The Devils struggle with their "brand"

[Daniel]

Precisely. Like it or not a defensive-minded, boring, "trap" team with no marketable stars in a fringe league is NOT appealing at all to the average casual sports fan. And I have yet to hear anyone from the Devils come out publicly to even attempt to dismiss that notion.

I'm certain that if the Rangers, had the reputation of being a "defensive-minded, boring, 'trap' team"" that had even close to the success that the Devils have had in the win department, they'd have an even bigger following than they do now, and would be talked about a lot more than they already are.

[Triumph]

I'm certain that if the Rangers, had the reputation of being a "defensive-minded, boring, 'trap' team"" that had even close to the success that the Devils have had in the win department, they'd have an even bigger following than they do now, and would be talked about a lot more than they already are.

100% correct. People don't care if it's 'boring', people care if it wins. Just look at the Rangers' D zone strategy or as I like to call it the Easter Island defense. I don't think I've heard one national media person call the Rangers boring.

[Legion15]

100% correct. People don't care if it's 'boring', people care if it wins. Just look at the Rangers' D zone strategy or as I like to call it the Easter Island defense. I don't think I've heard one national media person call the Rangers boring.

of course not, would they ever call an Original 6 team boring?

[Daniel]

of course not, would they ever call an Original 6 team boring?

The Canadians have been called that especially when they were winning in the seventies. Remember seeing a Hockey News cover on the subject with a picture of a fan in the crowd reading the dictionary.

[Pepperkorn]

I had a whole paragraph I deleted.

If I put on my marketing hat - I wouldn't waste my time with hockey. It has it's market in fans of the sport. The $$ market in NJ is affluent suburban moms looking for a hobby for their sons. MIghty Mite equipment. Ice rinks/paintball courts. mostly though it's in food. Kids go to games for the food. That's what gets the majority of them excited - that is what your parents are going to spend on. Throw out free shirts and have team give-aways whaaahoo. But really there isn't much else to be done.

Marketing a player only benefits the player at the end of the day. And it doesn't keep him in your town either.

Now lets all whine about how the Met has ruined opera... GO! Or shall we talk about Philly's opera company... that's what I'm talking about. Where is the profit when there is pretty much no convincing people to like this -- they like it or they don't.

[DevsMan84]

I had a whole paragraph I deleted.

If I put on my marketing hat - I wouldn't waste my time with hockey. It has it's market in fans of the sport. The $$ market in NJ is affluent suburban moms looking for a hobby for their sons. MIghty Mite equipment. Ice rinks/paintball courts. mostly though it's in food. Kids go to games for the food. That's what gets the majority of them excited - that is what your parents are going to spend on. Throw out free shirts and have team give-aways whaaahoo. But really there isn't much else to be done.

Marketing a player only benefits the player at the end of the day. And it doesn't keep him in your town either.

Now lets all whine about how the Met has ruined opera... GO! Or shall we talk about Philly's opera company... that's what I'm talking about. Where is the profit when there is pretty much no convincing people to like this -- they like it or they don't.

That can almost be a direct quote from the Lou Lam's School of Marketing. It is also silly and very much incorrect. Promoting players also gets the team name out there as well as giving people a hero to cheer about. It is a lot harder for the masses to cheer a faceless logo than single personality that people can aspire and relate to.

Maybe not the best example, but take a look at Lin on the Knicks. The Knicks marketed the hell out of him and I bet you anything more people in NJ know about him, what he looks like and his jersey # than Kovalchuk in 2 years.

[Triumph]

That can almost be a direct quote from the Lou Lam's School of Marketing. It is also silly and very much incorrect. Promoting players also gets the team name out there as well as giving people a hero to cheer about. It is a lot harder for the masses to cheer a faceless logo than single personality that people can aspire and relate to.

Maybe not the best example, but take a look at Lin on the Knicks. The Knicks marketed the hell out of him and I bet you anything more people in NJ know about him, what he looks like and his jersey # than Kovalchuk in 2 years.

yeah, i bet having ESPN lead off with lin stories for a week, or him being on the back page of all the new york tabloids for 2 weeks, didn't help. do the knicks own those companies?

the best marketing in sports is free, and the devils will never get that free marketing.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Triumph

[DevsMan84]

yeah, i bet having ESPN lead off with lin stories for a week, or him being on the back page of all the new york tabloids for 2 weeks, didn't help. do the knicks own those companies?

the best marketing in sports is free, and the devils will never get that free marketing.

Alright another example: If you went back to the summer of 2003 and asked people in NJ who Elias was and who Jason Kidd was, I will bet anything that more people knew who Kidd was before Elias. Both went to the finals that year, Elias even won the cup and Kidd lost in the finals. Also I have the papers of the NY Post and Daily News through both the NHL and NBA finals that year and they both gave about the same amount of coverage to both.

The Nets put a lot of effort into marketing Kidd at the time and it paid off.

The only reason Brodeur gets recognition beyond the Garden State is because he is the GREATEST GOALIE IN NHL HISTORY. Without some marketing help the rest of the Devils don't have a chance.

Edited March 14, 2012 by DevsMan84

[Marv4Life]

More people knew who Jason Collins, Lucious Harris and Brian Scalabrine were than Patrik Elias, let alone someone like Jason Kidd.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Marv4Life

[DevsMan84]

More people knew who Jason Collins, Lucious Harris and Brian Scalabrine were than Patrik Elias, let alone someone like Jason Kidd.

Yet Elias is one of our franchise players. If the nets, as paltry of attendance and success on the court are, can get those names out there then the devils can do. However with Lou Lams in there that won't happen. It really took JVB to go over Lou's head and start a marketing department to get the ball rolling.

[DaneykoIsGod]

Alright another example: If you went back to the summer of 2003 and asked people in NJ who Elias was and who Jason Kidd was, I will bet anything that more people knew who Kidd was before Elias. Both went to the finals that year, Elias even won the cup and Kidd lost in the finals. And this is just talking about the NJ market.

The Nets put a lot of effort into marketing Kidd at the time and it paid off.

The only reason Brodeur gets recognition beyond the Garden State is because he is the GREATEST GOALIE IN NHL HISTORY. Without some marketing help the rest of the Devils don't have a chance.

Hockey and basketball are two different beasts.

Hockey simply is not a priority in the local sports media. Basketball, baseball, and football will always trump it. And in the limited time and space the sports media does give to hockey, the city teams will always trump the Jersey team. Face it, we're a niche sport whose team is going against the NY and Philly media with ... what ... NJN, CN8, and 101.5 to call our own? And even those media outlets don't matter because, in order for Jersey's team to get any attention at all, we have to sign a contract with a NYC network named after the arena our biggest rival calls home.

The Devils' biggest problem is that too many New Jersey hockey fans don't root for the New Jersey hockey team. And part of that problem is the fact that a lot of New Jerseyans don't identify with New Jersey as much as they do with New York or Philly, depending on which city they're living in a suburb of. Could marketing help with that? Maybe. But most of it seems to stem from "My Dad was a Rangers fan, so I am too." Commercials probably wouldn't lessen a boy's desire to bond with his father over a sports team.

The only solution is simple: Kick Rangers fans in the nuts until they are incapable of fathering Rangers fan children.

[Devil Dan 56]

For a team who has been around for 30 years with 3 Cups, numerous postseason appearances with multiple division and conference titles and a few legit Hall-of-Famers, the idea that geography is the big problem is just an excuse. While they were legit Cup contenders they had plenty of time to market themselves to gain new fans and cultivate an audience when the Rangers were sucking and the Flyers weren't on the Devils' level.

If anything, that PROVES that geography is a huge part of the problem. The Devils were that last team into the area. It's going to be hardest for them to get fans. Usually, you follow the team that your older relatives did. Add to that, it's the least popular sport when it comes to main stream media. The reason a trash team like the Rags from 1998-2005 were more popular than the Devils was because their fanbase had been ingrained here for generations. Plus main stream NY media rarely pays attention to hockey, but when it does, it thinks 1994 was last Thursday.

[Devilsfan118]

The only solution is simple: Kick Rangers fans in the nuts until they are incapable of fathering Rangers fan children.

Where do I sign up?

[Triumph]

Alright another example: If you went back to the summer of 2003 and asked people in NJ who Elias was and who Jason Kidd was, I will bet anything that more people knew who Kidd was before Elias. Both went to the finals that year, Elias even won the cup and Kidd lost in the finals. And this is just talking about the NJ market.

The Nets put a lot of effort into marketing Kidd at the time and it paid off.

The only reason Brodeur gets recognition beyond the Garden State is because he is the GREATEST GOALIE IN NHL HISTORY. Without some marketing help the rest of the Devils don't have a chance.

Oh good, more cart before horse logic.

See, the thing about basketball is, if you watch 1 game you know who the best players probably are. If you want to see Jason Kidd, you've heard about how good he is, and if you watch one Nets game, you will see him make a great pass or hit an open shot or two. You'll experience Jason Kidd. The NBA exists on the back of the best players, and everyone involved in the sport knows that - that people love watching the top 20 NBA players. The best players play for 5/6ths of the game, whereas in hockey, they don't even play for half. In hockey, goals are infrequent - the best goal scorers still have more games without goals than with. Patrik Elias is a great player, but he scored 29 goals that year, hardly a world-beater. He's from another country, one that most people can't point to on a map.

Jason Kidd is a first ballot Hall of Fame player, an all-time great point guard. His presence on the Nets was the only thing that got them close to the Finals.

[95Crash]

yeah, i bet having ESPN lead off with lin stories for a week, or him being on the back page of all the new york tabloids for 2 weeks, didn't help. do the knicks own those companies?

the best marketing in sports is free, and the devils will never get that free marketing.

I couldn't agree more with that last sentence.

However, I also agree with the article -- and those who agree with the gist of it -- that the Devils need to keep working on improving their brand/marketing. I believe, too, that the team has been trying to do that the last few years, especially since Vanderbeek took over the team.

[Colin226]

The team's social media marketing alone netted an extra $500k in the first year.. The team markets itself a lot more than most other NYC area teams.. Billboards, radio ads on multiple stations like 101.5 and WFAN, social media, targeted Google banner ads.. Hell, they even put every home game in my towns calendar.. Viewing parties and the Jersey Tour are other good examples

The Devils sucked at marketing prior to moving to the Rock, but to say they are still doing a poor job is ridiculous.. Just because people don't come to games does not mean they do poor marketing..

The Devils market themselves more than most teams in the area but our issue is we have a crowded sports market, an overcrowded hockey market, and the fan base as a whole just doesn't seem to care about games except for a handful during the season and the playoffs

[DevsMan84]

Oh good, more cart before horse logic.

See, the thing about basketball is, if you watch 1 game you know who the best players probably are. If you want to see Jason Kidd, you've heard about how good he is, and if you watch one Nets game, you will see him make a great pass or hit an open shot or two. You'll experience Jason Kidd. The NBA exists on the back of the best players, and everyone involved in the sport knows that - that people love watching the top 20 NBA players. The best players play for 5/6ths of the game, whereas in hockey, they don't even play for half. In hockey, goals are infrequent - the best goal scorers still have more games without goals than with. Patrik Elias is a great player, but he scored 29 goals that year, hardly a world-beater. He's from another country, one that most people can't point to on a map.

Jason Kidd is a first ballot Hall of Fame player, an all-time great point guard. His presence on the Nets was the only thing that got them close to the Finals.

To say Jason Kidd is a first ballot hall of fame player is quite a stretch. He is very good, but that is very much stretching it. Kidd also Had a very good supporting cast with him and when management cut corners to saw money as well as other reasons they went into decline. He helped them but wasnt the only reason.

I bet if you put up kidd against brodeur in 2003 more people will say they know Kidd better and you cannot use the other country and playing time excuse.

Also I can't remember the last time I responded to a post by PK outside the beer thread that you rushed to her defense with a condescending reply. I actually had the thought in my head when I replied to her post earlier and knew you were going to say something.

Edited March 14, 2012 by DevsMan84

[DevsMan84]

The team's social media marketing alone netted an extra $500k in the first year.. The team markets itself a lot more than most other NYC area teams.. Billboards, radio ads on multiple stations like 101.5 and WFAN, social media, targeted Google banner ads.. Hell, they even put every home game in my towns calendar.. Viewing parties and the Jersey Tour are other good examples

The Devils sucked at marketing prior to moving to the Rock, but to say they are still doing a poor job is ridiculous.. Just because people don't come to games does not mean they do poor marketing..

The Devils market themselves more than most teams in the area but our issue is we have a crowded sports market, an overcrowded hockey market, and the fan base as a whole just doesn't seem to care about games except for a handful during the season and the playoffs

The Devils have done a lot better in the last five years at marketing mostly because it is JVB doing it whether Lou likes it or not.

Also for the social media part, you really don't target new fans with that. Unless you have already liked or followed the devils on Facebook and twitter you are not snaring in new fans.

[Dead]

The above might be true, but ticket specials will be more likely to get fans in the seats at the rock.

[DevsMan84]

The above might be true, but ticket specials will be more likely to get fans in the seats at the rock.

Almost every game there is a ticket special. How much more can they do without pissing off the STH?

[Triumph]

To say Jason Kidd is a first ballot hall of fame player is quite a stretch. He is very good, but that is very much stretching it. Kidd also Had a very good supporting cast with him and when management cut corners to saw money as well as other reasons they went into decline. He helped them but wasnt the only reason.

Kidd is a first-ballot hall of famer. He took a largely average team to the Finals 3 times. He's 2nd all time in assists. 2nd all time in steals. A 10-time All Star in a sport where that actually matters to some degree.

I bet if you put up kidd against brodeur in 2003 more people will say they know Kidd better and you cannot use the other country and playing time excuse.

You're right, Brodeur is from the US, and a part of the US that speaks the same language as us too. Of course more people know Jason Kidd - basketball is more popular, he's a bigger star, and, this is probably circumstantial, but he was certainly a more important player in his prime.

Also I can't remember the last time I responded to a post by PK outside the beer thread that you rushed to her defense with a condescending reply. I actually had the thought in my head when I replied to her post earlier and knew you were going to say something.

We've all seen that you've had memory problems before, so this is also no surprise.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Triumph

[DevsMan84]

Kidd is a first-ballot hall of famer. He took a largely average team to the Finals 3 times. He's 2nd all time in assists. 2nd all time in steals. A 10-time All Star in a sport where that actually matters to some degree.

You're right, Brodeur is from the US, and a part of the US that speaks the same language as us too. Of course more people know Jason Kidd - basketball is more popular, he's a bigger star, and, this is probably circumstantial, but he was certainly a more important player in his prime.

Might want to fix that to Canada there

We've all seen that you've had memory problems before, so this is also no surprise.

Shall we go over your recollection of how you became a fan in 1996? When I brought it up you said that you were a fan earlier but then other posters even chimned in saying that you did indeed post that on here. You then tried to pass it off and ask us do we trust what you wrote here in plain english or what you remember doing.

Since even you said we cannot trust what you write here, then I guess all your posts are nonsense.

[sundstrom]

i'm a little late to the party here but the attendance issue is so much more about the crowded sports landscape in the area than costs. costs matter, but there are clearly enough people in the area that will spend money to fill a hockey arena every night. if you want to add MSG, NVMC and the Rock attendance together this "market" basically packs in a winter classic for every game.

only LA is comparable to the NY/NJ Metro area in terms of "home teams".

Rangers fans aren't going to go to Devils vs Florida because its cheap. They don't care about those teams. And Rangers fans are either born that way b/c of familial bias, drawn to the "aura" of NY teams, or idiots. In seriousness, the number of Devils fans are growing. I can tell you PLENTY of my friends who are Rangers fans whose children are Devils fans (to their chagrin) because they identify with here because those are the games they go to and they actually get the "New Jersey" part of the sport.

as for the chicago reference and the fact that they "marketed better" and that's why their crowds came back - that's ludicrous. they sucked and drew dick. they got a lot of high draft picks and made an excellent trade for pat sharp and got good. with no other hockey team to compete with, and the bulls not being all that good, their fans returned to what had become an event.

[iamtheprodigy]

Shall we go over your recollection of how you became a fan in 1996? When I brought it up you said that you were a fan earlier but then other posters even chimned in saying that you did indeed post that on here. You then tried to pass it off and ask us do we trust what you wrote here in plain english or what you remember doing.

Since even you said we cannot trust what you write here, then I guess all your posts are nonsense.

Oh brother. Please let's not turn this into another "board politics" thread. There is a lot of interesting discussion going on about the Devils here, don't ruin it with this nonsense.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

If anything, that PROVES that geography is a huge part of the problem. The Devils were that last team into the area. It's going to be hardest for them to get fans. Usually, you follow the team that your older relatives did. Add to that, it's the least popular sport when it comes to main stream media. The reason a trash team like the Rags from 1998-2005 were more popular than the Devils was because their fanbase had been ingrained here for generations. Plus main stream NY media rarely pays attention to hockey, but when it does, it thinks 1994 was last Thursday.

Here's a post I made in the McMullen thread...not only does it illustrate what the Devils were up against in 1982, but it shows that even though McMullen deserves kudos for being the guy who brought NHL hockey to NJ (doesn't matter if he's likable or not), he clearly wasn't the right guy to try to make inroads into the established fanbases of the Rangers, Islanders, and Flyers:

In bold: I think this is what McMullen deserves the most criticism for [poor marketing strategy or lack thereof], though I think he and Lou are a two-headed monster on this one. Not only was his team moving into an incredibly crowded hockey market as it was, but look at the teams: one was the very best team in the NHL at the time in the Islanders, another had a strong multi-generational fan base in the Rangers, and a third, the Flyers, had already enjoyed success with two Stanley Cups, and had pretty much nabbed whatever hockey fans there were in South Jersey as their own. McMullen needed to be as proactive and aggressive as possible in trying to dig into those fanbases, as well as attempting to reel in the casual fans who maybe thought the NHL was kind of cool, but hadn't committed to a team yet. This was especially crucial since the on-ice product he was bringing to NJ was clearly not going to be any good for some time. He seemed to think having a team with "New Jersey" in front of its nickname would take care of everything, and that fans would automatically show up because, hey, this team plays in New Jersey!

The team was the "best kept secret" in the NHL for far too long when McMullen was the owner, except when, of course, the Devils' success and the way they went about it put them on the map as hockey killers and sleep inducers in the eyes of the masses. It would be interesting to see where the Devils might be today, from a fan standpoint, if McMullen had some of Vanderbeek's more personable and creative personality traits.

And yeah, it doesn't help that that the Devils moved into a market that was already well-spoken for, as far as major league sports go.

I think the one guy who could've made a huge difference in the long run for the Devils would've been Mario Lemieux, if McMullen had said "fvck it" in 1983, and decided not to try to get the team to start playing better out of pride. The Devils had clearly had some good players back in the 80s, but a guy like Lemieux would've given them that all-time, all-century talent that would've given the Devils instant attention...even though the team would still have been bad for awhile, suddenly one of the two best players in the NHL would be a New Jersey Devil. I've often wondered how an alternate Lemieux/Devils timeline would've worked out, on a number of different fronts.