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Mayday

Torres suspended for 25 games

47 posts in this topic

Times have changed though. You would have never heard a conversation about whether or not they should get rid of fighting back then. Its sad to say but hockey has become a different sport since then.

That's my whole point. I think the game is fine the way it was.

You pay me $550,000 a year and I'll go out there and get my bell rung once in a while.

Plus, one could make the argument that it is on the player who was hit to protect himself. Keep your head up, don't put yourself in a vulnerable position. Start holding the hurt players accountable. Just because they get hurt shouldn't mean assume rightful responsibility for failing to keep their head up.

edit - It should be the onus of the player to keep his head up, not on the checker.

Edited by Devils Pride 26

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In those comparison videos, Stevens didn't leave his feet, Torres did. If Torres didn't leave his feet, it's a clean hit.

I still think it's funny he didn't even get a penalty during the game for it, yet he gets 25 games after the fact.

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Times have changed though. You would have never heard a conversation about whether or not they should get rid of fighting back then. Its sad to say but hockey has become a different sport since then.

Contact/Collision sports such as hockey and football have come under a huge microscope with the focus on concussions that's occured the last 2 years. The culture of headhunting and playing after getting one's bell rung has opened these leagues to class action lawsuits by former players. This is added to the bigger-faster-stronger nature of all sports and this is why this culture is being forced to change.

Torres had the book thrown at him because he's a multiple repeat offender over the course of years. Matt Cooke and Chris Pronger would have probably received the same. The question will be if Ovechkin does something like this because Ovie does have a history especially with kneeing.

I totally agree with the suspension and the reasoning for it is explained quite clear.

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That's my whole point. I think the game is fine the way it was.

You pay me $550,000 a year and I'll go out there and get my bell rung once in a while.

Plus, one could make the argument that it is on the player who was hit to protect himself. Keep your head up, don't put yourself in a vulnerable position. Start holding the hurt players accountable. Just because they get hurt shouldn't mean assume rightful responsibility for failing to keep their head up.

edit - It should be the onus of the player to keep his head up, not on the checker.

Sorry, none of this holds water with me.

1: I don't like watching people get hurt. I recognize that hockey is a contact sport and people will get injured, and will sometimes suffer debilitating injury as a result. But it doesn't make me feel all tingly inside watching it.

2: 'Getting your bell rung' is exactly the kind of language the NHL needs to get away from. The latest medical research suggests that the combined effects of head hits are dangerous and severely lower one's quality of life in later years. I don't care how much they're getting paid - to paraphrase Don Draper, that's not what the money's for. The money is for being exceptional at entertaining people via a game.

3: It's very clear that putting the onus on players to 'keep their head up' is not tenable for the NHL anymore. It's an extremely fast game. Even the most attentive player can fail to be careful for a millisecond and then boom.

Frankly, I think both mc79hockey and theoryofice had great articles on the hit this week:

http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=4601

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2012/04/18/hard-times/

I think the suspension is a tad excessive but Torres is a repeat offender who shows no signs of altering his game. The NHL has made it clear - change your game or you'll sit for even longer.

Edited by Triumph

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While the hit itself wasn't that bad, the result and the fact that Torres is a multiple time offender definitely makes the 25 games appropriate. It remains to be seen if everyone will be held to the same standard (so far they clearly aren't) but in this case the suspension was right.

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In those comparison videos, Stevens didn't leave his feet, Torres did. If Torres didn't leave his feet, it's a clean hit.

I still think it's funny he didn't even get a penalty during the game for it, yet he gets 25 games after the fact.

No. It's still interference and a breach of rule 48.

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No. It's still interference and a breach of rule 48.

Right. Stevens would be sat for several games had he made that hit on Kariya these days. Different game.

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25 does initially seem harsh but when you consider the past history, it's not a big surprise. Torres has shown numerous times in the past that he doesn't mind going for a guy's head if he can. The league is sending a message to him in particular and to the league as a whole that you need to change your mindset if you think that hits like that are okay. Suspensions are going to ramp up quickly for repeat offenders, that's how it should be. The game is fast-paced and emotional, so even clean players may land ugly and ugly hit or two. They deserve punishment as well, but it's the people who time and time again do this that will receive the big suspensions like this.

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Garbage. Hit was fine. Rules getting way too soft. Stevens would have been arrested and tossed in jail if he played now.

Yep. Imagine if Lindros and Stevens played today. They would be server time in the NHL jail.

The NHL is a joke. So Neal does the same hit to Courtier but since Courtier is taller and doesn't leave on a stretcher it's 24 less games. Plus Neal TARGETED the head and Torres didn't.

Then Malkin is allowed to throw elbows into heads and concuss people and he doesn't even get a hearing.

F U Shanahan and NHL.

I hope the NHLPA just walks away from these owners/league this summer and starts their own league. This sport has sucked since the 2005 lockout and it becomes more and more of a joke every year.

Watch this hit and tell me Neal was trying to "jump" out of the way from hitting Courtier. He got ZERO games for this and he WAS a repeat offender. He clearly was targeting Courtier's head and hit him WAY after the puck was gone. Then like 40 seconds later he skated down the ice and elbowed Giroux in the head (what he actually got suspended for).

Edited by Eztarget

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Sorry, none of this holds water with me.

1: I don't like watching people get hurt. I recognize that hockey is a contact sport and people will get injured, and will sometimes suffer debilitating injury as a result. But it doesn't make me feel all tingly inside watching it.

2: 'Getting your bell rung' is exactly the kind of language the NHL needs to get away from. The latest medical research suggests that the combined effects of head hits are dangerous and severely lower one's quality of life in later years. I don't care how much they're getting paid - to paraphrase Don Draper, that's not what the money's for. The money is for being exceptional at entertaining people via a game.

3: It's very clear that putting the onus on players to 'keep their head up' is not tenable for the NHL anymore. It's an extremely fast game. Even the most attentive player can fail to be careful for a millisecond and then boom.

Frankly, I think both mc79hockey and theoryofice had great articles on the hit this week:

http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=4601

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2012/04/18/hard-times/

I think the suspension is a tad excessive but Torres is a repeat offender who shows no signs of altering his game. The NHL has made it clear - change your game or you'll sit for even longer.

Yeah, I'm fully aware that my opinion is not the popular one. I don't want to give the perception that I am chest beating wild man who can't reason either. The thing that worries me is the consistency of the calls. Three big things that stand out to me: I can see Torres getting 25 compared to Hagelin getting 3 based off reasons already mentioned. But Weber smashing Zetterberg's head against the boards getting nothing? Outrageous. Potentially more dangerous than these two hits. We all heard the talk about Hags potentially getting more games than he should have since Alfie got hurt, which is another flaw.

Also, I assume you would be for this based on prior posts, but fighting should be thrown out as well, based off the NHL's protection of head shots. Has to be way more dangerous throwing blows at each other for 30 seconds.

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Also, I assume you would be for this based on prior posts, but fighting should be thrown out as well, based off the NHL's protection of head shots. Has to be way more dangerous throwing blows at each other for 30 seconds.

I want head shots out but I want fighting to remain. Very, very few head injuries or concussions are caused by fighting. More often than not it's the guys falling to the ice without their helmet that causes it.

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The NHL is first and foremost a business, and the fans that pay money on the sport like goals, hits, FIGHTS, rivalries, end to end action and mayhem. This is what sells tickets and puts money in the leagues pocket. The NHL should've bowed down before Claude in 96, because that Wings/Avs rivalry was milked for all that it was worth...and it started with a cheap shot. And it got HUGE attention everywhere. ESPN would lead with fights from Avs/Wings. ESPN! What brought Rags/Isles to the next level? The Potvin hit (who knows if it was dirty or clean, footage was grainy) but it led to decades of on ice mayhem and sold out arenas.

The NHL is an emotional, passion driven game. Players are always on the edge and sometimes their emotions get the best of them. If the NHL continues to chip away at the passion driving the sport...it's going to end up shooting itself right in the wallet. Because nobody wants sterile no contact ping pong on ice.

Edited by '7'

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I want head shots out but I want fighting to remain. Very, very few head injuries or concussions are caused by fighting. More often than not it's the guys falling to the ice without their helmet that causes it.

I don't think this is true, in comparison to head shots. Very, very few head injuries or concussion producing hits to the head are thrown throughout the NHL season. As triumph stated, it is long term effects we are talking about. You cannot prove that few injuries are a result of fighting. It makes 0 sense to remove head shots but not fighting. I bet within ten years fighting will be gone if head shots continue to be enforced this way.

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Yep. Imagine if Lindros and Stevens played today. They would be server time in the NHL jail.

The NHL is a joke. So Neal does the same hit to Courtier but since Courtier is taller and doesn't leave on a stretcher it's 24 less games. Plus Neal TARGETED the head and Torres didn't.

Then Malkin is allowed to throw elbows into heads and concuss people and he doesn't even get a hearing.

F U Shanahan and NHL.

I hope the NHLPA just walks away from these owners/league this summer and starts their own league. This sport has sucked since the 2005 lockout and it becomes more and more of a joke every year.

Watch this hit and tell me Neal was trying to "jump" out of the way from hitting Courtier. He got ZERO games for this and he WAS a repeat offender. He clearly was targeting Courtier's head and hit him WAY after the puck was gone. Then like 40 seconds later he skated down the ice and elbowed Giroux in the head (what he actually got suspended for).

I think there is some plausible deniability on the part of Neal making that hit on Couturier. The fact that the puck isn't even close to Couturier, the fact that Neal changes direction - it doesn't make that much sense to have somehow lined up Couturier and caught him sleeping. I do think Neal didn't try to avoid the hit once he found it. He should've gotten more time.

Anyway, it is rich that a Flyer fan would complain about the league office not making enough suspensions.

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If he doesn't leave his feet, that's a clean hit. I'm sorry, but watch it at full speed.

When he turned toward Hossa to make the hit the puck was already gone. He wasn't just finishing a check. He started the check after the puck was gone.

Really not that much different. Almost same time between losing the puck. Torres puts his shoulder in Hossa's head, Stevens forearm hits Kariya.

Stevens was already headed towards Kariya when he lost the puck. Stevens never left his feet, even after the hit. The head contact was because Torres jumped before the hit. It's a totally different play.

In those comparison videos, Stevens didn't leave his feet, Torres did. If Torres didn't leave his feet, it's a clean hit.

If Torres doesn't leave his feet, there's no head contact, and we wouldn't even be talking about it. It wouldn't even be borderline. It's 100% Torres fault and it's a dirty hit.

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If Torres doesn't leave his feet, there's no head contact, and we wouldn't even be talking about it. It wouldn't even be borderline. It's 100% Torres fault and it's a dirty hit.

That's the key thing. He clearly left his feet, and the only reason to do that is to target the head. That makes intent to injure obvious. When a 5 time offender does that, it needs to get penalized.

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In those comparison videos, Stevens didn't leave his feet, Torres did. If Torres didn't leave his feet, it's a clean hit.

This. I keep hearing about how Stevens couldn't survive in the new NHL. That's bull. Stevens was a supremely gifted skater who consistently laid people out without breaking any rules. With the current rules, Stevens would have adjusted, and continued to hit. Scrubs who don't know how to skate/hit break the rules. Stevens could have raised plenty of hell, just like Duncan Keith and Shea Weber (I know both have a major offense in the same month, but still).

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Even if you do get a clean KO hit in a fist fight, which happens once every leap year in hockey fights, there's no way that can even compare to the potential damage a 240lbs man moving at high speed straight towards you and then JUMPING up towards your head with a shoulder/elbow can inflict. In a hockey fight the worst thing that can probably happen is hitting your head on the ice when falling down. In the case of these unexpected open-ice hits, the impact alone can be very dangerous before you add the fact that your head could be propelled with significant speed towards the ice as well.

These type of hits towards the head should be completely removed from hockey, as should fighting.

Triumph is absolutely spot on right on every point. And while they need to be more consistent on their suspensions, things are certainly moving in the right direction.

Edited by njdevsftw

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The NHL is an emotional, passion driven game. Players are always on the edge and sometimes their emotions get the best of them. If the NHL continues to chip away at the passion driving the sport...it's going to end up shooting itself right in the wallet. Because nobody wants sterile no contact ping pong on ice.

I don't know if that's true anymore. The people who like the physical stuff the most are the die hards, who are going to show up anyway. The league has grown every year since the devastating lockout, with the new rules in place. Casual fans like the sport the way it is now.

Also, since the new concussion data has come out, football has become less popular while softer sports like baseball have become more popular, especially at the high school level. While we may not be seeing the effects now, 10 years from now, the NFL may be in trouble. Seeming safer is smart for the NHL.

The thing that worries me is the consistency of the calls. Three big things that stand out to me: I can see Torres getting 25 compared to Hagelin getting 3 based off reasons already mentioned. But Weber smashing Zetterberg's head against the boards getting nothing? Outrageous. Potentially more dangerous than these two hits. We all heard the talk about Hags potentially getting more games than he should have since Alfie got hurt, which is another flaw.

And this is the biggest issue.

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Torres got a huge suspension in my opinion because of three factors that I don't think should be included in determining suspension length

1. The player he hit got seriously injured

2. The player he hit was Marian Hossa, one of the best players in hockey

3. He hit this player while the NHL was weathering a sh!t storm of bad publicity from multiple supension/incidents (Asham, Bitz, Neal, Weber, etc)

Even for a repeat offender like Torres, I don't see how that hit gets 10+ games if not for those three things. I agree with the premise that the league needs to do what it can to limit head shots due to the advances we've made in studying concussions/CTE, but to do this punishment now, for these reasons is not fair to Torres.

They made an example out of Torres. The NHLPA has a legitimate grievance to make on his part I think, especially if Phoenix is eliminated soon.

Edit: Just today, an NFL player committed suicide due to CTE/Brain Trauma from concussions

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/ray-easterling-lead-plaintiff-nfl-concussion-lawsuits-commits-025009388.html

It's a serious issue, not part of the "pussification" of the sport

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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Torres got a huge suspension in my opinion because of three factors that I don't think should be included in determining suspension length

1. The player he hit got seriously injured

2. The player he hit was Marian Hossa, one of the best players in hockey

3. He hit this player while the NHL was weathering a sh!t storm of bad publicity from multiple supension/incidents (Asham, Bitz, Neal, Weber, etc)

Even for a repeat offender like Torres, I don't see how that hit gets 10+ games if not for those three things. I agree with the premise that the league needs to do what it can to limit head shots due to the advances we've made in studying concussions/CTE, but to do this punishment now, for these reasons is not fair to Torres.

They made an example out of Torres. The NHLPA has a legitimate grievance to make on his part I think, especially if Phoenix is eliminated soon.

Edit: Just today, an NFL player committed suicide due to CTE/Brain Trauma from concussions

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/ray-easterling-lead-plaintiff-nfl-concussion-lawsuits-commits-025009388.html

It's a serious issue, not part of the "pussification" of the sport

Injury, like it or not, is part of the NHL's decision to suspend people. And I do think that in the playoffs, mediocre/bad players hitting good players has to be taken into account at least a little. With how teams have to respond to concussion issues, a big hit can easily send a star player out for a series whereas in the past, that player probably would've played through the problem.

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1. The player he hit got seriously injured

2. The player he hit was Marian Hossa, one of the best players in hockey

I have no problem with these issues bing taken into consideration. In a long series, it's too easy to send a goon out in one of the early games to try to injure someone. If that good stands to lose a ton of money and the right to play, at least he thinks twice. I know something black and white doesn't happen that often, but even in a play like this one, Phoenix still comes out ahead for this series. They will have a much easier time replacing Torres than Chicago will replacing Hossa.

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