Triumph Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 The problem with your overall mentality re: this situation is that you're basically boiling everything down to his performance in one game, or at least you're coming off that way. So if Zach has a monster Game 4 and, say, scores a couple of goals, suddenly that makes him worth the big coin? Even if the Devils lose that game 5-2? And I think he HAS shown up in Games 1-3...it doesn't look to me like the Devils as a whole aren't showing up. I have my own reasons for why the Devils probably shouldn't re-sign Zach, that won't hinge on his Game 4 performance: 1) Someone will likely overpay for him. I know the Devils have some serious money coming off the cap, starting with Brodeur, but the idea of two huge, long-term deals does make me a little nervous...I've never been a big fan of getting "top-heavy", even though Kovy's yearly cap hit is actually not too crazy. 2) Zach does a lot of great things and can drive play, but his game is so based on playing high-energy...I do worry about his ability to sustain that level of energy as he gets older. I also think we've already seen his best, that he's already peaked...not saying he's some kind of scrub now, I still think he's a very good player, but he's likely going to get signed to superstar dollars. GMs make the mistake of signing good to very good players to this kind of money all of the time, thinking that doing so will somehow lead to superstar performance. When Zach does sign that kind of contract, it won't be nearly as glaring of a mistake as the Rangers signing Gomez, but it will still be a mistake...one Lou should not make. The only way I see it making sense for Zach to stay is if the contract isn't for a ridiculous term (6 years or less) and the cap hit isn't crazy (no more than $6.5 million per year)...I know this will never happen. If some other team wants to cough up 7 or more seasons or $50 million plus, I don't think the Devils should match it. I think Lou can find a way to re-invest the money they would've given to Zach where they'll remain competitive, and the team's spirit won't be broken. This is just not adjusting to a 70M cap world. I recognize that that number will come down a bit, but there's just no question that Zach is worth it right now at a 7.5M cap hit. Whether that's true going forward is anyone's guess, but the risk is losing the Devils' best forward and their second best guy is 36. It's a difficult crossroads, but I don't think this team is better off losing Parise - it's never going to find a player like that on the open market and even if Henrique is somewhat of a facsimile it throws the Devils right back into the 2nd tier of contenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 This is just not adjusting to a 70M cap world. I recognize that that number will come down a bit, but there's just no question that Zach is worth it right now at a 7.5M cap hit. Whether that's true going forward is anyone's guess, but the risk is losing the Devils' best forward and their second best guy is 36. It's a difficult crossroads, but I don't think this team is better off losing Parise - it's never going to find a player like that on the open market and even if Henrique is somewhat of a facsimile it throws the Devils right back into the 2nd tier of contenders. In bold: exactly. Zach may be worth $7.5 million over the next two to three years, but I'm not taking a chance on five years beyond that at that same cap hit. You are right, it is a difficult crossroads, and it's not a knock on Zach...I like him a lot. But at the money he's likely to get, I'd take a pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv4Life Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) I think Zach is going to re-sign at the end of the day. But he is not worth the offers he's likely to get. He's not a game-changer; he's not a guy who can take over a game and carry a team on his back. If he does walk, I wouldn't mind as long as we get someone to replace him who addresses a need(legit blueliner). Besides if he stays Coach Pete is just going to stick him on the same line as Kovy anyways. Kovy isn't captain material and he's been atrocious in this series but he has herniated disks despite our genius of a coach giving him a crapload of minutes so he can't be the one to blame for this team's issues. Edited June 5, 2012 by Marv4Life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Youre a joke. Youre just another devils fan that apparently doesnt understand the game other than whos on the score sheet. You wanna make a corny status, make it about that bum kovalchuk. They only times he's been visible this series is when hes turning over the puck everytime he touches it. Go root for the rangers buddy because youre a joke of a devils fan. Wow, the irony in this post is appalling. You should go root for the Rangers after a post like that. Playing with practically a broken back since Round 1 of the playoffs, Kovy's still our top scorer these playoffs. And you're one of the very very (and always present) few that still insist on trashing him. You should be ashamed of yourself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Guess we should also get rid of Zajac, Kovy, Henrique, Elias, Zubrus. No points for any of them during the finals. All totally overpaid for literally zero production. Other guys who suck: Ryan Kessler, Brad Richards, Jason Spezza, Pavel Datsyuk. Zach also done a really awful job as captain. I mean, any fool can be a leader on a team that goes to the SC Finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) I'll Take Zach over Kovy any day of the week, & twice on sunday & BTW Zidlicky might be the biggest flop of all... he has me going friggin crazy, hope he doesnot come back... It's because of Zidlicky and Kovy's play in earlier rounds we're even in the Stanley Cup Final. Some of the idiocy of you guys is just unbelievable... I'm really ashamed to be a Devils on days like this.. Edited June 5, 2012 by DJ Eco 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevil26 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Zach will stay. Hopefully he can use the $ from his new contract to buy himself two or three months worth of SHOOTING LESSONS. That's the only problem I have with his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Zach will stay. Hopefully he can use the $ from his new contract to buy himself two or three months worth of SHOOTING LESSONS. That's the only problem I have with his game. Same... Shoots right into the goalie, almost every time, no creativity or vision on the shot.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) Same... Shoots right into the goalie, almost every time, no creativity or vision on the shot.. This is not news at all. Zach needs to be within a few feet to get his goals, unless it is a deflection. If he was a little bigger with a better shot he is Sidney Crosby. Edited June 5, 2012 by Zubie#8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdiablos103 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 if he is not impressed with our young offense and wedgewood in the works, that's his choice. if i were him, after this much koolaid, i would pull an elias and listen to uncle lou. Patty is all class. I have have weird feeling towards Zach. I talked to him last season when he was hurt at the meet and greet and he was a nice guy, BUT I also get that feeling that his dad will persuade him to take the money and run. Unless he goes to an already contending team, he will never win anything, since I don't see him winning sh!t this year, obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSkirt Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 & BTW Zidlicky might be the biggest flop of all... he has me going friggin crazy, hope he doesnot come back... Disregarding how much was given to get him, I think without Zidlicky we wouldn't have gotten this far. He added a missing dimension to our offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Disregarding how much was given to get him, I think without Zidlicky we wouldn't have gotten this far. He added a missing dimension to our offense. Totally agree, and I think he has a wrist injury since that simmonds hit because he is playing the puck with very stiff hands ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeCups Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Patty is all class. I have have weird feeling towards Zach. I talked to him last season when he was hurt at the meet and greet and he was a nice guy, BUT I also get that feeling that his dad will persuade him to take the money and run. Unless he goes to an already contending team, he will never win anything, since I don't see him winning sh!t this year, obviously. We are gonna post this sort of stuff again?!? You got a feeling his dad will persuade him to take the money and run based on a 23 seconds encounter with him at a meet and greet?!? REALLY?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdiablos103 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 We are gonna post this sort of stuff again?!? You got a feeling his dad will persuade him to take the money and run based on a 23 seconds encounter with him at a meet and greet?!? REALLY?!?!? No. That's not what I meant. I meant that I like Zach and he was cool to talk to. (End of that) But from JP's recent comments, I get the feeling that Zach won't be back. (nothing to do with me meeting Zach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Totally agree, and I think he has a wrist injury since that simmonds hit because he is playing the puck with very stiff hands ever since. He's almost definitely still playing hurt. Hasn't been the same guy since that hit, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 This thread is one born out of frustration, I understand. That said, my one wish for Parise would be to work on his shooting. I cant remember the last time he scored a goal more than 10 feet out. Everything he shoots goes right into the goalie's chest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils Pride 26 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 This might be the dumbest thread of all time in the history of this forum. Based on ONE GAME, you make a potential $100M decision. What if he scores the sixth goal in a 5-1 loss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfsharkalligatorhalfman Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Kovy hasn't been playing well, but anyone who thinks he isn't injured should start paying closer attention. He would be absolutely lethal at 100% health. It's amazing that he was able to be so effective in the previous series due to his vision and shot alone. It's just that now that the games are so much tighter, he can't rely on that as much. That's the thing about Kovalchuk. He needs space to be effective. The Rangers with their passive system gave it to him. The Kings are not doing it. I think he's hurt but it's not possible to extrapolate and say he'd be lethal in this series at 100% health. Maybe on the PP, but even then he's not getting much time and space from the Kings. They are taking him out of the game and I am not convinced they wouldn't be taking a 100% Kovalchuk out of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeCups Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 No. That's not what I meant. I meant that I like Zach and he was cool to talk to. (End of that) But from JP's recent comments, I get the feeling that Zach won't be back. (nothing to do with me meeting Zach. Fair enough... The choice is Zach's, and one he will have to live with for the majority of his remaining playing days... Make the right choice #9.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 That's the thing about Kovalchuk. He needs space to be effective. The Rangers with their passive system gave it to him. The Kings are not doing it. I think he's hurt but it's not possible to extrapolate and say he'd be lethal in this series at 100% health. Maybe on the PP, but even then he's not getting much time and space from the Kings. They are taking him out of the game and I am not convinced they wouldn't be taking a 100% Kovalchuk out of the game. Kovalchuk is able to buy space when he is healthy. Right now he is not trying to beat anyone 1 on 1 because he just can't make the skating/stickhandling moves necessary to do so. When healthy, he's a terror in the neutral zone with the puck - that burst isn't there, he's not able to back defenders off, and as a result he's probably dumped the puck in more during these playoffs than in the rest of his career. He still only has 2 ES goals in the playoffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 That's the thing about Kovalchuk. He needs space to be effective. The Rangers with their passive system gave it to him. The Kings are not doing it. I think he's hurt but it's not possible to extrapolate and say he'd be lethal in this series at 100% health. Maybe on the PP, but even then he's not getting much time and space from the Kings. They are taking him out of the game and I am not convinced they wouldn't be taking a 100% Kovalchuk out of the game. kovalchuk is so obviously hurt it's not funny. What you are seeing right now is a healthy kovalchuk when he's 37 years old (and still under contract). in the last 2 months, have you seen kovy use his speed at all? have you seen a quick stop and go? there is zero left of his legs right now. i'm not saying a healthy kovalchuk changes any outcome but it would've been nice to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 The problem with your overall mentality re: this situation is that you're basically boiling everything down to his performance in one game, or at least you're coming off that way. So if Zach has a monster Game 4 and, say, scores a couple of goals, suddenly that makes him worth the big coin? Even if the Devils lose that game 5-2? And I think he HAS shown up in Games 1-3...it doesn't look to me like the Devils as a whole aren't showing up. I agree with your entire post. As to the game 4 changing everything - I meant it to be obvious that it would be a start and would need a win to follow. Saying, "If Zach Parise doesn't score next game..." Is just me basically saying he has to step up and do something big; big enough to remind me of why his captaincy makes him worth the money. Guess we should also get rid of Zajac, Kovy, Henrique, Elias, Zubrus. No points for any of them during the finals. All totally overpaid for literally zero production. Other guys who suck: Ryan Kessler, Brad Richards, Jason Spezza, Pavel Datsyuk. Zach also done a really awful job as captain. I mean, any fool can be a leader on a team that goes to the SC Finals. I'll say again for the zillionth time: we shouldn't get rid of anyone. Zach is the big FA, so he's the guy you decide if you're pitching a big offer to or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaDevsFan Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 keep in mind that Zach is like second highest in playoff points on the team this season. In addition, he's the second Captain in team history to lead the Devils to the SCF. That being said if he walks, he walks. Give the "C" to Kovy. This is leadership: C to Kovy??? I hope you are kidding. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devs1965 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Yeah I agree, I should not of used the word game changer. I guess I am saying is that his skill set is not worth the contract he will get. Of course the man plays all out every night but I do not think it is worth it. Just my 2 cents. I am definitely not saying I want him gone but the contract has to be reasonable. I said something similar after the game but more frustration, I do not want to see the Devils give more contracts ala Kovy that will hurt us for years to come. I like both players and appreciate the way they have both played in getting us here. Hockey is a game of inches and game 1 and 2 could have gone either way. I hope he stays but for a realistic price! LGD!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerzey Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Seems to me like a lot of the Devils lost their game at the wrong time. Parise (missed shots), Kovy (turnovers/not taking shots when he should), Elias (seems almost invisible this post season), Zubs (with all the penalties), Clarkson (missing the net/never passing)... Henrique, Zajac, and Marty are showing more heart than anyone else on the team right now. That being said I can't help but somewhat agree with Ben00rs. Zach can make big money this off season. Anything over 6.5 per is an over payment and I think we should pass. If keeping Parise helps us acquire Suter this off season then I'd go as high as 7 per for Zach. C to Kovy??? I hope you are kidding. . . Why not? Most of the team seems to look up to him a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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