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Flyers sign Weber to offer sheet

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Daniel    375

If the Preds don't match, I wonder if they put in a complaint to the league that they should get four firsts instead of the 2 first, second and third. While the CBA amendment was supposed to be the final word on long-term contracts, very clearly it contemplated long-term deals to UFAs. So now you have the Flyers giving out a ton of upfront money, not only to massage the cap, but to lower the compensation you have to send the other way.

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SMantzas    315

If the Preds don't match, I wonder if they put in a complaint to the league that they should get four firsts instead of the 2 first, second and third. While the CBA amendment was supposed to be the final word on long-term contracts, very clearly it contemplated long-term deals to UFAs. So now you have the Flyers giving out a ton of upfront money, not only to massage the cap, but to lower the compensation you have to send the other way.

They'd get four firsts because it's over 7 mill

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squishyx    58

If the Preds don't match, I wonder if they put in a complaint to the league that they should get four firsts instead of the 2 first, second and third. While the CBA amendment was supposed to be the final word on long-term contracts, very clearly it contemplated long-term deals to UFAs. So now you have the Flyers giving out a ton of upfront money, not only to massage the cap, but to lower the compensation you have to send the other way.

The AAV hit is 7.1m, so it's well under the threshold for 4 first round picks anyway.

Edit: you posted the 2012 numbers.

Edited by squishyx

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Z-Man    28

Lots of Weber talk down here today, obviously.

It was reported that Poile met with Weber last week and basically told him that they weren't going to have another Suter situation, so if he wasn't interested in an extension, they would trade him.

Well with reports now that SJ, NY, Detroit and Philly were all in talks for a trade, obviously Shea did not want to stay.

Now you have a situation where a player might not want to stay in Nashville, and if they match the offer sheet he's due some ungodly amount of money over the first year. No way Nashville matches the offer, pays him $20, $30 or $40 million for one year, then has to trade a player who didn't want to stay in the first place.

Like others have said, the deal is actually more cap friendly than Suter's 13 year, $98 million deal. But the Preds will have a real tough time shelling out that kind of upfront money.

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squishyx    58

This is a good contract for Nashville to match, it locks up their captain forever at a reasonable cap hit. Even with all the supposed money upfront, I'm sure the team could just borrow for a season or two to make payroll. It might sting for the next couple years but eventually they will be paying very little for his services to balance it out.

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Daniel    375

Lots of Weber talk down here today, obviously.

It was reported that Poile met with Weber last week and basically told him that they weren't going to have another Suter situation, so if he wasn't interested in an extension, they would trade him.

Well with reports now that SJ, NY, Detroit and Philly were all in talks for a trade, obviously Shea did not want to stay.

Now you have a situation where a player might not want to stay in Nashville, and if they match the offer sheet he's due some ungodly amount of money over the first year. No way Nashville matches the offer, pays him $20, $30 or $40 million for one year, then has to trade a player who didn't want to stay in the first place.

Like others have said, the deal is actually more cap friendly than Suter's 13 year, $98 million deal. But the Preds will have a real tough time shelling out that kind of upfront money.

Plus they can't trade him for a year if they match, unless something is worked out in the new CBA.

This is a good contract for Nashville to match, it locks up their captain forever at a reasonable cap hit. Even with all the supposed money upfront, I'm sure the team could just borrow for a season or two to make payroll. It might sting for the next couple years but eventually they will be paying very little for his services to balance it out.

Someone's gotta agree to lend you the money. Don't know you can just assume that there will be someone willing to do that.

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Triumph    645

The Flyers would forfeit their next 4 1st round picks in this deal. I bet Holmgren doesn't even realize that, though.

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Martyisth3b3st    1,247

The AAV hit is 7.1m, so it's well under the threshold for 4 first round picks anyway.

Edit: you posted the 2012 numbers.

DF118 posted this earlier addressing the rules for compensation, don't know if his source is legit or not but...

1. What's the compensation? The average value is just 7.14M, doesnt that mean it's only 2 firsts, a 2nd, and a 3rd?

A: No, as per CBA 10.4, the term used in an offersheet calculation is the lower of the term of the contract and five years. 100M/5 = 20M. 20M > 8.4M. Compensation is four first round picks.

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squishyx    58

Someone's gotta agree to lend you the money. Don't know you can just assume that there will be someone willing to do that.

The NHL for starters, when they advanced the Devils some money recently they said it wasn't uncommon. We don't know the exact details of Weber's contract but if he is getting 30% of a 14 year deal in the first year, then at some point the contract has to be awesome to balance it out, so the Preds probably don't need a lot of time.

Now on the other hand if the rumors about them wanted to trade Shea are true, then they probably will take the picks, but if you don't want Weber on your team for that cap hit then you probably don't want a very successful franchise.

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@RealKyper, Weber's deal is $110M over 14 years, including $68M in signing bonuses over first six years.

holy crap

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SS-SS    3

With Pronger and Weber at the Flyers blue line the division got tougher. We are weakened by Parise's departure and the Flyers just got better.

I think we will need to improve one way or another going into this season. Top 6 forward (RW) is a must IMO.

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Daniel    375

The Flyers would forfeit their next 4 1st round picks in this deal. I bet Holmgren doesn't even realize that, though.

I think the Flyers got under the 4 1st round treshhold, unless the CBA amendment has addressed front-loading. Per my link, $8.4 million.

EDIT: Looks like Tri's right:

Sam Carchidi ‏@BroadStBull

For compensation, they divide 5 years (not 14) into total value (about $100M), which is why #Flyers wld have to give 4 first-rounders.

Retweeted by CapGeek

Edited by Daniel

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squishyx    58

DF118 posted this earlier addressing the rules for compensation, don't know if his source is legit or not but...

Here's the full rule:

The number and quality of draft choices due to the Prior Club shall be based

on the average annual value of the compensation contained in the Principal Terms (as

defined in Section 10.3(e) hereof) of the New Club's Offer Sheet (determined by dividing

such compensation by the lesser of the number of years of the Offer Sheet or five), based

on the following scale:

I guess that's a way to interpret the rule, but if that is true whats to stop a team from signing a player to a back-loaded RFA deal with little to no compensation?

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lucifer91    37

@RealKyper, Weber's deal is $110M over 14 years, including $68M in signing bonuses over first six years.

holy crap

Sorry, this sh!t pisses me off. I know its "within the guidelines" but the Kovy Contract punishment looks absolutely stupid now. 11.3/yr for first 6 years in signing bonuses alone, with a cap hit of 7.85 is in the spirit of the CBA? Bullsh!t.

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NJDevs4978    219

This is a good contract for Nashville to match, it locks up their captain forever at a reasonable cap hit. Even with all the supposed money upfront, I'm sure the team could just borrow for a season or two to make payroll. It might sting for the next couple years but eventually they will be paying very little for his services to balance it out.

Good contract? They have to give Weber $41 million over two calendar years.

Each insane contract like this only makes me more determined to make this joke of a league pry the first rounder out of Lou's cold, dead hands.

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Eztarget    1

The Flyers would forfeit their next 4 1st round picks in this deal. I bet Holmgren doesn't even realize that, though.

Who cares. With their young core in 4 years they'd have guys just hitting 30.

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RedArmy8    1

This must mean Pronger is done.

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Sorry, this sh!t pisses me off. I know its "within the guidelines" but the Kovy Contract punishment looks absolutely stupid now. 11.3/yr for first 6 years in signing bonuses alone, with a cap hit of 7.85 is in the spirit of the CBA? Bullsh!t.

it really is a SERIOUS violation of the "spirit of the CBA"

the Kovy deal seems normal and ok by this contract...

the flyers really should be penalized for this insane contract that really could screw over a small market team... its basically FORCING Nashville to not match

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Triumph    645

I guess that's a way to interpret the rule, but if that is true whats to stop a team from signing a player to a back-loaded RFA deal with little to no compensation?

The fact that no player would ever sign such a deal?

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RSC    28

Here's the full rule:

I guess that's a way to interpret the rule, but if that is true whats to stop a team from signing a player to a back-loaded RFA deal with little to no compensation?

Probably the fact that few, if any, players would sign a back-loaded offer sheet.

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Daniel    375

Good contract? They have to give Weber $41 million over two calendar years.

Each insane contract like this only makes me more determined to make this joke of a league pry the first rounder out of Lou's cold, dead hands.

Again, the amendment to the CBA specifically addresses these types of contracts, so you can't compare this with Kovy's deal. Also, the Flyers certainly aren't coming out of this unscathed. Don't care how good you think you're going to be for the next four years, four firsts is a lot to give up for anything.

You're right though that the penalty was a joke. The intent of the cap-circumvention penalty was to address under the table type arrangements. Everything with Kovy was out in the open.

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Triumph    645

Who cares. With their young core in 4 years they'd have guys just hitting 30.

Who cares? It's really hard to put together a great team without guys on entry level contracts. They're a young team but their young players are going to get paid a lot. It's not a huge deal - 1st round picks miss a lot where the Flyers would be drafting from - but it would hamper the team down the road.

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squishyx    58

Good contract? They have to give Weber $41 million over two calendar years.

Each insane contract like this only makes me more determined to make this joke of a league pry the first rounder out of Lou's cold, dead hands.

That's a shortsighted outlook, it's all about the average rate over the long haul. If you assume 41m in 2 years over the (now 110m contract) then the Preds are paying an aav 5.75m for 12 years for Weber from years 3 through 14.

It does rub me the wrong way to see the recent 13+ year contracts handed out at roughly the same total amount as Kovy, but we don't know the structure of the contracts which is what the league had a problem with. Also none of those contracts take the players past 41 while our's still takes Kovy till he is 42. It's a fine line that I guess other GM's have learned not to cross.

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RSC    28

That's a shortsighted outlook, it's all about the average rate over the long haul. If you assume 41m in 2 years over the (now 110m contract) then the Preds are paying an aav 5.75m for 12 years for Weber from years 3 through 14.

It does rub me the wrong way to see the recent 13+ year contracts handed out at roughly the same total amount as Kovy, but we don't know the structure of the contracts which is what the league had a problem with. Also none of those contracts take the players past 41 while our's still takes Kovy till he is 42. It's a fine line that I guess other GM's have learned not to cross.

Except Nashville has a strict internal cap, so Philly gave him $41 million over two years in the hope that Nashville will remain adherent to it.

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