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NewarkDevil5

Should the New Jersey Devils Consider Going After Alexander Semin?

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In my mind trading is almost on par with free agency. You're giving up roster players and potential in picks. It's just as much of a crap shoot as UFAs.

Except its not when you have to deal with a salary cap.

If we bring on the wrong guy in free agency, it can tap cap room that we need to make a potential trade. See Rolston. See The 3 M's. This goes for every team, not just for us as I realize we have cap room, but we also have financial issues.

For every good trade, there is a sh!t one. There are far more crappy UFA pickups than not.

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Barch and Janssen both serve specific roles!

Well I guess this answers the age old question of "How many goons does it take to play on the New Jersey Devils?"

We only needed one guy, not Janssen and Barch.

I'm not being impatient, but Lou has a habit of kind of waiting things out. It seems that he gets caught off guard because of waiting.

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Except its not when you have to deal with a salary cap.

If we bring on the wrong guy in free agency, it can tap cap room that we need to make a potential trade. See Rolston. See The 3 M's. This goes for every team, not just for us as I realize we have cap room, but we also have financial issues.

For every good trade, there is a sh!t one. There are far more crappy UFA pickups than not.

You still gotta deal with the cap issues after a trade. If Lou was concerned with cap he wouldn't have signed two morons like Janssen and Barch.

And I guess you're right about Janssen being a decent two way player. I guess we're lucky with that since Janssen has zero skill with the puck and hence ends up pinned in his zone due to his sh!tty skills.

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That's utter nonsense Tri. You can't prove factually that siging UFAs is worse off than trades or organizational development. For every Scott Gomez signing there's a Zdeno Chara signing. I'll point you to the big UFA of 2011, Ilya Kovalchuk. Although, he was questionable the first half of the 10-11 season, he has vastly improved the Devils.

If you're saying the way to go is through player development then why haven't the Oilers been competitive since 05-06? They are a total free agent dead zone.

The only team that has had overwhelming success with player development in the recent past has been the Penguins and that's cause they continuously tanked their way into some very solid draft classes. Even with that the Pens still can't develop any good wingers for Malkin and Crosby.

Yes, I can. Just do a little thought experiment - consider a new team that signs all the players who were UFA this summer. It might look something like this:

Parise-Jokinen-Parenteau

Hudler-?-Samuelsson

Mitchell-McClement-Tootoo

Moen-Konopka-Asham

Suter-Garrison

Carle-Kuba

Souray-Aucoin

Brodeur

Mason

That team looks okay - no 2nd line center, but I think they'd be a playoff team unless the goaltending really let them down. Trouble is, they'd cost 65.1 million. They'd have cap room, but not much, and if the cap comes down, they're in trouble.

Chara was a great signing, but you forget, he cost 7.5M on a 44M cap. If he signed an equivalent contract now, he'd cost 11.93M on the cap.

Free agents can help, but they are the worst way to build a team. Kovalchuk's helped out, but he has 13 years left on his contract and is coming off a back injury. That contract could be terrible very soon.

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Yes, I can. Just do a little thought experiment - consider a new team that signs all the players who were UFA this summer. It might look something like this:

Parise-Jokinen-Parenteau

Hudler-?-Samuelsson

Mitchell-McClement-Tootoo

Moen-Konopka-Asham

Suter-Garrison

Carle-Kuba

Souray-Aucoin

Brodeur

Mason

That team looks okay - no 2nd line center, but I think they'd be a playoff team unless the goaltending really let them down. Trouble is, they'd cost 65.1 million. They'd have cap room, but not much, and if the cap comes down, they're in trouble.

Chara was a great signing, but you forget, he cost 7.5M on a 44M cap. If he signed an equivalent contract now, he'd cost 11.93M on the cap.

Free agents can help, but they are the worst way to build a team. Kovalchuk's helped out, but he has 13 years left on his contract and is coming off a back injury. That contract could be terrible very soon.

I'm not saying bust the bank with free agent signings. We're not the Rangers.

What I am saying is that signing guys like Barch and Janssen don't help to make us competitive and burn a hole in the pocketbook. Plus, like I posted above, we don't have very many forwards from Albany that can step up right now. I mean, maybe Zalewski and Tedenby, but where do you put them? 4th line with Barch and Janssen. So we go from a playoff team that could run 4 talented lines to a team that can only run 3 talented lines. Please pay attention because "talent" is the optimal word in that last sentence.

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Like I wrote in my previous post, it's not about the big names, but what players are out there in free agency to play a meaningful role. Signing Janssen and Barch was completely pointless. If anything proves this it was the Rangers/Devils series. We stayed above the goonery, but the Rags couldn't help it with guys like Rupp and Prust. If anything goonery is headed towards the mold of a hybrid goon like a Tootoo or Prust. Someone who can play when need be. But, besides Parise, re-upping goons wasn't out other priority. If you look through Capgeek's list of available free agent forwards there are still plenty that Lou could have signed which would have made me breath a bit easier. Instead he chose to sign two guys who should have chosen different careers.

Tri can correct me if I'm wrong on the precise terminology for the logical fallacy, but you've presented a false dichotomy. Lou was not presented with the dilemma of (1) signing Janssen and Barch or (2) not signing Janssen and Barch and getting a player to your liking. Whether the Devils do or do not get Semin, Doan, Nash, Crosby, getting Parise to change his mind and come back, has nothing to do with Janssen or Barch.

If anything, Lou's biggest blunder was Salvador's deal. Because of that, we'll likely be downgrading our defensive corps by being forced to trade someone better.

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The more silence...the more I am skidish on Semin. I know most people here feel the team needs a replacement for Parise, but you can't get desperate and Semin just doesn't feel like that be it. I have heard some comparisons about Kovalchuk in Atlanta and Semin in Washington, but I don't see them at all. Kovalchuk was never described as lazy, not caring, unfriendly, unmotivated, etc. If anything Kovalchuk was criticized as times being too selfish because he felt he needed to be the one to will the team to victory. He's the one who felt he had to do it himself and go 1-on-5. Kovalchuk was also a guy who learned English and was friendly with everyone on the team. Semin doesn't speak English and has no relationship with anyone on Washington and has made no effort to build any.

When a player comes out and says the things that Matt Bradley said about Semin and no one really on your own team defends you, that says something. He felt Semin didn't have any interest in being in Washington and wanted to go back to Russia, while he defended and praised Ovechkin heavily as a team-first guy.

And finally, it just seems like GMs around the league are scared sh!tless about giving this guy a long-term deal. We have already heard Jim Rutherford make the comments and he is badly looking to add scoring. No one can trust this guy at all. It's the reason he has been on 1-year deals the last little while in Washington too. This guy has too many red flags. Sometimes you have to look past the talent. It seems like most GMs are.

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Tri can correct me if I'm wrong on the precise terminology for the logical fallacy, but you've presented a false dichotomy. Lou was not presented with the dilemma of (1) signing Janssen and Barch or (2) not signing Janssen and Barch and getting a player to your liking. Whether the Devils do or do not get Semin, Doan, Nash, Crosby, getting Parise to change his mind and come back, has nothing to do with Janssen or Barch.

If anything, Lou's biggest blunder was Salvador's deal. Because of that, we'll likely be downgrading our defensive corps by being forced to trade someone better.

I'm not connecting the signings of Barch or Janssen to Parise or other potential UFA signings. I'm arguing that Lou made a mistake in signing two enforcers. If this club is going to need to pinch pennies then signing Barch and Janssen is nonsense because only one guy is needed.

So are you making a Schroedenger's Cat argument with Janssen and Barch? If we put them in a box do they remain signed and unsigned?

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Semin doesn't speak English and has no relationship with anyone on Washington and has made no effort to build any.

I could care less if he doesn't speak English or not.

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I could care less if he doesn't speak English or not.

Our coaches and players may.

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The more silence...the more I am skidish on Semin. I know most people here feel the team needs a replacement for Parise, but you can't get desperate and Semin just doesn't feel like that be it. I have heard some comparisons about Kovalchuk in Atlanta and Semin in Washington, but I don't see them at all. Kovalchuk was never described as lazy, not caring, unfriendly, unmotivated, etc. If anything Kovalchuk was criticized as times being too selfish because he felt he needed to be the one to will the team to victory. He's the one who felt he had to do it himself and go 1-on-5. Kovalchuk was also a guy who learned English and was friendly with everyone on the team. Semin doesn't speak English and has no relationship with anyone on Washington and has made no effort to build any.

When a player comes out and says the things that Matt Bradley said about Semin and no one really on your own team defends you, that says something. He felt Semin didn't have any interest in being in Washington and wanted to go back to Russia, while he defended and praised Ovechkin heavily as a team-first guy.

And finally, it just seems like GMs around the league are scared sh!tless about giving this guy a long-term deal. We have already heard Jim Rutherford make the comments and he is badly looking to add scoring. No one can trust this guy at all. It's the reason he has been on 1-year deals the last little while in Washington too. This guy has too many red flags. Sometimes you have to look past the talent. It seems like most GMs are.

There is evidence of Semin being liked. It was only one teammate who said anything and that is a knock against Bradley for opening his mouth. His other teammates obviously shouldn't have responded and blew up the story more. There are red flags and its a questionable signing but as far as I've seen his teammates get on with him just fine.

Semin doesn't speak English and has no relationship with anyone on Washington and has made no effort to build any.

Aside from the English issue which I have pointed out as a red flag myself, this is just complete speculation.

I do like what u said about Kovy.

Edited by ben00rs

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I'm not connecting the signings of Barch or Janssen to Parise or other potential UFA signings. I'm arguing that Lou made a mistake in signing two enforcers. If this club is going to need to pinch pennies then signing Barch and Janssen is nonsense because only one guy is needed.

Janssen has a two way deal. Barch and Janssen are maybe both in the lineup together for 5 to 10 games. Barch probably plays maybe 20 to 30 games, and he's not completely worthless. At worst the signings are silly. Boulton was as useless a signing as it gets. It ultimately did not effect the end result of last season. The cost of Boulton's buy out is essentially a rounding error.

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Janssen has a two way deal. Barch and Janssen are maybe both in the lineup together for 5 to 10 games. Barch probably plays maybe 20 to 30 games, and he's not completely worthless. At worst the signings are silly. Boulton was as useless a signing as it gets. It ultimately did not effect the end result of last season. The cost of Boulton's buy out is essentially a rounding error.

I look at Barch as an upgrade of Boulton. Boulton was a pylon. Barch actually can skate.

I don't see either Barch or Cam getting any time in the playoffs. This was a move made for the regular season, which is what we should be focused on now. We can worry about adding for the playoff run at the deadline when there will be more sellers. Everyone's at square one right now thinking they have a chance.

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Janssen has a two way deal. Barch and Janssen are maybe both in the lineup together for 5 to 10 games. Barch probably plays maybe 20 to 30 games, and he's not completely worthless. At worst the signings are silly. Boulton was as useless a signing as it gets. It ultimately did not effect the end result of last season. The cost of Boulton's buy out is essentially a rounding error.

If you want to replace poop with poop then sign Barch. There's no need to sign Janssen. Guy's a sideshow. He should be working in a big tent, lifting up heavy objects with his nutsack.

Edited by CarpathianForest

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There's no need to sign Janssen. Guy's a sideshow. He should be working in a big tent, lifting up heavy objects with his nutsack.

In other words, Albany, which could be very well where he's spending most of the season. Or perhaps in the press box taking pictures with fans.

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In other words, Albany, which could be very well where he's spending most of the season. Or perhaps in the press box taking pictures with fans.

In other words, he offers nothing of value on the ice to the Devils. He's just a giant 500,000 dollar hole.

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In other words, he offers nothing of value on the ice to the Devils. He's just a giant 500,000 dollar hole.

That was on this team last year, a team who made the Stanley Cup Finals. As was Boulton.

Again, you're complaining about a move that has nothing to do with the Parise move.

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In other words, he offers nothing of value on the ice to the Devils. He's just a giant 500,000 dollar hole.

If he's in Albany, it's more like a $50,000 hole. Otherwise, you're not writing the check, it doesn't effect the amount of money you end up shelling out to go to a game, the mystery investor doesn't care, the creditors don't care, and it won't effect any other possible beneficial roster move down the road.

It doesn't matter.

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That was on this team last year, a team who made the Stanley Cup Finals. As was Boulton.

Again, you're complaining about a move that has nothing to do with the Parise move.

I noted earlier that I'm not making the argument in regards to Parise.

Boulton and Janssen had about as much to do with us making the SCF as the Devils mascot did, maybe even less.

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Boulton and Janssen had about as much to do with us making the SCF as the Devils mascot did, maybe even less.

And the re-signing of Janssen and Barch have nothing to do with "replacing" anyone other than Boulton. Its not a bad thing to have some muscle/goonery on the team.

They're moves for the regular season. Why are you carrying on so much about this? Nobody else seems to be giving as much of a sh!t about this as you. There's still 3 months before the season to improve and "replace" Parise.

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And the re-signing of Janssen and Barch have nothing to do with "replacing" anyone other than Boulton. Its not a bad thing to have some muscle/goonery on the team.

They're moves for the regular season. Why are you carrying on so much about this? Nobody else seems to be giving as much of a sh!t about this as you. There's still 3 months before the season to improve and "replace" Parise.

Because just when I think I've exhausted my discussion I read WTF things like, "We signed Barch to replace Boulton." Is it just me or was there really a desperate need to replace Eric Boulton?

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Because just when I think I've exhausted my discussion I read WTF things like, "We signed Barch to replace Boulton." Is it just me or was there really a desperate need to replace Eric Boulton?

There wasn't a desperate need but Lou clearly likes to have 2 enforcers i.e. Boulton and Jansse last year, so Boulton did need to be replaced. Lou knew the guy he wanted so he got him - it wasn't done out of haste. Just because he signed him before he did bigger, more important moves doesn't mean it was desperate. Not everything is going to happen in the order that the fans want it to happen.

For all we know, Lou already had an idea of who he was going to trade before he signed Barch.

Edited by ben00rs

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Because just when I think I've exhausted my discussion I read WTF things like, "We signed Barch to replace Boulton." Is it just me or was there really a desperate need to replace Eric Boulton?

Who else would Barch be "replacing"? Barch is nothing more than an enforcer-type. We had two enforcers last year. Just because he bought out Boulton doesnt mean that he didnt want another one. Boulton was crap for us last year. In 10-11 we had no muscle and a lot of people thought that was an issue, the year prior to that we had Peters and LeBlond. And none of them ever play that many games anyway.

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im actually in favor of signing semin but his addition would not help one of our biggest needs; toughness/grit.

we need a sandpaper type a la steve ott or steve downie. not a player who slap fights with his gloves on.

he does have some phenomenal skills tho.

im torn.

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im actually in favor of signing semin but his addition would not help one of our biggest needs; toughness/grit.

we need a sandpaper type a la steve ott or steve downie. not a player who slap fights with his gloves on.

he does have some phenomenal skills tho.

im torn.

Oh, pick me pick me pick me!

Avery.

(If anyone reading this can't tell I'm kidding, go fvck yourself)

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