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eaglejelly

EURO 2012

EURO 2012   19 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win the EURO 2012?

    • England
    • Spain
    • Germany
    • Italy
    • France
    • Portugal
      0
    • Russia
      0
    • Ukraine
      0
    • Netherlands
    • Greece
      0
    • Denmark
    • Czech Republic
      0
    • Poland
    • Croatia
      0
    • Sweden
    • Republic of Ireland
      0

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137 posts in this topic

Spain have given up 1 goal this entire tournament! They're still the team to beat IMO. Germany has lapses like they did against Greece and they will lose to Spain.

I agree Spain is still the team to beat. After all, they are the world and european champions. However, if you look at the so called defensive lapses again you will see that the first Greek goal should never have counted and goal two was, well, a penalty that I guess according to the rules is a penalty. But it wasn't a scoring chance and s.th. like that could happen anytime in any game. I wouldn't call that a laps. Now, in case you wonder why the first goal shouldn't have counted, carefully look at Boateng and Samaras running into the penalty area. Boateng is AHEAD of Samaras by a foot or so until Samaras clearly holds Boatengs jersey. Suddenly, Samaras is ahead, gets to the cross and puts it in. The referee doesn't see it because he has his eyes on the ball.

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The way Germany started yesterday, I was stunned it wasn't 3-0 by half. The Greeks had some moments and capitalized on some German laziness.

Germany has looked good, but I don't think they can beat Spain if that final is destined.

I agree with you. Spain looked scary good against France. I don’t think Germany is at their level yet

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what are your opinions on the criticism Spain is getting for waiting patiently and then striking when the team is not expecting it. i read a few places where they call it boring. i am getting the same vibe as the criticisms for the Devil's Trap back in the day

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I agree with you. Spain looked scary good against France. I don’t think Germany is at their level yet

Really ? They didn't look good at all against us... they could have done a much better job versus such a passive french team.

oh yes, they have won everything... but i wasn't impress at all so far. their better game was versus italia and i'm not too sure yet who was the better team there. they should have been eliminated against croatia, but referee screwed big time...

but yes, they always win so far. but when the other team really try to move them, they are in trouble.

Even french, without such a coward coach, could have do much better... so go figure with germany. and spain D got no answer to christiano ronaldo... and portugal will be a better treat against their arch enemy

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Spain have been awful. Germany have played the bt out of any team i have seen.

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No surprises there then. The team was never winning this. This England midfield is truly awful.

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England-Italy... What a game ! What a game by the italian players... where are the traditionnal Squadra ? Amazing turn of event... They are so much fun that they used to be !

Well deserved qualification...

They seems to don't stand a chance versus Germany... But one thing that never die with them is.. that they ALWAYS find a way !

Really good semi-finals

Very fun Euro

Don't end this with a spain victory ... please !

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Heading to PKs in the England-Italy game.

Great to see Italy win this one. They were the better team, would have been a shame to see England win this.

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Spain have been awful. Germany have played the bt out of any team i have seen.

I think Spain is anything but awful. I admire their ability to control a game. It’s not exciting to watch, but they can really suffocate an opponent with their possession game. What they did to looked much the same they did to Germany the last two tournaments.

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Heading to PKs in the England-Italy game.

What was England thinking playing for penalties? They should know by now that it is not their strength.

Those were 4 really one sided quarterfinals, even if the results didn't show it.

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It would've been the most unjust game ever had England won it in PK.

Great game by Italy, I'm really happy for them - they're my favourite foreign team. They've been impressive, but they just can't buy goals. Azzurri were really unlucky tonight, though and I think they do stand a chance against Germany. Italy has solid defense and if they can create offense and have a little bit more luck, the Germans won't have an easy task. Germany is still the favourite here, of course, but anyone can be beaten.

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England-Italy... What a game ! What a game by the italian players... where are the traditionnal Squadra ? Amazing turn of event... They are so much fun that they used to be !

Well deserved qualification...

They seems to don't stand a chance versus Germany... But one thing that never die with them is.. that they ALWAYS find a way !

Really good semi-finals

Very fun Euro

Don't end this with a spain victory ... please !

Really? Apart from Andre Pirlo comanding the game and the odd flourish from Balotelli i didn't think there was much excitment in this gamre at all until the penalties.

I think Spain is anything but awful. I admire their ability to control a game. It’s not exciting to watch, but they can really suffocate an opponent with their possession game. What they did to looked much the same they did to Germany the last two tournaments.

Awful is a bit strong i guess, but i hardly think they are playing to their strenghts. The way they set up actually makes them vulnerable to the counter attack, something Portugal have done well the whole tournament. Also tika taka possesion football is horrible to watch.

If you look back to the Croatia game for all of Spains possesion if Mandzukic and Rakitic takes the two chances they were given Spain are on their way home (the Rakitic header was a terrible terrible miss).

I guess Del Bosque is playing to their strength which is the midfield, but Spain has the potential to be so much better. I keep saying it but they are trying to be Barcelona. And you only have to look at this years Champions Leauge to see what happens when inevitably the other team takes the few chances they are given. And i think this is something Portugal can do.

What was England thinking playing for penalties? They should know by now that it is not their strength.

Those were 4 really one sided quarterfinals, even if the results didn't show it.

I dont think we were playing for penatlies , we just didnt have anything left, we were out of options. Rooney coming back into the squad was the worst thing that happened to this team.

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Spain looks good, but the lack of striker is going to come back and haunt them. If I was Del Bosque, I would have tried out more guys in group play, but now the're stuck with a snakebitten Torres or a bunch of midfielders. If they yield a counter to Portugal, I don't see them stopping Cron, though I picked them to before the tournament. If they do get past the Portugese, I don't see them beating the Germans. The German midfield is good enough to take the Spanish out of their comfort zone, and they have the strikers to make them pay. IMO, the way to beat Germany is with a good forward attacking the weak spots (Boateng) in their defense, a luxury Spain doesn't really have. Plus Khedira and Ozil know how to beat the Spanish from playing against Barca with Real.

I dont think we were playing for penatlies , we just didnt have anything left, we were out of options. Rooney coming back into the squad was the worst thing that happened to this team.

This. They were playing loose and free flowing, using their speed. Rooney doesn't fit in as well with that. I don't know that they would have gone any farther without Rooney -- he is good at burying chances -- but his return took away some of the identity they had forged in his absence.

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Spain looks good, but the lack of striker is going to come back and haunt them. If I was Del Bosque, I would have tried out more guys in group play, but now the're stuck with a snakebitten Torres or a bunch of midfielders. If they yield a counter to Portugal, I don't see them stopping Cron, though I picked them to before the tournament. If they do get past the Portugese, I don't see them beating the Germans. The German midfield is good enough to take the Spanish out of their comfort zone, and they have the strikers to make them pay. IMO, the way to beat Germany is with a good forward attacking the weak spots (Boateng) in their defense, a luxury Spain doesn't really have. Plus Khedira and Ozil know how to beat the Spanish from playing against Barca with Real.

I agree, but I don’t think it’s too late to change, and IMO it’s not even for the lack of a striker, Torres is still nowhere near as bad as people are making him out to be. Earlier in the season he was completely ineffective, but towards the end he was approaching full capacity. Also the have Pedro , Llorente and Negredo (not taking Soldado was a crime!!), who are all capable of scoring, He is just not playing the system Spain used to operate in the last World Cup and European Championship.

Portugal needs Ronaldo to have one of the best games of his life, and hope that they outscore Spain. They will know what they are up against, it helps having a large number of your national team ply their trade in Spain. Coentrao and Pepe at the back will certainly help.

I agree with what you are saying about Germany as well, I hope Loew is positive again and selects the team that started against Greece. Reus and Schurrle were impressive. They should be more than a match for Italy.

This. They were playing loose and free flowing, using their speed. Rooney doesn't fit in as well with that. I don't know that they would have gone any farther without Rooney -- he is good at burying chances -- but his return took away some of the identity they had forged in his absence.

It’s not really he took away the identity, it’s that he was played in a position he never plays. England play Rooney as a striker, which he clearly isn’t. You either change the system to suit the player or you don’t select the player. We just substituted Carroll for Rooney and expected the same results, they are two completely different players, I have no idea why they thought that would work. I mean there is chemistry between him and Wellbeck, but not enough to build an attack around.

The ridged 4-4-2 they played against Italy was effective in parts in the first half when Rooney gave up being a forward and dropped deep, but when they went to play long ball football to Carroll it fell to pieces, Swapping Welbeck for Carroll was a nightmare, In that situation you have to take off Rooney or switch your formation. Carroll was knocking the ball down into the space between the forwards and the Midfield, as Rooney was playing alongside him, there was no one there to pick the ball off him.

In earlier games, like you said, England were utilising the pace, Welbeck was making the run past Carroll so he flicked it on, Rooney wont chase that (even though he has the pace too) he likes to drop deep as an attacking midfielder. So then Carroll becomes ineffective unless there is a set piece. So at that stage we had a completely ineffective attack on top of a defensive midfield.

At that stage England should have switched to a 4-2-1-2-1. You sit Parker and Gerard in front of the back 4, Rooney in the hole, Walcott and young on the wing and Carroll up top. And when the ball breaks down as you defend that team would be a nightmare on the counter attack. I think that formation gets you at least a goal and I think we would have gone through.

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I agree, but I don’t think it’s too late to change, and IMO it’s not even for the lack of a striker, Torres is still nowhere near as bad as people are making him out to be. Earlier in the season he was completely ineffective, but towards the end he was approaching full capacity. Also the have Pedro , Llorente and Negredo (not taking Soldado was a crime!!), who are all capable of scoring, He is just not playing the system Spain used to operate in the last World Cup and European Championship.

I agree that they could change, but Del Bosque chose not to experiment (well, he experimented with a 6 man midfield and no striker). I would have played Llorente to see if he's up to the challenge in group play. Now they either use a snakebitten Torres (he's done nothing to impress me in Euro, decent second game notwithstanding), a 6 man midfield, or hope one of the strikers they've used sparingly develops enough chemistry with the midfielders to bury one against a Portugese defense that's playing surprisingly well, or a couple against Germany, who will almost definitely score, even against Iker.

This all speaks to Spain's biggest issue: Del Bosque. He is not that good a tactical coach. I know how succesful he's been, but I'd argue that has as much to do with his players playing for the best club coaches and just bringing that with them. He keeps them calm, which is good, since they had that history of choking to shed, but he doesn't adjust well at all, and he's demonstrating a startling inablity to deal with the Villa injury, which I think ensures that they lose the cup.

None of this is to take credit away from Germany. I thought when the tournament started they were the favorites, Villa or no Villa, but it's striking how little the Schweinsteiger injury concerns me when I think about Germany, and how much the Villa injury concerns me when I think about Spain. Both teams are incredibly deep and talented, but I believe that Loew will come up with a solution if he indeed loses Schweinsteiger (maybe dropping Podolski back to midfield), but have no faith in Del Bosque's ability to deal with losing Villa, even though Del Bosque has had the entire tournament to do it, and Loew has a couple of days.

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I agree that they could change, but Del Bosque chose not to experiment (well, he experimented with a 6 man midfield and no striker). I would have played Llorente to see if he's up to the challenge in group play. Now they either use a snakebitten Torres (he's done nothing to impress me in Euro, decent second game notwithstanding), a 6 man midfield, or hope one of the strikers they've used sparingly develops enough chemistry with the midfielders to bury one against a Portugese defense that's playing surprisingly well, or a couple against Germany, who will almost definitely score, even against Iker.

I don’t think you need to test out Llorente to see if he is up to the challenge, the guy has performed all season long. He looked like Spain’s natural starting striker in qualifying, he has had plenty of experience with the players behind him.

Torres is in the top 5 scorers in the tournament whilst averaging nearly 60 minutes less game time per goal.

Portugal’s defence is the middle of the pack, and joint worst out of the remaining teams (funnily enough with Germany, England have a better defensive record than both which is crazy, although through 90 minutes we remained unbeaten). Their strength is going forward, they can’t rely on not shipping a goal.

This all speaks to Spain's biggest issue: Del Bosque. He is not that good a tactical coach. I know how succesful he's been, but I'd argue that has as much to do with his players playing for the best club coaches and just bringing that with them. He keeps them calm, which is good, since they had that history of choking to shed, but he doesn't adjust well at all, and he's demonstrating a startling inablity to deal with the Villa injury, which I think ensures that they lose the cup.

Totally agree. IMO Llorente would give the whole Spain team a different dimension if the game was going like it was against Croatia or Italy. But he is persisting with the possession game even when its not working (Croatia is the perfect example here), which is a shame because i believe it will make them so much more effective. I think the results and the statistics are masking the fact that against tougher competition they have only managed 4 goals in 3 games. Agreed on Villa, which makes the non-selection of Soldado even more puzzling, as he is the closest player in terms of Villa style.

None of this is to take credit away from Germany. I thought when the tournament started they were the favorites, Villa or no Villa, but it's striking how little the Schweinsteiger injury concerns me when I think about Germany, and how much the Villa injury concerns me when I think about Spain. Both teams are incredibly deep and talented, but I believe that Loew will come up with a solution if he indeed loses Schweinsteiger (maybe dropping Podolski back to midfield), but have no faith in Del Bosque's ability to deal with losing Villa, even though Del Bosque has had the entire tournament to do it, and Loew has a couple of days.

I doubt they drop Podolski back, I would think either Bender comes in or Toni Kroos.

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I agree with what you are saying about Germany as well, I hope Loew is positive again and selects the team that started against Greece. Reus and Schurrle were impressive. They should be more than a match for Italy.

Schürrle had some defensive lapses. One lead to the Greek equalizer. My guess is Löw will be playing Reus and Müller on the wings and Klose up front. It looks like Schweinsteiger is fit enough and will be playing. Italy has been Germany’s kryptonite. They have never won against them in a tournament. I hope they can finally break that ban.

Edited by eaglejelly

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I doubt they drop Podolski back, I would think either Bender comes in or Toni Kroos.

Which I would also be fine with. Basically, I think Loew will make the best decision for the team, and I don't feel that way about Del Bosque.

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Portugal’s defence is the middle of the pack, and joint worst out of the remaining teams (funnily enough with Germany, England have a better defensive record than both which is crazy, although through 90 minutes we remained unbeaten). Their strength is going forward, they can’t rely on not shipping a goal.

Some of that is a result of the group of death, though. The only time their d has looked weak (not talking stats, talking eye test) was against Denmark, and that was a bad game for them in a lot of ways, result notwithstanding. They looked great against a good Netherlands team, despite conceding a goal, and dominant against the Czechs. I know they won't be able to play the possession game they've played against Spain, but I still think they have a shot. The model I look at is the US in the Confed Cup. They played a lot of men back, yielded corners to clear the ball quickly (something Pepe has done very well throughout the tournament), which will be particularly effective now, since Spain doesn't really have many people to head the ball in, and counter effectively if Spain ever makes a mistake. If the US can do that with Altidore and Dempsey leading the counters, Portugal should be able to with Cron. Will they? I don't know. I picked Spain before the tournament, and obviously they're still an elite team, but I think their flaws will be exposed by Portugal, and if they survive Portugal, they're incredibly vulnerable against Germany (if Italy somehow shocks the Germans, Spain takes them. Italy gave them all they had and only managed a draw). Del Bosque needs to make them less predictable, which hasn't been his specialty. The weaker teams can't handle Spain's brilliant passing; they know it's coming, and are powerless to stop it. The Portugese and the Germans are a different story.

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Some of that is a result of the group of death, though. The only time their d has looked weak (not talking stats, talking eye test) was against Denmark, and that was a bad game for them in a lot of ways, result notwithstanding. They looked great against a good Netherlands team, despite conceding a goal, and dominant against the Czechs. I know they won't be able to play the possession game they've played against Spain, but I still think they have a shot. The model I look at is the US in the Confed Cup. They played a lot of men back, yielded corners to clear the ball quickly (something Pepe has done very well throughout the tournament), which will be particularly effective now, since Spain doesn't really have many people to head the ball in, and counter effectively if Spain ever makes a mistake. If the US can do that with Altidore and Dempsey leading the counters, Portugal should be able to with Cron. Will they? I don't know. I picked Spain before the tournament, and obviously they're still an elite team, but I think their flaws will be exposed by Portugal, and if they survive Portugal, they're incredibly vulnerable against Germany (if Italy somehow shocks the Germans, Spain takes them. Italy gave them all they had and only managed a draw). Del Bosque needs to make them less predictable, which hasn't been his specialty. The weaker teams can't handle Spain's brilliant passing; they know it's coming, and are powerless to stop it. The Portugese and the Germans are a different story.

I think we both agree on how Portugal have to play to win, and I think they stand a good chance of doing so because of the way that Spain will set up (if the stick with what they have been doing, as we both expect they will). But they are going to have to outscore Spain, using the counter attack. Which is what they have done so far. I mean every game apart from the Czech game they have always had less possession than the other team.

I don’t share your optimism about their defence, I am not so convinced, the only game they looked really solid IMO was against the Czech's , and they were the worst team they have played so far. The Czechs offered nothing going forward.

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I don’t share your optimism about their defence, I am not so convinced, the only game they looked really solid IMO was against the Czech's , and they were the worst team they have played so far. The Czechs offered nothing going forward.

I thought they looked pretty good against the Dutch, though I admit that's a tough game to evaluate, since the Dutch were eating each other alive at the same time.

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Well this is pretty exciting. Can only imagine the atmosphere in the Ironbound with all of the Iberians that live there.

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Well this is pretty exciting. Can only imagine the atmosphere in the Ironbound with all of the Iberians that live there.

Spain really looks vulnerable today, not much tiki taka. Lets see what happens in OT

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Spain has been bad today. The first half was a great game, 2nd half was a slog.

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