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devilsrule33

Let's Look Back and See How Stupid We Were

98 posts in this topic

The New Jersey Devils were 2 games away from the Stanley Cup Finals. Yet as message boards usually go, we are are more negative than positive. That means after a huge win, the game thread is probably 5 pages long, and there might be one new thread. After a couple of losses or just one to the Rangers, the game threads are 12 pages long, and new threads are popping up calling out anyone and everyone.

If it was some people saying Lou is passed his prime (too old to build a playoff contender), Brodeur is finished (too old for one more playoff push), Kovalchuk has no heart (the signing would be the downfall of the Devils franchise forever), Elias' has little left and cap hit would be a disaster, Lou should trade Clarkson for a bag of pucks (another awful contract), Greene and Fayne are not good defensemen, Salvador is finished, Gionta is a career AHL player, Carter is not an NHL forward, Parise needs to be a leader like Scott Stevens, Oates should be fired, they gave up too much for Zidlicky, the Devils are a bunch of chokers and will never be able to come up in the big moment...the bottom line is someone said something wrong, big or small.

So let's take the time to laugh at ourselves and admit how wrong we were (put your name in the search function and find some goodies). Man up and call yourself out because there are a ton of threads out there that are sometimes an example of overreacting or just plain wrong. A lot of crap gets spewed, and if it ends up being wrong, who cares. Well no calling anyone out here in this thread except yourselves.If you had something really positive to say long ago, feel free to share that too. But only after you embarrass yourself first.

Cheers to a wonderful season, a great playoff run, and the return of success.

- - -

Alright, I went through my posts and didn't find too much. I like to think I am pretty calm after losses and don't show too much emotion here. I went ape sh!t on Rolston a few years ago but that's as mad as you'll ever see me. I was very harsh on Foster, but he just sucked. It be lame as the starter of this thread not to show some dirt, and I definitely do, but nothing so mind blowing. Sorry.

On Adam Oates

I don't usually endorse firings, but I think it is time for Oates to go. The PP has just been atrocious the past two seasons under his watch. The personnel is there for it to be successful, but right now everything is wrong with it.

Thoughts: When does firing an assistant ever help a team? Adam has been a huge help for our centres. He's a great teacher, he's well respected by the players, and besides the finals...the PP did get a lot better. He's now a hot coaching prospect.

On David Clarkson:

I hate this deal. This is Lou falling in love with a guy who drinks the Kool-Aid. Forget that he loves the organization, wants to spend the rest of his career here and is a great human being. I just don't think he is that good. He has no hockey IQ. He has two moves that he constantly uses (toe drag and wrap-around). He does not use his teammates at all, which is the most frustrating part of his game. He hasn't really grown as a player either. He still takes dumb penalties.

and

2010 - 2011 - David Clarkson contract. I don't think I have ever been against a signing more before, and argued that he was worth $1.5 max. Disgusted when he got $2.5 million.

Thoughts: These are two of many posts I have made showing frustration about Clarkson and his contract. I know Clarkson still doesn't use his teammates well, but damn it, he was a huge boost this season. He became a 30-goal scorer and ditched those two moves for the most part. He played through the playoffs with a major injury and was able to keep his composure until the final game. He's been doubted his entire career and once again proved everyone wrong.

A few more things I wanted to add as I said them in the chat. I never wanted Gionta called up, and I was hoping Bernier would be scratched come playoff time. Didn't think he had anything to offer. Wrong on both accounts. Well that was fun. Your turn.

Edited by devilsrule33

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damn i wish i had the energy to go back and find some more posts but i am way too lazy today

i honestly cant remember saying anything too outrageous anyway

actually yea, definitely not, im perfect

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I'm not going to bother using the search function cause I'd probably depress myself with the number of times I was wrong, I do know two of my biggest goofs were probably with Salvador (hoping we'd get rid of him instead of White) - granted, a lot of people were saying the same thing - and wondering why little Gio was up here and saying he sucks based on the fact he'd been in the AHL most of his career and didn't do much last year when he was up here - not that many did in the first half. I wasn't really high on Carter or Bernier either, and really they didn't do much until that whole line got put together and they all clicked at once.

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Clarkson was pretty lucky this season. If he goes back to 17 goals and 13 assists what will the consensus be on him then? Our PP is still too predictable. Everything can't revolve around Kovalchuk, they need more shots from the right side of the ice and down low.

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I went and looked... for the most part, I was verry oddly optimistic ever since a group of the board and I got the "Believe" signature idea rolling... I was even apologizing for them at times. \

That being said, I looked for like 10 minutes. If one of you wants to prove to me how wrong I am, you're more than welcome to. :thumbsup:

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i am wrong all the time and will continue to be wrong...really wrong on marty thats for sure

gionta yep couldnt believe he was playing

the things i thought about clarkson last year

ext ext

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Every year I swear I'm going to save some of the ridiculous things people say and then post them for everyone to point and laugh later. And then, every year, I convince myself it's a mean idea.

This year in particular, though, I despise the fact that I'm not a mean person, because early on, there were some incredible things said that probably look hilarious now, if we went back and found them.

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ooo but i take that back.. i would definitely be embarrassed with the posts i had following the loss of game 2. me and some Kings fan were going mono a mono

:cheers:

Edited by Onddeck

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I'm not afraid of any of my posts. I am comfortable and confident that they are all clearly inane.

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This is an old one, but here's what I said when the Devils signed Mark Fayne:

I really thought for sure that they wouldn't do this. There's no room for him in the organization. Right now, New Jersey has 17 defensemen under contract, 16 of which will play in the NHL and AHL.

And here's a comment from the summer on Bryce Salvador:

Salvador's career is over, whether or not anyone told him, I'm not sure. He'll cost 2.9 million on the cap when there are clearly several players who might be able to do his job for 1/4th of that. The Devils don't have the cap room for him, healthy or not. And it's not worth trading any of the forwards to make room for him, because they're all better values at this point than he is. God, I hated that contract.

I was way more 'up' on this team than most, but yeah, if this season didn't make you look dumb at least once, I hope you invested in the stock market too.

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its also time for a lot of you to fess up.. there were a ton of you who thought you could manage this team better than Lou for some reason.. where are you?

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I never called out the coaches or Lou in particular but I know I definitely lost it a few times during the finals out of frustration and overreacted and had it out with a poster on here; devsman84 sorry for all the back and forth crap dude...lol.

Anyway.. it was a damn good season and I love this team. Till next year...

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I always defend and believe in our team! i was a kovalchuk defender all the way. im optimist for resigning parise (but still think we dont have to pay him too much money cause he is not a gamebreaker)

I was wrong on clarkson all the i have to admits i! i thought he didnt deserve his contract.

And i underestimated what left in the tank of marty. Man the guy is a beast.

And i believe this team with an healthy kovalchuk will go all the way.

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i'm pretty sure i've made comments that have turned out to be wrong on every player but i'd like to think i got a couple right.

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its also time for a lot of you to fess up.. there were a ton of you who thought you could manage this team better than Lou for some reason.. where are you?

Me! I have been down on Lou for a couple years. I even started a rather heated poll/thread calling for a Vote of No Confidence for Lou quite some time ago. I have to admit that he has pulled another rabbit out of his arse. However, that said, he did this only after taking about half a decade rehashing old players/ideas, signing ludicrous contracts, and just making bonheaded moves (an assessment that I still stand by despite our recent rebirth). But I gotta give Lou credit for learning from his mistakes and turning the franchise around, again, and making us Stanley Cup competitors..... I was wrong that he was washed up.

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Here was a thread I started back on 12/1/11...the Devils had lost 6-1 to the Avalanche, to fall to 12-10-1. It was a loss that made me very sad at the time, so I started a thread on Marty and Lou, and how their fortunes were linked, and how it was painful to see what they were becoming:

We all know what Marty and Lou have meant to this franchise, and how their destinies here have been intertwined seemingly forever. I remember when the Devils first hired Lou Lamoriello back when I was in high school. I remember being in college and reading the Star-Ledger draft recap, and seeing that the Devils had chosen one Martin Brodeur with their first-round pick. The Devils were a franchise still fighting for respectability and an identity back then, a team no one really took seriously on or off the ice. The march towards simple respectability had taken three cities and almost three decades to complete, but in the end, it was clearly Marty and Lou who had so much with the Devils finally completing that journey. Other players clearly contributed heavily to the Devils' success through the years, and none of this is to suggest that the legacies of the Stevenses and the Neidermayers and the heroes big and small are somehow lesser in importance. But both Marty and Lou have clearly been the faces of the franchise longer than anyone else.

I was just reflecting on the past and present with both of them, the good moments and the bad. Some random thoughts:

Last night was just one game, one bad game, every team has them, and it's easy to get upset and angry when we're watching such a top-to-bottom, putrid effort. I wonder what Marty's thoughts are after a game like that? Does he think about playing for someone else? Could I blame him? I always thought I wouldn't want to see him in another jersey, that it would be so awesome if he could just finish it up here. But what does he owe me? Anyone, really? He's always taken less money to stay here when he could've gotten more elsewhere. No one else has come close to playing as many games in goal for one team as Marty has. I don't want to go too crazy on his numbers this year, as it's a pretty small sample, but clearly they're not typical Marty numbers. Would they better behind another team? I guess my point is, if Marty decides for any reason that he doesn't want to be here anymore, that the window is rapidly closing and he wants to give it a try somewhere else, I wouldn't hold a thing against him. I saw him win 630 regular season games, 99 playoff games, and multiple Vezinas and Stanley Cups. I consider myself lucky to have seen him play, at such a high level, for as long as I did. When he made his debut, I was a 21-year-old college student trying to figure out what the future might hold. I'm now a married 41-year-old father of one who's a part-owner of a successful family business. It's gone by so damned fast...too damned fast. All of it. I wish he could stay young and productive and be Marty forever, but he can't. If he thinks a temporary Fountain of Youth may exist elsewhere, I would wish him only the best. No hard feelings on my end.

As for Lou, we all know what an incredible GM he's been, putting together Cup wins and doing it with less money and superstars (on offense, anyway) than several other teams. The Devils went from irrelevant curiosity in a crowded market to a perennial contender during his tenure, and missed the playoffs just three times in his many many years here. The recent seasons haven't been as kind, clearly, but no one can dispute that he was a terrific GM and executive in so many ways. I'll always appreciate what he's done here. But I am finding myself hoping more and more that this is his last season here. GMs rarely last as long in their jobs as Lou has, and there's reason for that (eras changing, the stiff prices paid to remain a contender, etc.) Sometimes I think it reaches a point where it's simply time for new blood, new voices, fresh ideas. Would it surprise me if Lou found success with another franchise, if he moved on? Not one bit. I'm simply finding myself feeling strongly that both the franchise AND Lou could benefit from a fresh start, away from each other.

Anyway, no disrespect intended towards either man...both will go down as legends, as well they should. Just thinking about life after both of them...and how it all went by so fast...and how it's sinking in that it couldn't last forever, though there were days it sure seemed that way...

I don't necessarily subscribe to the camp that Lou has suddenly figured it all out, and has somehow learned from past mistakes now that his team reached the SCF, just like I didn't buy into the idea that Glen Sather is a genius because his team had the best record in the Eastern Conference. Hell, think about it: a lot of the players that contributed to this magical season are players that were branded "past mistakes" by many of us! I do think Lou did a terrific job addressing some of the team's weaknesses in-season (namely the 3rd and 4th lines), and DeBoer seemed to know what personnel decisions to make when. But let's face it, if Zajac and Henrique don't get it done in Games 6 and 7 in the first round, the criticisms leveled against Lou in recent seasons would be continue being hurled on this and other boards, with considerable fervor. I can't make the argument that 2 OT goals make-or-break Lou as far as labelling him a genius goes. We already knew how brilliant he was.

What I will say about Lou is even though the product isn't always pretty, it's almost always competitive. His teams almost always make the playoffs, and of the three Lou teams that didn't, only two of them were never really in it, and out of those two, one did manage to make things a little interesting. There's never a prolonged rebuild, or seven straight seasons of missing the playoffs. The playoff results seem to be all-or-nothing, but five SCF Finals and 3 Cups makes for a hell of an "all". And even though some of the recent "nothings" have been hard to take, at least his teams get there and have the chance, which in the NHL crapshoot playoffs is all you can ask. It's not like anyone can accurately predict what's going to happen in them anymore.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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Here was a thread I started back on 12/1/11...the Devils had lost 6-1 to the Avalanche, to fall to 12-10-1. It was a loss that made me very sad at the time, so I started a thread on Marty and Lou, and how their fortunes were linked, and how it was painful to see what they were becoming:

I don't necessarily subscribe to the camp that Lou has suddenly figured it all out, and has somehow learned from past mistakes now that his team reached the SCF, just like I didn't buy into the idea that Glen Sather is a genius because his team had the best record in the Eastern Conference. Hell, think about it: a lot of the players that contributed to this magical season are players that were branded "past mistakes" by many of us! I do think Lou did a terrific job addressing some of the team's weaknesses in-season (namely the 3rd and 4th lines), and DeBoer seemed to know waht personnel decisions to make when. But let's face it, if Zajac and Henrique don't get it done in Games 6 and 7 in the first round, the criticisms leveled against Lou in recent seasons would be continue being hurled on this and other boards, with considerable fervor. I can't make the argument that 2 OT goals make-or-break Lou as far as labelling him a genius goes. We already knew how brilliant he was.

What I will say about Lou is even though the product isn't always pretty, it's almost always competitive. His teams almost always make the playoffs, and of the three Lou teams that didn't, only two of them were never really in it, and out of those two, one did manage to make things a little interesting. There's never a prolonged rebuild, or seven straight seasons of missing the playoffs. The playoff results seem to be all-or-nothing, but five SCF Finals and 3 Cups makes for a hell of an "all". And even though some of the recent "nothings" have been hard to take, at least his teams get there and have the chance, which in the NHL crapshoot playoffs is all you can ask. It's not like anyone can accurately predict what's going to happen in them anymore.

In wonderful Jekyl and Hyde fashion, I feel the need to both agree and disagree at the same time. I too believe that Lou didn't magically figure it all out. He made mistake after mistake in recent years, buried the franchise under worthless contracts for worthless players, pissed away draft picks, failed to find gems with the picks that remained, and basically watched as the Devils talent pool started to really dry up (and he deserve all of the blame). Moreover, even though he has treated some players wonderfully, he took some of our best to arbitration, dragged them thru the mud, and basically alienated them. This may have been deserved in some cases, but in surely engendered a feeling that NJ wasn't always the place to be and may have tipped the balance in some players signing away such as Neids.

OTOH, I don't think it is fair to say that a couple goals and we would all be singing the same tune. It isn't that it isn't true necessarily, but it didn't happen. Hockey is a game of inches and bounces and, truth be told, the Panthers were damn lucky (and played damn hard) to get to game seven. That the Devils had the talent to keep coming at such a passionate team and shut them down is a testament to these new, better generation of recent players. This was shown again in the Flyers and Rangers series. Sadly, we looked exhausted, beat up, hurt, and out muscled against the Kings, but even then we were competitive. After years of Lou gutting our talent base or watching it flee, I think he deserves the credit for replenishing the ole cupboards. That said, I am not sure that we have the elite level of talent that we had once upon a time..... But in the salary cap era who does?

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But let's face it, if Zajac and Henrique don't get it done in Games 6 and 7 in the first round, the criticisms leveled against Lou in recent seasons would be continue being hurled on this and other boards, with considerable fervor.

that's always true. its a results oriented business. think about boston last year. if horton doesn't come through in a couple game 7s, julien is fired and nobody is talking about them as an elite team.

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I went full-retard after during the first round post game three, and game five. Not too proud of it.

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Me! I have been down on Lou for a couple years. I even started a rather heated poll/thread calling for a Vote of No Confidence for Lou quite some time ago. I have to admit that he has pulled another rabbit out of his arse. However, that said, he did this only after taking about half a decade rehashing old players/ideas, signing ludicrous contracts, and just making bonheaded moves (an assessment that I still stand by despite our recent rebirth). But I gotta give Lou credit for learning from his mistakes and turning the franchise around, again, and making us Stanley Cup competitors..... I was wrong that he was washed up.

Don't want to turn this into a "debate Lou's recent tenure" moves, but how many/which moves did you think were "boneheaded" at the time they were made?

I'll admit that I wasn't always a big fan of Lou's bringing back ex-Devils, and thought he was overdoing it (Arnott was kind of the last straw with me, as far as the ex-Devil thing went), but how many of Lou's decisions really had you saying "WTF is Lou thinking?"

Also fair to keep in mind that it's really hard to hit home runs on personnel decisions year after year after year. I do think the last few seasons did leave Lou a little shaken, as he's a guy who was clearly used to having his moves big and small work out...I think before the '10-'11 season, Lou thought he had built a SC contender...he had to have been just as stunned by that 10-29-2 disastrous start as everyone else.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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When the Devils hired DeBoer, I thought he looked like a dear in the headlights. Because they waiting so long to pick a coach I assumed he was not plan A or B (or C or D). I was worried we had John Maclean 2.0 as our coach

Edited by eaglejelly

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Clarkson was pretty lucky this season. If he goes back to 17 goals and 13 assists what will the consensus be on him then? Our PP is still too predictable. Everything can't revolve around Kovalchuk, they need more shots from the right side of the ice and down low.

I agree 100%. More rotation, especially off the goal line and half wall. They really need to look how Philly used Jeff Carter and employ those formations for Kovy, Clarky, and Zajac. Once opposing teams have to respect down low, guys like Zids and Larson will be able to step in from up top and find greater success.

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I've scratched my head in the past over moves that Lou didn't make, but not for moves like signing Clarkie or Kovy. Getting Kovy was a great, great move. But really I don't know that he built a Stanley Cup contender so much as he built a team that really 'surprisingly competed'. Great pick on the coach though, so i really can't say anything. I may wonder out loud once in a while but would never presume to do a better job ;)

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I've scratched my head in the past over moves that Lou didn't make, but not for moves like signing Clarkie or Kovy. Getting Kovy was a great, great move. But really I don't know that he built a Stanley Cup contender so much as he built a team that really 'surprisingly competed'. Great pick on the coach though, so i really can't say anything. I may wonder out loud once in a while but would never presume to do a better job ;)

Impossible to argue the Kovy move, even if Kovy had walked after the season. There wasn't a player dealt that was anywhere near Kovy's league, and the main prospect (Bergfors) in that deal isn't even an NHL player anymore.

I was against bringing him back, and though it will take several seasons to determine if this was a good signing, he DID help the team get to a Cup final in his second season, and WAS a big reason why they got that far...this wasn't Mogilny circa 2000, in "along for the ride" mode.

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