snartly

on November 11, when Minnesota comes to town, what do we do to Zach?

   102 members have voted

  1. 1. What should we do when Parise comes back to Jersey

    • Boo at him every time he touches the puck
    • applaud him before the game for all of his work for the devils
    • Chant "Kovy's better"

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183 posts in this topic

I'm over it. I honestly don't even care if the current fiance eventually marries and leaves with most of that dough. I never bought anything with his name on it because there was always the chance he was going to leave - the one year contract really pointed that out. At this point I care more about who will get the "C" now than I care about him.

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Soeaking of people we were shocked to see go, I remember being pretty blindsided by Gionta going to Montreal. I mentioned this somewhere on Page 2, but I see Parise as only a notch or two above Gio in terms of "shock value" and damage to the franchise. I'll leave the advanced sabermetrics to those far better at it, but a quick glace at the biggies show the following:

Gionta (not counting 01-02 when he played half in NJ, half in Albany)

6 seasons as a Devil

148 goals

153 Assists

301 Points

Parise (not counting 10-11 when he missed all but 13 games)

6 seasons as a Devil

194 goals

216 assists

410 points

Now, it's obvious Parise is a different caliber player than Gionta, but how much of one is he really? Is it that much different? When Gio left, there were some upset people but now that Zach's gone, the entire board is aflame with outrage. Is he really worht that much rage? How about this comparison:

Playoff Gionta (again, not counting 01-02)

67 games as a Devil

19 goals

21 assists

40 points

Playoff Parise

61 games played

21 goals

22 assists

43 points

Sure, it's a small sample size, but those stats are almost dead even, yet when Gio left there was suprise and hurt but now that Zach is gone, we have posters pissing on Parise jerseys. And yes, Parise was our captain but Gio wore the A. I guess it just goes to show how much he meant to us on an emotional level. We had man crushes on him and he broke up with us. That's fair! But when you look at it objectively, as many of my non-Devil fan friends have come up to me and said, it's not the worst thing in the world to happen to the organization. It sucks, no doubt about it, but it's something that can be overcome.

And one more thing. I firmly believe the fans can be as pissed off as they want about this. Nobody can or should tell you how to feel. You feel like booing him on the 11th, boo away. I just find the universal outrage absolutely fascinating. Maybe it's just the exposure of the internet or how easily it is to be caught up in the anger, but I've never seen Devil fan backlash like this before. This trumps the Gomez defection, which still remains, in my opinion, the biggest FU a player has ever done to this franchise.

You can't really compare Gionta and Parise. By the time he left, Gionta was clearly on a downward trajectory. Gio's overall numbers were also boosted by what was clearly an anomolous season. True, Parise's numbers have declined a bit from his 08-09 season. However, they were still good the following season, especially when you consider he was playing under Lemaire's more defensive system. This past year, he got off to a slow start probably as a result of missing the entire previous system and getting used to a new coach (same as Kovy).

I expect Parise to put up at least 30 plus goals and 75 plus points for the foreseeable future. Whether that's worth $98 million is another question with the huge upfront money, which blows Kovy's up front money out the water.

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This is how I feel about Gomez as well. With Gomez, I felt there was literally 0 chance he was re-signing here. The main thing that stung about Gomez was where he went. He also decided within 5 minutes of FA opening it seemed and never gave me any thought that he was even considering signing here. Zach was a lot different. I personally felt that he was going to leave, but I had been preparing for it all year so I expected the worst. The only respite from Zach leaving is where. Gomez also wasn't a captain and we weren't 2 games from a cup when he bolted.

I rank the sting of guys leaving like this:

1. Niedermayer 2. Parise 3. Holik 4. Gomez

I only count those four because the other guys who have left, we mostly knew they were going and the consensus was that it wasn't a big deal. Madden was my favorite player when he was here, so that one stung personally, but I didn't hate the guy (nor do I) because it was an expected departure.

I definitely agree with the ranking of those four players but you might want to throw Martin into that mix; I don't think people felt his leaving was no big deal. Yeah, he might be at number 5 for me on that list, but his leaving wasn't easy for me to take either.

One place we differ about Parise is that I bought his crap about wanting to stay, so I think his leaving stings me more than it does you. Overall, however, Nieds' actions stung more than Parise's ever will.

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I definitely agree with the ranking of those four players but you might want to throw Martin into that mix; I don't think people felt his leaving was no big deal. Yeah, he might be at number 5 for me on that list, but his leaving wasn't easy for me to take either.

Its less that I dont think Martin wasn't a big deal, moreso that I think most people (at least myself) thought he was going to leave. At the time Martin's departure stung, but I think now most of us look at it that it was a good decision to let him walk. I think we may look at Parise like that as well (even now from a contractual standpoint), but Martin was never Captain and we weren't coming off of a Finals appearance when he left nor did Martin seem to lead the fanbase on.

Id actually put Rafalski 5th, but there's no ill will towards him at all. I was hoping he'd have been a career Devil.

Edited by ghdi

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I'm with Rowdy, dr33, '7', etc.

He didn't sign with the Rangers. He didn't sign with the Flyers. He didn't even stay in the division. Hell, he didn't even stay in the conference.

Sure, he said "We" a couple times while still under contract. Big whoop. And he said "Don't worry" one time. I'm not even sure what that means, but they're both a pretty far cry from "I pinky swear that I'll be a Devil for life." "We" and "Don't worry" carry a lot less weight than hiring a team of agents and going to July 1, IMO, so anyone who was blindsided by this was trying way too hard to convince themselves that Zach would stay.

In this era of professional sports, the second someone hires an agent we fans have to start mentally preparing ourselves for their departure. It sucks, but it's just the nature of being a sports fan now. If they end up staying, then great. It makes you appreciate the player all the more for it (like Elias). But if they leave, at least you're a little more prepared for the reality of it. Just a suggestion, take it or leave it.

In the end, Zach is worth nothing remotely close to the contract he got, so I'm glad he's gone in that respect. I've been fearful for the last couple years of the notion of locking Zach up to some long term, big money deal because the writing is on the wall. He's a small guy and plays a style that absorbs a ton of punishment. When injuries and/or age bring on a decline in his skills, he'll be Jay Pandolfo. I loved Pando, but not for $7.5M/year.

We're better off.

Best of luck to Zach out west. He gave us some good memories and no real great ones.

Now back to your regularly scheduled venting ...

There isn't much here that contradicts anything I have to say and for at least the most part I am in general agreement. Nice post.

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I don't know if this quite belongs here, but since it's the thread I've done the most arguing in, I figure I might as well put it here. Hopefully this will be the last I have to say about the whole thing.

I get being disappointed. I even get being upset to an extent. I don't get seething with the type of anger usually reserved for the girl who dumped you and stomped on your heart... or the muscle-bound meathead she left you for. (Reading back those words, maybe I should get it, but I also don't get forming such a close attachment to a professional athlete that you'd feel the same way about his departure that you'd feel about breaking up with your girlfriend.) And I really don't get having to resort to revisionist history as a coping mechanism, not for something like this.

I didn't blame Rafalski for wanting to go home. I didn't resent Niedermayer for leaving to go play with his brother, even though it spooked Lou into making some of the worst mistakes of his career. Even though I probably should have been mad at Gomez and Holik for jumping to the Rangers, I was more disappointed than anything else; same thing when MacLean signed there after his trade to San Jose. (And with Gomer, I don't quite remember, but I think I was also in the "we're better off without him" camp.) I don't think I felt anything when Martin left. What I'm building up to is this: I can't be angry at Parise for going home with one of his best friends. I'm disappointed that he left, sure, but I can't bring myself to be mad at the guy. He doesn't owe me a damn thing, and I'd be wrong to act like he does.

Finally, DIG's right about Parise's value. He's totally not worth $7.5 million a year for 13 years. He might be just barely worth it for a handful of years, but the contract will outlive his career and by the time it's over, he'll have declined comparable to Pandolfo. Definitely not worth the cap hit the Wild will be stuck with. Long story short, there may be some short-term pain in Devil land without Parise, but long term, we're better off.

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I don't know if this quite belongs here, but since it's the thread I've done the most arguing in, I figure I might as well put it here. Hopefully this will be the last I have to say about the whole thing.

I get being disappointed. I even get being upset to an extent. I don't get seething with the type of anger usually reserved for the girl who dumped you and stomped on your heart... or the muscle-bound meathead she left you for. (Reading back those words, maybe I should get it, but I also don't get forming such a close attachment to a professional athlete that you'd feel the same way about his departure that you'd feel about breaking up with your girlfriend.) And I really don't get having to resort to revisionist history as a coping mechanism, not for something like this.

I didn't blame Rafalski for wanting to go home. I didn't resent Niedermayer for leaving to go play with his brother, even though it spooked Lou into making some of the worst mistakes of his career. Even though I probably should have been mad at Gomez and Holik for jumping to the Rangers, I was more disappointed than anything else; same thing when MacLean signed there after his trade to San Jose. (And with Gomer, I don't quite remember, but I think I was also in the "we're better off without him" camp.) I don't think I felt anything when Martin left. What I'm building up to is this: I can't be angry at Parise for going home with one of his best friends. I'm disappointed that he left, sure, but I can't bring myself to be mad at the guy. He doesn't owe me a damn thing, and I'd be wrong to act like he does.

That's how I am, but even I haven't gotten too disappointed over many athletes leaving. Parise would have to be the most disappointed I have been, and I'm not even that disappointed. I expected him to leave, but not even too Minny. I'm more impressed he passed on some great opportunities like Chicago, Pittsburgh, Philly, and Detroit to go home. I honestly don't even remember being upset when Niedermayer, Gomez, or Holik left. Free agency is a right given to all NHL players. Go wherever you want. There is no loyalty in sports and fans always side with management in the end. Ray Allen is one of the classiest players in sports, and a HOF player. The Celtics tried to trade him multiple times over the last year, but it never worked out. They sent him to the bench in the playoffs and even signed a player that plays his position a week ago. Ray ends up signing with the Celtics rivals, the Miami Heat. It's an unbelievable opportunity for him where his strengths will be magnified. Yet the fans are all calling him a traitor and are absolutely crushing him. He thought that all he did for the franchise in helping them win another ring would excuse him, but no chance.

I just don't want players to be total dicks about it. If Zach signed with the Rangers after his comments, I'd prob be ticked for a bit, but probably soon forgive him. I'm a Toronto Raptors fan, and I knew Chris Bosh was going to leave after the 2010 season. I didn't even want him back on the team. But he acted like a douche on his way out. Just two weeks after the season ended he tweeted, "Been wanting to ask, where should I go next season and why." But even after a weeks, I got over it and cheered him on when he won a title this past season. And you can't ask more of a jackass question than that.

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Finally, DIG's right about Parise's value. He's totally not worth $7.5 million a year for 13 years. He might be just barely worth it for a handful of years, but the contract will outlive his career and by the time it's over, he'll have declined comparable to Pandolfo. Definitely not worth the cap hit the Wild will be stuck with. Long story short, there may be some short-term pain in Devil land without Parise, but long term, we're better off.

I feel like this is actually the general sentiment of the board.

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