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Lockout 2012-2013 (Hockey's back!)

   130 members have voted

  1. 1. When will we see hockey?

    • Oct 12
      10
    • Nov 12
      19
    • Dec 12
      26
    • Jan 13
      33
    • Feb 13
      1
    • Mar 13
      0
    • Apr 13
      0
    • Oct 13
      14
    • Never
      27

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1,718 posts in this topic

I have decided to keep my season tickets (already knew I would not make games after oct anyways), but I am not buying a single peice of gear for the forseeable future.

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gahh, i just want hockey...

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The NHL is waiting for PA's counterproposal but will only listen if the proposal includes massive cuts. Thus, not talking about it.

Fehr's stradgety: agree on many small issues to build a "relationship" then work on the core issues.

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Wow. I guess it's pretty clear that these guys are in no way worried about a possible mass-exodus of fans like we saw with baseball in 1994. I'm not saying I think there will be one (personally, I think there will be a more noticeable dropoff the longer this goes on), but it's apparent that the NHL and NHLPA are more than willing to risk it.

Fans don't care about missing the first half of the season. Missing the second half and playoffs is what really angers fans, like in the 1994 MLB strike.

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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Fans don't care about missing the first half of the season. Missing the second half and playoffs is what really angers fans, like in the 1994 MLB strike.

Definitely, especially as a season ticket holder. Missing 2 or 3 months is great for my wallet. I think the inactivity and the refusal to send each other proposals (because no one wants to make the first concession) paired with the refusal to even discuss core issues is doing a lot to anger the more hardcore fans.

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I don't sanction violence against human beings, and I have to keep reminding myself it's just a game (although the arena workers who are losing their livelihoods would differ, I'm not one of them, and selfishly speaking, much as I'd like to be better, I care more about missing hockey), but there's a part of me that would like to meet Gary Bettman and hurt him. Badly. If somebody else did it, I would probably have mixed feelings (again, he's a person), but he's just a piece of sh!t scumbag, as is that clown in Boston Jacobs and a couple of other owners.

You have to remember that, at the end of the day, Bettman is an employee of the owners there to represent their interests. If they told him to make a deal today on the terms the NHLPA is offering, he would do it. He does their bidding and is their appointed representative, but the negotiation strategy and terms the owners are coming up with during these negotiations results from a collaboration of Bettman, his personnel, and the owners with the owners themselves driving the agenda. It's not exactly his fault that certain owners are allegedly dominating the talks while other owners are taking a backseat in all of this. Plus, since the players completely caved last time, these owners know that, if they wait long enough, they will do so again and that clearly is playing into their strategy here.

Bettman's problem is that he looks like Count Chocula and is probably the most unlikeable figure in all of hockey (which says a lot). He comes off as a condescending know it all that probably got the sh!t kicked out of him growing up. Since you can't boo or chant a$$hole at the owners since they are rarely ever seen or heard from, he has to take the brunt of it and, in most cases, rightfully deserves it.

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Bettman's problem is that he looks like Count Chocula and is probably the most unlikeable figure in all of hockey (which says a lot). He comes off as a condescending know it all that probably got the sh!t kicked out of him growing up. Since you can't boo or chant a$$hole at the owners since they are rarely ever seen or heard from, he has to take the brunt of it and, in most cases, rightfully deserves it.

That's a lot of it right there...the more I see Bettman the more I can't stand him, for these reasons...I see him and I think "This is a guy who has never laced up a skate in his life, probably doesn't even know HOW to skate, was always the last one picked on his team..." Look, David Stern isn't going up for a slam-dunk anytime soon, and Bud Selig isn't hitting any fastballs out of the park, but yeah, sometimed I just hate that these wormy little dorks are the ones controlling the fate of their games (and this is an extremely simplistic way of looking at things, I know that, I know there's more to the game and its problems that Bettman)...I know such dweebs are a necessary evil, but yeah, on some level that just makes them that much less likeable.

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I don't care that he works for the owners. The game being strong is in the owners' best interests long term. David Stern has made multiple decisions that the owners disagreed with that have netted them a ton of money long term. Even Selig, who was an owner first, has done lots of unpopular things, most of which have worked. Bettman needs to have the balls to do that. He's negotiated a better TV deal. Revenue sharing would benefit more owners than not, but he's always been a pawn of a couple guys, guys who make the most money and have the most to lose from revenue sharing. Going back to Selig, baseball benefited from Selig standing up to Steinbrenner and John Henry and forcing revenue sharing through (he needs to create a firm, high salary floor too, but I digress). If Bettman follows his lead, stands up to guys like Jeremy Jacobs and grows the product (which he'll never do wasting a year of Crosby's prime), nearly everyone will benefit, and even the richer owners will get some of the revenue sharing money back. There's a reason sports have a commissioner rather than just letting the owners vote: somebody needs to look at all the facts, every day, and act in the best interests of the owners, most of whom have other jobs that make more money and demand more time. Aside from the expert factor (not saying Bettman is one, but he's certainly supposed to be), the owners sometimes need to be saved from themselves. When leagues are going well, commissioners do that. Bettman never has. His best moves came after the last lockout, and only worked because the players caved. This time, the players have better representation and a much better case to keep fighting, and Bettman needs to moderate for everyone's good, but he just doesn't have it in him.

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"We didn't leave today's meeting saying this is ridiculous and there is no reason to continue meeting on any level," Daly said. "None of our discussions have led to that result. I don't expect them to at any time in the near future. But, as I said, until we're tackling the main issues I'm not sure what the urgency is to meet on a 24/7 basis."

Yeah why the rush?? Is not like we are losing anything.

http://www.nhl.com/i...s.htm?id=643283

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You have to remember that, at the end of the day, Bettman is an employee of the owners there to represent their interests. If they told him to make a deal today on the terms the NHLPA is offering, he would do it. He does their bidding and is their appointed representative, but the negotiation strategy and terms the owners are coming up with during these negotiations results from a collaboration of Bettman, his personnel, and the owners with the owners themselves driving the agenda. It's not exactly his fault that certain owners are allegedly dominating the talks while other owners are taking a backseat in all of this. Plus, since the players completely caved last time, these owners know that, if they wait long enough, they will do so again and that clearly is playing into their strategy here.

Bettman's problem is that he looks like Count Chocula and is probably the most unlikeable figure in all of hockey (which says a lot). He comes off as a condescending know it all that probably got the sh!t kicked out of him growing up. Since you can't boo or chant a$$hole at the owners since they are rarely ever seen or heard from, he has to take the brunt of it and, in most cases, rightfully deserves it.

It's safe to say that Bettman is A LOT more than a puppet. He predates most owners in the league and all of those have him to thank for actually being admitted into the club. Bettman has his own vision and agenda too, he's not just a puppet catering to the needs of the owners.

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It's safe to say that Bettman is A LOT more than a puppet. He predates most owners in the league and all of those have him to thank for actually being admitted into the club. Bettman has his own vision and agenda too, he's not just a puppet catering to the needs of the owners.

He's there because the collective owners want him to. He has done a fantastic job at growing revenues and winning labor disputes. For the owner's, he's simply amazing.

Yeah why the rush?? Is not like we are losing anything.

You missed the point. If they aren't talking the revenue split... what's the rush to meet to discuss the small items?

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The league can survive a two year lockout... hell, a 3 year lockout... They will be fine long term. It is the players who can't afford to miss this time.

Some run off to Europe, but there simply isn't space for all of them. The players will cave, the owners do not care how long this takes... The guy who signs your paycheck will ultimately be the one who determines how much of the pie he gives you.

Sure, the KHL will steal primarily Russian superstars if the NHL is locked out long term. But you aren't going to get the majority of Americans/Canadians to sign oversees... moving their families, being across the pond from extended family and friends... when the NHL comes back with the deal they want. You are not going to get the American/Canadian fan bases to ignore the NHL and pay attention solely to the KHL and other elite leagues overseas.

The players are not 'partners'. They are tradable commodities that at any moment can be traded, injured, etc.

The sooner the players realize this, the sooner we can get back to hockey.

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The league would suffer enormous financial losses if they had a 2 year lockout, franchise values would be decimated, advertisers would stay away, the league would be an absolute joke. Obviously it's dumb for the players to consider such things, but the way the players talk in these negotiations is always dumb.

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What is really the case is most of the owners will be fine with a year plus lockout...the league itself will be a joke. Another long lockout turns the NHL into a arena football league type sport. You can only have it in small Canadian towns.

Funny how the NFL became the biggest sport in America in part because the Rooneys and Maras of the world gave up some money for the greater good. Too bad the NHL doesn't have Pete Rozelle to be able to make the selfish owners realize this. Or even Bud Selig...for all the criticism he gets, at least he's a fan of the game, and tries to genuinely have the best interests of the game at heart. Bettman (and to an extent Roger Goodell) are out-of-touch corporate lawyers.

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May as well get comfortable. This could take awhile.

"One more sign the NHL lockout will be a long one popped up Friday when players for the farm teams of the Columbus Blue Jackets and New Jersey Devils, including a number of players on NHL contracts, were told to secure housing for the entire American Hockey League season."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/one-more-sign-the-nhl-lockout-will-be-a-long-one/article4609079/

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The league can survive a two year lockout... hell, a 3 year lockout... They will be fine long term. It is the players who can't afford to miss this time.

Some run off to Europe, but there simply isn't

space for all of them. The players will cave, the owners do not care how long this takes... The guy who signs your paycheck will ultimately be the one who determines how much of the pie he gives you.

Sure, the KHL will steal primarily Russian superstars if the NHL is locked out long term. But you aren't going to get the majority of Americans/Canadians to sign oversees... moving

Their families, being across the pond fromextended family and friends... when the NHL comes back with the deal they want. You

are not going to get the American/Canadian fan bases to ignore the NHL and pay attention solely to the KHL and other elite leagues overseas.

The players are not 'partners'. They are tradable commodities that at any moment can be traded, injured, etc.

The sooner the players realize this, the sooner we can get back to hockey.

Wouldn't be surprised if Kovalchuk, Datsyuk , Ovechkin etc. stayed in Russia even when the lock-out is done, if it goes long-term.

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Wouldn't be surprised if Kovalchuk, Datsyuk , Ovechkin etc. stayed in Russia even when the lock-out is done, if it goes long-term.

Major implications would take place for every Russian player if these guys do not come back and finish their contracts. They will be breaking international rules between the NHL and other leagues which would allow the international committee to forbid Russian players from playing in the Olympics and in the KHL.

Players saying they will stay overseas are just talking out of their rear end.

Edited by Zubie#8

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Major implications would take place for every Russian player if these guys do not come back and finish their contracts. They will be breaking international rules between the NHL and other leagues which would allow the international committee to forbid Russian players from playing in the Olympics and in the KHL.

Players saying they will stay overseas are just talking out of their rear end.

The players may face implications, but what implications would the league have to face for forcing players to take a pay cut on a contract that had been signed and agreed upon? This is going to turn into a huge mess if they miss a season, especially when you add in the fact that the NHL doesn't want to allow players to play in the 2014 Olympics and the KHL of course will.

The owners are going to have to accept some kind of revenue sharing to help the weaker teams or they are going to have the same problems when they come back.

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Dreger is reporting that the PA upcoming proposal will be 'radically different'. Hopefully that means concessions and not something crazy like pulling the cap off the table.

Edited by Zubie#8

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The players may face implications, but what implications would the league have to face for forcing players to take a pay cut on a contract that had been signed and agreed upon? This is going to turn into a huge mess if they miss a season, especially when you add in the fact that the NHL doesn't want to allow players to play in the 2014 Olympics and the KHL of course will.

The owners are going to have to accept some kind of revenue sharing to help the weaker teams or they are going to have the same problems when they come back.

The players aren't getting out of this without an immediate pay cut. It's just not possible, unless the escrow system gets pulled off the table, in which case you are looking at replacement players, a multiple year lock out, and so forth. If they miss a full year and the players don't take 'an immediate paycut', they will end up taking one anyway.

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The players aren't getting out of this without an immediate pay cut. It's just not possible, unless the escrow system gets pulled off the table, in which case you are looking at replacement players, a multiple year lock out, and so forth. If they miss a full year and the players don't take 'an immediate paycut', they will end up taking one anyway.

Yeah, the owners hold the power and will most likely get their way. I was just pointing out that the players face punishment if they stay in Europe, while the owners face no punishment for refusing to pay what was agreed upon. My other point was that unless the owners do something to help the smaller market teams, we will be right back here again as soon as this next CBA runs out.

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