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Hedberg or Brodeur

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Guys, don't any of you remember 2000-01? Hedberg was the goalie who took the Penguins to the Conference Finals against the Devils...Devils won that series 4-1. He played in 18 playoff games that season. But he's only appeared in four playoff games since: 2 with Vancouver, and 2 with Atlanta.

Pardon me for being dense, but I fail to see the point. Getting blown out by the Devils disqualifies him even though he's a huge part of the reason why the Pens got that far? And as for the rest of his career, his lack of playoff appearances isn't quite his fault. He was in Pittsburgh two more years and they sucked. Then he turned 30 and was a backup for the rest of his career, most of which was in Atlanta.

However, I believe your overall premise is that Hedberg isn't the guy to lean on in the playoffs. I agree, but it's not a knock on Moose. Even though he's a shadow of his former self, Marty Brodeur is still Marty Brodeur, and as far as I'm concerned, it's his job to lose.

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CR was just correcting people who said Hedberg had never been in the playoffs before, or hadn't had 'much' playoff experience. He had it, just not recently.

It's not legitimate to wonder if Hedberg should start the playoffs. It is legitimate to wonder what point Hedberg should play in the playoffs if Marty has more games like he's been having since he had two and a half games' worth of work on the St. Patty's Day massacre.

And it's become obvious Marty needs to sit at least another game before the playoffs (even with no back to backs) since he's given up at least a bad goal a game for a week and surrendered what, 13 goals in his last three? While Hedberg's surrendered one in his last three. Nothing wrong with actually using a useful backup.

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CR was just correcting people who said Hedberg had never been in the playoffs before, or hadn't had 'much' playoff experience. He had it, just not recently.

It's not legitimate to wonder if Hedberg should start the playoffs. It is legitimate to wonder what point Hedberg should play in the playoffs if Marty has more games like he's been having since he had two and a half games' worth of work on the St. Patty's Day massacre.

And it's become obvious Marty needs to sit at least another game before the playoffs (even with no back to backs) since he's given up at least a bad goal a game for a week and surrendered what, 13 goals in his last three? While Hedberg's surrendered one in his last three. Nothing wrong with actually using a useful backup.

You could go that route or you could argue that Marty needs a few games to get back in a groove or confidence back (that is to say if he lost it). He's pretty good though of having some bad games and moving on, however.

I think the Hedberg argument is pointless. The Devils are rolling with Marty most likely to the end. PDB might feel comfortbale with Hedberg, but things would have to get pretty interesting for him to go with Hedberg (say Brodeur gets pulled after giving up 3 goals on 6 shots. The Devils end up winning 4-3 in double OT after Hedberg makes 40 saves in relief).

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Ride AND die with #30

fixed...and I don't mean that as a point to use Marty as a way to bypass any other issues the Devils have (lack of scoring, defensive breakdowns). But the fact of the matter is we have been down this road before, its the way of the Devils. No matter how good we are we never seem to win games consistently in spite of Marty. And thats why the haters will hate and the realists will have a debate at all. If Marty plays poorly (as he has been the past few games) then we lose, plain and simple. But come playoff time, I wouldn't want anyone else in net.

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fixed...and I don't mean that as a point to use Marty as a way to bypass any other issues the Devils have (lack of scoring, defensive breakdowns). But the fact of the matter is we have been down this road before, its the way of the Devils. No matter how good we are we never seem to win games consistently in spite of Marty. And thats why the haters will hate and the realists will have a debate at all. If Marty plays poorly (as he has been the past few games) then we lose, plain and simple. But come playoff time, I wouldn't want anyone else in net.

That's the thing with the playoffs though. Teams don't win in spite of goaltending very often. Look at every Cup winning goalie in the past 20 years. Except for Fleury in 2009 and Niemi in 2010, the goalie of the winning team has been superb, while I'd say 12-15 of the past 20, the goalies have been the difference.

You don't usually win in the playoffs when a goalie gives up 3 goals. A lot of the times you don't win many games when a goalie gives up two.

Edited by devilsrule33

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I'm just tired of hearing Marty getting glorified throughout this season, putting up pedestrian type numbers.

i wouldnt say he had a pedestrian season. just a bad streak over the last couple of weeks.

You don't usually win in the playoffs when a goalie gives up 3 goals. A lot of the times you don't win many games when a goalie gives up two.

but whats the garentee that moose would s.o. teams come playoff time

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That's the thing with the playoffs though. Teams don't win in spite of goaltending very often. Look at every Cup winning goalie in the past 20 years. Except for Fleury in 2009 and Niemi in 2010, the goalie of the winning team has been superb, while I'd say 12-15 of the past 20, the goalies have been the difference.

You don't usually win in the playoffs when a goalie gives up 3 goals. A lot of the times you don't win many games when a goalie gives up two.

I agree, and I'm not saying that we will win anything. And we definitely won't win with Marty playing like he has (with the Toronto game being the epicenter of just how badly he is playing...say what you will about it but Marty looked like a minor leaguer out there in the shoot out). But as much as I love Moose, he is just a back up. Sure he's got pretty good stats in the small sample size of games he's played but there's nothing indicating that he'll carry that over into the playoffs or even through an extended amount of games. Its not like we are talking some young, hot goalie with tons of potential, we are talking about starting our back up goalie over our starter because our starter is having a rough stretch. At this point we live AND die by our starter. The team needs to be focused on finding the future, not hoping a back up will get hot during a playoff stretch when our starter isn't playing well.

The question I'm trying to answer isn't whether or not we will go far in the playoffs. And I'm not trying to figure out if Brodeur deserves to start with the way he's been playing. The only thing I'm trying to answer, in my own opinion, is whether Marty should get the nod over Hedberg in the playoffs and the short answer is yes...no contest, and that's for better or worse.

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Like Dan said, Hedberg is thriving in his backup role. A backup statistically outplaying Brodeur when his starts are extremely limited isn't exactly without precedent.

2002-03

Martin Brodeur - 41-23-9, .914 sv%, 2.02 GAA

Corey Schwab - 5-3-1, .933 sv%, 1.47 GAA

I guess we should rolled with Knuckles instead of Marty in '03, right?

It also happened in '03-04 (with Clemmer and Schwab), '09-10 (Yann Danis) and last year with Moose. Devils backups can thrive when Marty is in workhorse mode.

Moose is playing his best right now in his limited role, yet we all saw how average he could be when he shouldered more of the load earlier in the season. At the same time, we're seeing Brodeur play better the more he works. Why would anyone in their right mind want to sit Marty and work Moose right now?

I'm in the camp that rolls with Marty for the first two games, and if they go badly, give Game 3 to Moose. It's Brodeur's job to lose.

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Like Dan said, Hedberg is thriving in his backup role. A backup statistically outplaying Brodeur when his starts are extremely limited isn't exactly without precedent.

2002-03

Martin Brodeur - 41-23-9, .914 sv%, 2.02 GAA

Corey Schwab - 5-3-1, .933 sv%, 1.47 GAA

I guess we should rolled with Knuckles instead of Marty in '03, right?

It also happened in '03-04 (with Clemmer and Schwab), '09-10 (Yann Danis) and last year with Moose. Devils backups can thrive when Marty is in workhorse mode.

Moose is playing his best right now in his limited role, yet we all saw how average he could be when he shouldered more of the load earlier in the season. At the same time, we're seeing Brodeur play better the more he works. Why would anyone in their right mind want to sit Marty and work Moose right now?

I'm in the camp that rolls with Marty for the first two games, and if they go badly, give Game 3 to Moose. It's Brodeur's job to lose.

Hahahaha cmon you know very well thats not a legit comparison

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Pardon me for being dense, but I fail to see the point. Getting blown out by the Devils disqualifies him even though he's a huge part of the reason why the Pens got that far? And as for the rest of his career, his lack of playoff appearances isn't quite his fault. He was in Pittsburgh two more years and they sucked. Then he turned 30 and was a backup for the rest of his career, most of which was in Atlanta.

However, I believe your overall premise is that Hedberg isn't the guy to lean on in the playoffs. I agree, but it's not a knock on Moose. Even though he's a shadow of his former self, Marty Brodeur is still Marty Brodeur, and as far as I'm concerned, it's his job to lose.

My only point was that he had had playoff experience before. I wasn't making any statements about Hedberg otherwise. NJDevs4978 got what I was going for.

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I don't get why people keep glorifying Marty right now. He hasn't been playing all that great for the past few weeks. Yeah he's the greatest to play and yeah this is his team but right now looking into the playoffs the team winning is the most important thing and we have to play the hot hand. Moose has been really good in his past few starts so why not give him a chance? The team I feel plays better with him for some reason

Edited by nmm90392

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LOL at people glorifying Marty just because we recognize he should start the playoffs because of who he is and that we don't believe Hedberg will get two shutouts every three games if he played more. You don't play these games in a vacuum or on a computer. Real human emotions and psychology goes into it.

Besides, if there's anyplace that 'doesn't' glorify Marty, it's this board.

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And if Moose is in and the team loses in 5, how smart does it look knowing you had your franchise HOF goalie sitting on the bench because Moose played really well recently in his spot starts? I mean, we're calling for Moose in the playoffs based on wins over the Capitals, Islanders, and Senators.

Have we looked at what happened when Moose was starting consistently? Better yet, here's the teams Moose has beaten this year...

Carolina (not in playoffs)

Los Angeles (8th place)

Nashville (4th place)

Philadelphia (5th place)

Washington (8th place)

NY Islanders (not in playoffs)

Ottawa (7th place)

Tampa (not in playoffs)

Dallas (3rd place)

Florida (3rd place)

Edmonton (not in playoffs)

So... 4th place, 5th place, 7th place, two 8 places, 4 non playoff teams, and two 3rd places who would be ranked 7th if not for divisional seeding.

And I say this as a big Moose fan, but he's a back up.

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CR was just correcting people who said Hedberg had never been in the playoffs before, or hadn't had 'much' playoff experience. He had it, just not recently.

Ah, okay, got it. Like I said, I was a bit dense back there. :doh1:

And it's become obvious Marty needs to sit at least another game before the playoffs (even with no back to backs) since he's given up at least a bad goal a game for a week and surrendered what, 13 goals in his last three? While Hedberg's surrendered one in his last three. Nothing wrong with actually using a useful backup.

I can agree with that. It's still Marty's job to lose, but it wouldn't hurt to rest him again down the stretch.

My only point was that he had had playoff experience before. I wasn't making any statements about Hedberg otherwise. NJDevs4978 got what I was going for.

Right, I saw that. Sorry, I must not have been paying close enough attention. :cheers:

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Didn't read most of the thread, just wanted to weigh in.

Moose has far outplayed Marty this year, and it would be blind loyalty to go with Marty in the playoffs. Some stats (out of 44 goalies that have qualified with 25 GP):

Sv%: Hedberg 18th, Marty 35th (out of 44)

GAA: Hedberg 10th, Marty 22nd

Games over .500: Hedberg 16-7-2 (7 over .500), Marty 26-21-4 (1 over .500)

Moose is 6-1in his last 7 starts, and deserves at least a shot at being the guy in the playoffs.

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Didn't read most of the thread, just wanted to weigh in.

Moose has far outplayed Marty this year, and it would be blind loyalty to go with Marty in the playoffs. Some stats (out of 44 goalies that have qualified with 25 GP):

Sv%: Hedberg 18th, Marty 35th (out of 44)

GAA: Hedberg 10th, Marty 22nd

Games over .500: Hedberg 16-7-2 (7 over .500), Marty 26-21-4 (1 over .500)

Moose is 6-1in his last 7 starts, and deserves at least a shot at being the guy in the playoffs.

That's great, but it ignores the fact that Moose played mostly teams that were low seeds or out of the playoffs.

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That's great, but it ignores the fact that Moose played mostly teams that were low seeds or out of the playoffs.

SV% isn't really affected by this, though.

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That's great, but it ignores the fact that Moose played mostly teams that were low seeds or out of the playoffs.

He beat Philly Ottawa and the Kings(they were good early) twice and Florida once.

IF we play the Panthers I want to see Hedberg in net because Brodeur had major problems with the Versteeg line. Brodeur was 1-2 versus Florida this yr with Versteeg scoring 5 goals against him. But of course this will never happen because Marty will play every playoff gm making this whole thread moot.

I'm more comfortable with Hedberg in net because his positioning is better and even when he does'nt see a shot he will still make the save. Marty played good this year but I am NEVER comfortable when he's playing.

Edited by Zubie#8

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The 18th best save percentage in hockey doesn't win a series. I'm not saying Marty's been good at all, but we gotta hope we catch lightning in a bottle with Marty. I don't see it happening with Moose. No disrespect, I really like the Moose, but as has been said here, there is a reason he's a backup.

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SV% isn't really affected by this, though.

Which is why I brought up Schwab, Clemmer, and Danis earlier. They've all posted superior numbers to Brodeur when getting limited starts. I'm not sure which exact factor to point to, but there's something about getting spot duty behind Brodeur that can make unspectacular goalies post otherworldly numbers.

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That's great, but it ignores the fact that Moose played mostly teams that were low seeds or out of the playoffs.

Not to mention the fact Marty's had a good second half after a horrid first half that dragged his numbers into the abyss. So we're gonna bench him in April based on bad October-mid December play.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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Bottom line: Marty's going to play all playoff games, fatigue rather quickly and we'll either barely beat the Panthers or lose.

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