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Matteau#32

Matteau defends his goalie

225 posts in this topic

Which I said at the time was dumb. My belief has always been let the goalies go play the puck wherever, but let them be hit if they were out of their crease or not playing a shot. I don't think you would actually see goalies get lit up the way the powers that be believe it would happen. There would a be respect factor, for the same reason guys won't deliberately shoot at an opponent's head when they go down to block a shot. Would goalies get hit? Of course, but it wouldn't be open season. Players would be leery of their own goaltender getting run as retribution.

No, this is just wrong. Have you ever played high level hockey? Talk to a few players, especially the gritty, feisty guys and they will tell you they will take any opportunity to run the goalie if they know they can get away with it. Just like guys will take any opportunity to legally "punish" QBs in the NFL.

Edited by David Puddy

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@NJCroMag: laugh.gif

If we are playing the "here and now" game I would take Smith or Quick over Lundqvist any day of the week.

I have to call BS on this.

You know what Matteau bitch? You are a secret admirer. Like other Rags fans, you envy Devils' accomplishments over your pathetic team for 30 years and you act like you hate devils but actually, deep down you like them. Maybe, you even hate your loser gay team because you know Rangers are one of the most hated, if not the most, NHL franchises unlike Devils. Go post here and masturbate while replying devils fans in this forum with your bullsh!t. I am not gonna even respond to you again. I thought that this forum is a classy and quality Devils forum where I would like to read opinions of other Devils fans like me but I think I am wrong. Wherever I go, these stupid rags fans appear even here. Just show your quality and ban this guy. He is ENEMY...

You're one of those teeny posters from Fire and Ice aren't you? I like how you imply this forum isn't classy with a completely unclassy post. We support debate here and stay away from name-calling. That's why we're the best hockey forum on the net. You don't like it? I'd rather have Matteau than you!

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That wasn't my point on the NFL. What I was saying is they put together videos of actual plays and explain whether it should or should not have been called for roughing the passer or defenseless reciever, or whatever the case may be. I know, because I have seen many of these videos. I ref semi-pro football, we use NFL rules and members of my group are friends with current nfl officials who will bring the videos to our meetings/training sessions. Point is, IF the NHL ever decided to make the goalie fair game when they leave the crease, they would have to do the same to show when it is ok to hit him and when it is not. Like I said earlier, doubt it becomes open-season on the goalies. Coaches would fear retribution if teams started to really light up the opposing goalie.

NFL refs are currently shown videos just like this on rules like head checks and head contact. They've worked reallly well, huh?

Edited by David Puddy

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I have to disagree with that, but that is a horse of a different color. Neither are ahead of Hasek, Tretiak, or Dryden (although what I saw of Dryden or Tretiak in their prime is limited to stuff on NHL Network and I guess in part from "folk lore".

Patrick Roy is the best goalie of all time. I love Marty as much as the next Devils fan, but he has never done anything like Roy in 1993. No goaltender in the history of the NHL has. Those ten overtime wins in a row, playing with the confidence he had and gave to his team, it was the most dominating performance a goaltender has ever delivered. He won the Conn Smythe every time he won the Cup, and he beat Marty head to head, giving up one goal in the final two games of the Devils choke job while Marty gave up 7.

Hasek didn't win enough, Dryden didn't play long enough, and Tretiak never played in the N, so there's not much to go on. He also really got lit up in the most important games in the 72 series. 6 goals a game.

When it comes to those Russians that never made it over here, I do have to say that Kharlamov was the best player I ever saw who didn't have Gretzky, Lemieux, or Messier on his back.

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Well now -- you can say Roy delivered more than Marty -- but taken as a whole - I honestly would take Brodeur over Roy. I trust the rest of the team to cover for any gaffs Marty may come up with.

I think Marty is the better person in the locker room as well.

If we want to talk about insane skills Hasek.

Intensity and determination - I'd give the to Roy.

Puck handling - Brodeur

Best all-around player game in game out year to year - decade to decade... it's just Marty. Marty. Marty. Marty.

It just can't be about best individual performance because it's a team sport. That's just my opinion.

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I have one thing to say. Lundqvist will not age as well as Brodeur on the ice. As we seen with Potvin, reflex goaltenders that play deep don't play well deep into their 30's. Once they lose their reflexes they are doomed sitting on their goal line.

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I put Roy and Hasek ahead of Marty when we talk about just plain stopping the puck.

But Marty is one of the smartest and most well rounded goaltenders of all time. While Patrick had a standing/butterfly style, and Hasek had a wild stop-the-puck-at-all-costs style, Brodeur uses all kinds of different styles and techniques. Just watch how he handles breakaways. Sometimes it's a butterfly, sometimes paddle down, sometimes a poke check. There are times that he baits the shooter with the twitchy glove thing. My favorite is when he faces a right handed shooter on a break, he stacks the pads. The shooter can shoot into that. Or they can lift it, so Marty has his glove above the pads. If they pull left to the back hand, he pulls the glove behind his head and rolls through. In slow motion it's easy to beat. But at game speed, it's maddening to a shooter unless they can cut quick and go to the right and around the pads (like Briere in the shootout early this year). Very smart stuff. He loves catching guys with their head down.

The other thing about Marty is the longevity. Just one real bad half season in 18 years in the NHL. It's really incredible. I might choose Roy (in his prime) for a game 7, but I'd choose Marty (in his prime) to build a franchise.

Lunqvist on the other hand, while talented, plays a very boring style. Basically, it's 'be big'. It's effective, but not my thing. I prefer the days of athletic, reactionary goaltending.

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I have one thing to say. Lundqvist will not age as well as Brodeur on the ice. As we seen with Potvin, reflex goaltenders that play deep don't play well deep into their 30's. Once they lose their reflexes they are doomed sitting on their goal line.

Pretty much sums up his future career perfectly, reflex goaltenders while great initially quickly fade. Should be fun to watch the queen age over the next 4-6 years.

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I have to call BS on this.

Well if we are being nonsensical then I call BS on the moon.

Quick has been far and away the best goalie in the playoffs (and regular season), and I made that post before even looking at post season stats which not surprisingly confirms it. I'd say Smith and the Queen are similar in terms of ability to stop the puck, but Mike has substantially better puck moving ability the Henrik which is why I would give him the nod.

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In the league 7 years and on his 5th or 6th Vezina nom. But you are right, only 1 good season. Sather calls Lamoriello and offers Lundqvist for Marty straight up, are you saying Louie turns him down?

I don't mind you making a spirited argument for your guy but you lose credibility with me when you make up "facts". He has been in the league and has been a Vezina finalist (top 3 in voting) 3.5 times, always as an also-ran (before this year obviously). That's not 5 or 6 out of 7.

2006: Finished third (Couldn't find the vote totals quickly but recall that Kiprusoff was the winner in a landslide over Brodeur and Lundqvist)

2007: Finished tied for third (Brodeur 122, Luongo 116, Kiprusoff 7, Lundqvist 7)

2008: Finished third (Brodeur 113, Nabokov 106, Lundqvist 8)

2012: ? (will likely win and will finish no worse than 2nd)

Worth noting: The only goalie with more top 3 finishes in that time is Marty.

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Well if we are being nonsensical then I call BS on the moon.

Quick has been far and away the best goalie in the playoffs (and regular season), and I made that post before even looking at post season stats which not surprisingly confirms it. I'd say Smith and the Queen are similar in terms of ability to stop the puck, but Mike has substantially better puck moving ability the Henrik which is why I would give him the nod.

I guess on age you could take Quick over Lundqvist that's it. Mike Smith handles the puck better than Henrik but still nothing game-changing imo. In the "Here and Now" with Henrik you know you will be getting an all-star goaltender and in his prime nonetheless, who WILL play at an elite level every game. Quick is a good goaltender but isn't relied on to do what Lundy does for the Rangers. Honestly, its not even close. With Mike Smith he's been good for one season - and he has been great - but to take him over Henrik Lundqvist, with all due respect, is just you being a good Devils fan. If you were running a team for one season - you would take Henrik. If you were running it for many seasons - you probably would still take Henrik.

Edited by ben00rs

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I guess on age you could take Quick over Lundqvist that's it. Mike Smith handles the puck better than Henrik but still nothing game-changing imo. With Henrik you know you will be getting an all-star goaltender and in his prime nonetheless. Quick is a good goaltender but isn't relied on to do what Lundy does for the Rangers. Honestly, its not even close. With Mike Smith he's been good for one season - and he has been great - but to take him over Henrik Lundqvist, with all due respect, is just you being a good Devils fan. If you were running a team for one season - you would take Henrik. If you were running it for many seasons - you probably would still take Henrik.

It's not him 'being a good Devils fan'. It's him having the opinion that Quick is a better goalie.

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It's not him 'being a good Devils fan'. It's him having the opinion that Quick is a better goalie.

Yea - thanks a lot DevilDan. I understand that's his opinion, it's mine that its his Devils fandom doing it. Don't turn this into me doing something wrong plz. Let's post about hockey.

Edited by ben00rs

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I put Roy and Hasek ahead of Marty when we talk about just plain stopping the puck.

But Marty is one of the smartest and most well rounded goaltenders of all time. While Patrick had a standing/butterfly style, and Hasek had a wild stop-the-puck-at-all-costs style, Brodeur uses all kinds of different styles and techniques. Just watch how he handles breakaways. Sometimes it's a butterfly, sometimes paddle down, sometimes a poke check. There are times that he baits the shooter with the twitchy glove thing. My favorite is when he faces a right handed shooter on a break, he stacks the pads. The shooter can shoot into that. Or they can lift it, so Marty has his glove above the pads. If they pull left to the back hand, he pulls the glove behind his head and rolls through. In slow motion it's easy to beat. But at game speed, it's maddening to a shooter unless they can cut quick and go to the right and around the pads (like Briere in the shootout early this year). Very smart stuff. He loves catching guys with their head down.

The other thing about Marty is the longevity. Just one real bad half season in 18 years in the NHL. It's really incredible. I might choose Roy (in his prime) for a game 7, but I'd choose Marty (in his prime) to build a franchise.

Lunqvist on the other hand, while talented, plays a very boring style. Basically, it's 'be big'. It's effective, but not my thing. I prefer the days of athletic, reactionary goaltending.

Funny how there are certain guys you see eye-to-eye with on just about everything Devils-related. You are me are like that DD56.

Here's how I've always seen it, and I can only really talk about the guys I saw play.

Best pure puck-stopper: Hasek...guy was ridiculous in his prime...hard to believe he didn't become an NHL regular until he was 29.

Best clutch performer: Roy...carried that '93 Canadiens team on his back. 151 playoff wins?! That's just insane.

Best all-around: Marty, especially when you factor in his puck-handling. Neither Roy nor Hasek saw the game change its rules to offset what they did. And yeah, his longevity is absurd. It's only the last couple of seasons we've seen a dropoff in his play, and even then, he's still had very good extended stretches...he may not be playing as well as the three other goalies left in the playoffs, but his save% and GAA these playoffs are actually slightly better than his playoff career numbers, for whatever that's worth.

As for Lundqvist...I think he's obviously among the best playing right now, but it remains to be seen if he'll be as memorable as Hasek, Roy, and Brodeur. Winning a Cup or two would help his cause in that regard greatly, especially with this team. The Rangers could easily lose 10 or 11 games at the rate they're going if they win the Cup.

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Funny how there are certain guys you see eye-to-eye with on just about everything Devils-related. You are me are like that DD56.

Here's how I've always seen it, and I can only really talk about the guys I saw play.

Best pure puck-stopper: Hasek...guy was ridiculous in his prime...hard to believe he didn't become an NHL regular until he was 29.

The stats Hasek has rung up playing for the Sabres most of his career is insane. There was one reason the Sabres even got to the playoffs repeatedly and it was him.

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Facts:

Cups won (most important): Marty-3 Princess-0

Vezinas: Marty-4 Princess-0

Reg. Season Wins: Marty-656 (34.52... wins avg/season; 55% win rate/gp) Princess-252 (36 wins avg/season; 53% win rate/gp)

Shutouts: Marty-119 Princess-43

Although Princess has a better win avg per season, I included Marty's rookie year (4gp, excluding that year would bring him up to 36.44... avg).

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Yea - thanks a lot DevilDan. I understand that's his opinion, it's mine that its his Devils fandom doing it. Don't turn this into me doing something wrong plz. Let's post about hockey.

Actually the difference here is that no one is "calling bs" on your opinion like you felt compelled to do on mine (not that I care, I just thought it was rude, was there really no other way for you to make your point?). Quick is a better goalie, if I needed one for one game, one series, one season I would chose him. If I needed one for 3-5 seasons I would have to think a little harder, but that's hardly "here and now" now is it?

Edited by squishyx

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I really wonder which team is the most hated. Wasn't there a poll a few years ago on this? I could swear there was and the Flyers were in the top 3.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Pittsburgh because of the Crosby hype machine and their whining. Even if you're a Ducks fan you'd probably get annoyed at the Pens' antics lol.

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I think the Leafs and Habs would both rank very high on a "most hated" list. Mainly because each of their teams own fanbases voting lol

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Hasek never really had a lot of talent around him. Never had a Stevens, Niedermayer, White (when he was younger), even a Daneyko. He had scrappy forwards and Satan.

HAHA! Yeah remember all those crappy Red Wings teams Hasek played for? What a maroon!

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The only guy the league altered the game completely for was Marty. The punished the guy for being good. That's fvcked up.

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Actually the difference here is that no one is "calling bs" on your opinion like you felt compelled to do on mine (not that I care, I just thought it was rude, was there really no other way for you to make your point?). Quick is a better goalie, if I needed one for one game, one series, one season I would chose him. If I needed one for 3-5 seasons I would have to think a little harder, but that's hardly "here and now" now is it?

That's what I thought it was. Honestly. And it referred to a hockey debate. If I hurt your feelings I do apologize - it was not intended.

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The only guy the league altered the game completely for was Marty. The punished the guy for being good. That's fvcked up.

And he really gave it to them when he dismantled the (NBC love child) Flyers with his puck handling anyway.. I'm betting NBC is already pushing for a rule where Marty can't play the puck outside of the crease :P

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