? Will Larsson continue to be worn out/prone to suckiness like tonight? You want Larsson to get experience in the playoffs as the franchise defenseman in waiting, but at some point winning has to trump that.

But I'm still not sure Tallinder's coming back. Even if he does, having a rusty defenseman jump right in to playoff hockey isn't any more appealing than a worn down teenager.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Tallinder is 100% healthy then he should play the playoffs over Larsson.

Maybe the only legit way to get him in there but wouldn't you agree he shouldn't play over any of the other guys? And Larsson IS the future, hard to take him out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe the only legit way to get him in there but wouldn't you agree he shouldn't play over any of the other guys? And Larsson IS the future, hard to take him out.

Hockey games are played in the present, and at present Larsson is stinking up the joint nightly. Some 4th line scrub from the Flyers blew past him like he was Lyle Odelein. I'd like to see Taormina out there but it will screw up the pairings that are working pretty well, so DeBoer's got a little problem on his hands.

When healthy, Tallinder is our best defender - he's a huge minus because the goaltending was a disaster in 2011. It's shaped up when he got injured, but it has nothing to do with him leaving.

Edited by Triumph

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's pretty nice knowing that our D is deep enough that we can have this discussion.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree Tallinder is better than Tao. But for the future I'd rather have Tao. Not to mention his basic stats are better.

His basic stats may be better but the advanced stats paint a different picture. Considering Tallinder has logged a lot more ice time and played much harder competition of course his plus/minus will suffer. Point production isn't a great way to evaluate a defender...its kind of ludicrous. Even if you hate Tallinder I can't see how anyone would think that Taormina or Larsson is a better option than him. It blows my mind.

Anyway I wouldn't get attached too much to Taormina or call him part of the future. He is likely to reach UFA status as a Group VI after this season and with the depth they have I could see him elsewhere.

If the Devils are fortunate enough to get Tallinder back then he should go back to playing with Fayne which was NJ's best pairing this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hockey games are played in the present, and at present Larsson is stinking up the joint nightly. Some 4th line scrub from the Flyers blew past him like he was Lyle Odelein. I'd like to see Taormina out there but it will screw up the pairings that are working pretty well, so DeBoer's got a little problem on his hands.

This I think is stated very well.

When healthy, Tallinder is our best defender - he's a huge minus because the goaltending was a disaster in 2011. It's shaped up when he got injured, but it has nothing to do with him leaving.

I don't see how you can conclude this. He doesn't block the shots that Vol and Sal do, nor does he have their physical presence. Along with that he does not have offensive upside to compensate for what he lacks there. Is he good defensively? Yea, so what? He is not our best defender and has done nothing to earn that title.

Also Tri, what would you do going into 2012-13? Resign Sal? Who do you keep, who do you throw away?

Edited by ben00rs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tao doesn't have playoff experience either. Tallinder will no doubt be rusty. Larsson has been prone to mental mistakes as is the case normally for rookie defenders. It's not like we have a D roster with tons of playoff experience. Volch has the most amongst our guys I reckon. It's a crap shoot. I imagine DeBoer will be more dertain of his D lineup once the match ups are solidified.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see how you can conclude this. He doesn't block the shots that Vol and Sal do, nor does he have their physical presence. Along with that he does not have offensive upside to compensate for what he lacks there. Is he good defensively? Yea, so what? He is not our best defender and has done nothing to earn that title.

A much more important skill for a defenseman is preventing shots from ever happening, and Tallinder has that in spades. No, Tallinder's not going to win any awards in the offensive zone, but he is very good at passing the puck in the defensive zone - he's way better than either Salvador or Volchenkov in that area.

Also Tri, what would you do going into 2012-13? Resign Sal? Who do you keep, who do you throw away?

I would let Salvador walk - he's been good this year but he's hardly indispensable - and go with the guys they have now. I'd keep Taormina if he were amenable to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salvador has been our best defender if you measure it by the player that would hurt the most to be missing from the lineup. He'll be 36 years old... sorry but he has served us well and his contract was a winner including the year we needed him to get injured when we were over the cap. bye bye after this year.

Tallinder is good and has his moments but I believe he is soft and does clueless things at times. He plays over Larsson for sure. I don;t think he's coming back this year so the point is moot.

It's really an issue right now if Larsson can be trusted in the playoffs.. otherwise you'll see Tao and DeBoer will work out the paring problem with him

Andy Greene has also been very good and getting better each game since his return

And Zid has been a surprise for sure...getting better each game with tons of playing time.. he is well rested too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A much more important skill for a defenseman is preventing shots from ever happening, and Tallinder has that in spades. No, Tallinder's not going to win any awards in the offensive zone, but he is very good at passing the puck in the defensive zone - he's way better than either Salvador or Volchenkov in that area.

I would think the value of a defenseman's shot prevention is extremely difficult to measure. I know for a fact that Salvador has saved maybe a dozen goals this season. Are you telling me that you believe Tallinder's "shot prevention" saves as many or more goals?

I would let Salvador walk - he's been good this year but he's hardly indispensable - and go with the guys they have now. I'd keep Taormina if he were amenable to it.

I'm guessing that means that you'd let him walk not just because he's older and UFA but because you see Volchenkov as a better player right now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no signing 36 year old defensmen not named Scott Stevens

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get agitated whenever Tallinder was on the ice, but that's just me :D

Edited by Zubie#8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I HATED tallinder last year, even wanted him traded. But when lemaire came in and he was paired with fayne he did a complete 180. And this year he has been completely solid with he and fayne as our top pairing. His large minus I feel is due to being paired with larsson at the start of the season during larsson terrible play. He's not our best dman, but he's definitely up there. Sorry benny buddy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

tallinder has confidence (maybe over-confidence) with the puck in our zone. guys not afrain to take it out from behind the net and rush up ice though people. Id feel safer with a healthy talinder one on one with a speed rusher than larsson right now

but something tells me this is a moot discussion, he's prbably out for the year, which, as tri says, leaves petey with a problem on his hands. did they realize adam was this slow footed???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly I can't tell --- is he (Larsson) slow or is he overly cautious?

What I'm asking is: Do you all think his lack of speed something fixable? Do you sincerely think he's just slow.

Personally I think it's nearly impossible to tell -- I have my suspicions that he's just very hard on himself and slowing down to neaten things in his mind. I think his brain is slow right now not so much his skates. Sometimes that isn't fixable - it's a mental block that someone can't shake. If he's quick witted off ice then this will clear up. I don't know how he is though :noclue:

Any thoughts?

It could be: His initial NHL praise was based on presence of mind. He's got it in his head that that's his strong suit. Someone has to shake him up (and the AHL won't do it - the skills are too different he'll coast or be the exact same way - which means to be WORSE). I'm thinking he needs to give himself space to barrel through this without taking off speed to think. He just has to click, find his groove - whatever imagery works.

Edited by Pepperkorn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salvador has made some nice plays, but that saving goals stuff, I don't think that's a repeatable skill. Right now Salvador is even at 5 on 5 hockey. He's been great on the penalty kill, but DeBoer has mostly not used him against the opponent's best players and he's still being moved backwards - he has by far the worst Fenwick of any D who's played more than 20 games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly I can't tell --- is he (Larsson) slow or is he overly cautious?

What I'm asking is: Do you all think his lack of speed something fixable? Do you sincerely think he's just slow.

Personally I think it's nearly impossible to tell -- I have my suspicions that he's just very hard on himself and slowing down to neaten things in his mind. I think his brain is slow right now not so much his skates. Sometimes that isn't fixable - it's a mental block that someone can't shake. If he's quick witted off ice then this will clear up. I don't know how he is though :noclue:

Any thoughts?

It could be: His initial NHL praise was based on presence of mind. He's got it in his head that that's his strong suit. Someone has to shake him up (and the AHL won't do it - the skills are too different he'll coast or be the exact same way - which means to be WORSE). I'm thinking he needs to give himself space to barrel through this without taking off speed to think. He just has to click, find his groove - whatever imagery works.

I think it's a combination of youth and bad luck. The time off (due to injury) before all star weekend seemed to help, and when he came back he looked like a stud, then he got hurt again and he's been lousy since. I don't know how to fix it, and hope he doesn't end up in his head in the future. It's the risk of a talented kid. No point putting him in the AHL, where he'd destroy weaker competition, but if he gets beat enough times in the NHL you wonder about his confidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0