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Lockout 2012-2013 (Hockey's back!)

   130 members have voted

  1. 1. When will we see hockey?

    • Oct 12
      10
    • Nov 12
      19
    • Dec 12
      26
    • Jan 13
      33
    • Feb 13
      1
    • Mar 13
      0
    • Apr 13
      0
    • Oct 13
      14
    • Never
      27

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1,718 posts in this topic

That will just strengthen their resolve. Why cancel games that could be played? That makes them less likely to come to a deal, which is ultimately what you need. The NHL knows it cannot afford another missed season.

There are always going to be players who want to play now because NHL careers are short. And yeah, some guys have already lost money that they won't get back, but they could lose even more if they cave now.

From your lips to god's ears. Unlike you I don't have as much faith that the NHL 'knows it can't afford another missed season', intelligence and reason are not two things I associate with Bettman and the hard-line owners. Or Fehr and some of the players.

We'll know by Thanksgiving, if the Winter Classic gets canceled it's game over for 2012-13.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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I understand all the posturing and refusal to be the first to blink, but at this point, I kind of just want my season ticket money back. They've really soured me on the whole thing now that we've blown a month of the season away. I'll always love the game, and I'll always go to games, but I'm not sure I'll ever want to dump this much money on them again.

It's a weird feeling. I finally got to the point where I could add season tickets into my personal budget a couple of years ago, and now the two sides have pretty much disgusted me. Maybe I'll feel different when a deal is reached and there's an opening day to focus on, but I can imagine they will DEFINITELY be losing some fans out of this.

Edited by Devil Dan 56

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From your lips to god's ears. Unlike you I don't have as much faith that the NHL 'knows it can't afford another missed season', intelligence and reason are not two things I associate with Bettman and the hard-line owners. Or Fehr and some of the players.

We'll know by Thanksgiving, if the Winter Classic gets canceled it's game over for 2012-13.

That's totally absurd. The sides are way too close for there to be a canceled season, Winter Classic or no. You do realize that the NHL will make money from a shortened season, right?

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You mean all those games I have been watching on the NHL network are just replays from previous seasons?

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I know a lot of this is posturing, and you can't rely upon anything Bettman says, but this makes things sound really bad going forward. Sure sounds like the owners have thrown the gauntlet down and told the NHLPA that, if they don't negotiate off of the owner's last offer, then there is nothing to be discussed. This sucks.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8547114/gary-bettman-little-hope-nhl-playing-82-game-season

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You mean all those games I have been watching on the NHL network are just replays from previous seasons?

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That's totally absurd. The sides are way too close for there to be a canceled season, Winter Classic or no. You do realize that the NHL will make money from a shortened season, right?

They won't make nearly as much money or have as much buzz as they would with a Winter Classic. There's no reason for them to give more concessions in late January than they would in November. The only way there's a season after November is if the players cave and I doubt Fehr's lets that happen.

You say they're close, but they've only discussed HRR and its debatable whether they're close there. Judging by the NHL's 'final' offer they're not close on anything else.

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They won't make nearly as much money or have as much buzz as they would with a Winter Classic. There's no reason for them to give more concessions in late January than they would in November. The only way there's a season after November is if the players cave and I doubt Fehr's lets that happen.

You say they're close, but they've only discussed HRR and its debatable whether they're close there. Judging by the NHL's 'final' offer they're not close on anything else.

It's not debatable. They are very close - 3 million per season per team. That's a bridgeable gap.

The players did not hire Fehr to have them lose another season. There have to be people in the union who know what happened last time. They hired him to get some money back from the owners. Remember, the NHL had record revenues with player salaries at 57% of revenue - they are the ones risking a lot. You underestimate just how awful it would be for the league to not play a season.

It makes sense for each side to concede more as each side risks more by not conceding - that's how this is supposed to work.

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It's not debatable. They are very close - 3 million per season per team. That's a bridgeable gap.

The players did not hire Fehr to have them lose another season. There have to be people in the union who know what happened last time. They hired him to get some money back from the owners. Remember, the NHL had record revenues with player salaries at 57% of revenue - they are the ones risking a lot. You underestimate just how awful it would be for the league to not play a season.

It makes sense for each side to concede more as each side risks more by not conceding - that's how this is supposed to work.

I'm not underestimating how bad another lost season would be, I think you're underestimating how blinded both sides are by their own ego, and the fact the league did recover from the last lockout. Don't assume that's not a factor in risking another lost season.

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I'm not underestimating how bad another lost season would be, I think you're underestimating how blinded both sides are by their own ego, and the fact the league did recover from the last lockout. Don't assume that's not a factor in risking another lost season.

. Yeah, I want to be hopeful as well... But we're talking about the NHL and the NHLPA. Common sense and logic don't apply to these people.

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I'm not underestimating how bad another lost season would be, I think you're underestimating how blinded both sides are by their own ego, and the fact the league did recover from the last lockout. Don't assume that's not a factor in risking another lost season.

They were closer a week ago than the NHL and NHLPA ever were in 2004-2005. The NHL loses big time if it loses a season - what does it have to gain? Is it really going to get a significantly better deal? I don't think so. You're believing the posturing. I've stopped believing it.

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I think a deal will be done... but I think the union will cave more than the NHL.

Losing a season is bad for both parties, but ultimately, I think the NHL fares 'better' than the common player would in that scenario.

You'll see a breaking in ranks if it gets to that point...

The owners from the very beginning seem set on 50/50...

The players seem very set on no rollbacks, etc.

I think in the end you'll see both. Fehr right now is calling it a 12.5% paycut for players... implying all teams spend to the cap. As long as the NHL allows for some way to set the cap as 50% of HRR, and not rollback salaries or allow contracts to be written off without compensation... I think you'll see them agree. Either through diminishing cap exemptions (ie first year you can exceed the cap by 10% with existing contracts only, 5% 2nd, etc, 3rd year - regular cap) With contracts being resolved through attrition, or regular buyouts, etc.

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Fehr's implication is not that all teams spend to the cap - the cap and floor are determined by the midpoint. If everyone spends to the cap, escrow likely takes back salary unless the NHL beats last year's revenue by a significant margin.

The owners are going to get 50/50, just not right away. As Fehr has pointed out, yes, the NFL and NBA went to 50/50, but no one's paychecks were cut. Everyone got what their salary said.

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They were closer a week ago than the NHL and NHLPA ever were in 2004-2005. The NHL loses big time if it loses a season - what does it have to gain? Is it really going to get a significantly better deal? I don't think so. You're believing the posturing. I've stopped believing it.

I'm not as concerned about the public posturing as I am the people involved and their track records, from Bettman and the owners constantly using lockouts to get what they want, to Fehr's history of labor strife and intractibility in baseball. You literally couldn't have two worse people in charge with so much on the line for the league.

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Fehr's implication is not that all teams spend to the cap - the cap and floor are determined by the midpoint. If everyone spends to the cap, escrow likely takes back salary unless the NHL beats last year's revenue by a significant margin.

The owners are going to get 50/50, just not right away. As Fehr has pointed out, yes, the NFL and NBA went to 50/50, but no one's paychecks were cut. Everyone got what their salary said.

When Fehr says the NHL offer is a 12% salary cut... is he not directly saying 57% dropping to 50%? ie ((50/57)-1)

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I'm not as concerned about the public posturing as I am the people involved and their track records, from Bettman and the owners constantly using lockouts to get what they want, to Fehr's history of labor strife and intractibility in baseball. You literally couldn't have two worse people in charge with so much on the line for the league.

I agree, I didn't think that either side was dumb enough to get to this point and I was wrong, I didn't think they would be dumb enough to cancel any regular season games and that's going to happen as well.

With these idiots in charge, missing 2 seasons wouldn't even surprise me at this point.

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I agree, I didn't think that either side was dumb enough to get to this point and I was wrong, I didn't think they would be dumb enough to cancel any regular season games and that's going to happen as well.

With these idiots in charge, missing 2 seasons wouldn't even surprise me at this point.

I think outside influence would end it before 'that' point, the way it did with baseball and even to an extent hockey with mediation. I just wish there could be automatic mediation imposed the minute these billion dollar leagues locked out or went on strike.

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The players should just look at forming their own WHA league. I am sick of the NHL owners bungling and greed.

With all the momentum they had in the past few years, to do this is just assinine.

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The players should just look at forming their own WHA league. I am sick of the NHL owners bungling and greed.

With all the momentum they had in the past few years, to do this is just assinine.

. When it comes to this league, common sense and logic don't apply.

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John Buccigross ‏@Buccigross

NHL sources tell me the NHL will cancel Winter Classic and All Star Game. Announcement presently scheduled for Monday.

David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod

Contrary to a report, Bill Daly tells me the NHL is NOT on the verge of cancelling Winter Classic or the All-Star Game.

Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN

Again, Bill Daly said MON was NOT a day the league would axe Winter Classic. I think it's mid to late week and they will push it

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