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Lockout 2012-2013 (Hockey's back!)

   130 members have voted

  1. 1. When will we see hockey?

    • Oct 12
      10
    • Nov 12
      19
    • Dec 12
      26
    • Jan 13
      33
    • Feb 13
      1
    • Mar 13
      0
    • Apr 13
      0
    • Oct 13
      14
    • Never
      27

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1,718 posts in this topic

And in the midst of all this suffering and destruction- right in its own back yard- the NHL, instead of attempting in some way to aid or help victims, cancels the Winter Classic. I couldn't possibly hate this league any more than I do right now.

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Well I think cancelling the Winter Classic is just a power play by the NHL. It's pretty obvious. When the season eventually comes back I think there's a legit chance the league could organize an outdoor game if they wanted to.

Which bring me to one of my few criticisms of Fehr and how the NHLPA has handled this. Why aren't they putting pressure on the league with tactics like this? If I were Fehr I'd respond with two public statements

1. I'd say I was willing to go down to 50/50 with a soft landing determined entirely by revenue split (i.e. 57% next year, 56% year after, 55% etc) instead of the mechanisms they proposed earlier. It's clear that's the compromise, and that's where we're headed.

2. I'd say I refuse to accept any CBA offer without some form of lockout insurance for next time. A mechanism that said after the CBA expires if a new deal is not in place, players get 25% of payment next year up front. Something like that. Even if it's bogus and the owners would never go for it, it would certainly get a lot of fan support and put some pressure on the NHL.

Fehr right now seems to be only reacting. On the one hand, I get it. It's clear the NHL had no interest in saving the first 20% of the season and just wanted to use losing it as leverage for the new deal. What can you do in that case? But still I'd like to see him apply some pressure here.

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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One thing that i hear a lot is that Bettman doesnt give a sh!t about hockey and that its all about the money... well yes... but Fehr doesnt give a sh!t about hockey either... he was brought in to negotiate a deal and thats it, the guy just want to win and won't bend at all.

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I dont care about this crap anymore, after what happened to our state.

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One thing that i hear a lot is that Bettman doesnt give a sh!t about hockey and that its all about the money... well yes... but Fehr doesnt give a sh!t about hockey either... he was brought in to negotiate a deal and thats it, the guy just want to win and won't bend at all.

Yeah it's odd though, he's given the vibe that he doesn't care about the lockout at all really. It's as if Fehr's strategy is to be aloof and pretend like reaching a CBA agreement isn't really a big deal. The last three proposals they made were seemingly hastily put together and he did a bad job communicating them with the media. Fehr's not playing these games like the NHL has been. His strategy being I guess based on the tenet that "Whoever wants the deal more loses in negotiation."

This strategy seems silly to me given that the NHL owners cut the player's checks, they know how short their careers are. They know that the players very livelihoods are at stake. Whereas for the owners, just one of their many business ventures is at stake. Why would they be fooled by this attitude that the NHLPA doesn't really care about reaching a CBA agreement? Seems like a gambit to me that won't work, but we'll see when the owners make their final push for an agreement, probably within a month or two.

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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I think it's the only gambit the NHLPA has. Fehr led a strike that devastated baseball. A canceled season would be brutal for hockey - yeah the players would lose, but the owners might lose more. Given the NHL's complete intransigence to date, it's easy to think that they're not concerned about missing an entire season, but I don't believe that. The fans came back last time because they believed the game had problems. They came back because of Crosby and Ovechkin and the shootout and the new rules and the salary cap. That's all gone now, and one would think that enough of the owners realize how lucky they got last time.

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I have been busy at work to pay a lot of attention to the negotiations, but since mother nature has intervened, would like to add the following.

Yes the NHL is organized as a non profit entity. Just like the NFL. They are recognized as business leagues chambers of commerce etc. I have a client which is a contractors association which is the collective bargaining agent for the contractors with a construction union.

The CBA is the only mechanism fot the owners to avoid antitrust laws regarding drafts, and other issues among the owners.

The biggest risk the owners in the NHL face is being out bid for players by other owners, really, the Wild is throwing tons of $ at players and complaining that the CBA is terrible. SHEESH!

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Apparently Donald fehr is denying any offer was made about the make whole portion.

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He's denying that there was a formal offer along with the make whole provision, and there wasn't. If you don't know what else is coming along with a 'concession', it doesn't really matter what the concession is.

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The whole make whole "concession" leak to Dreger was B.S. media manipulation by the NHL. I don't put any real stock into it. I do put stock in the fact that the NHL is playing games to try and get a resolution (favorable of course) done. I think it's a good sign. I do think the lockout is ending within a month.

Basically I think the NHL saw how the NBA locked out, missed 10-20% of the season and no one cared in the end, and decided to do the same. The plan was to make the players sweat with lost game checks for a month or two and try to extort as large a percentage of HRR% possible from them. Fehr hasn't flinched beyond accepting 57% as unsustainable. That seems to be Fehr's strategy, just not move unless necessary, it will work if the NHL really doesn't want to miss games. They seem this lockout (opposed to last lockout) to not want to miss games.

At least I really hope that's what's going on. Seems to make sense.

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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Pierre LeBrun reported last night that Daly and Steve Fehr will be meeting today at an undisclosed location to continue talks. Hopefully, this is the start of the end of the lockout. It needs to be.

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The whole make whole "concession" leak to Dreger was B.S. media manipulation by the NHL. I don't put any real stock into it. I do put stock in the fact that the NHL is playing games to try and get a resolution (favorable of course) done. I think it's a good sign. I do think the lockout is ending within a month.

Basically I think the NHL saw how the NBA locked out, missed 10-20% of the season and no one cared in the end, and decided to do the same. The plan was to make the players sweat with lost game checks for a month or two and try to extort as large a percentage of HRR% possible from them. Fehr hasn't flinched beyond accepting 57% as unsustainable. That seems to be Fehr's strategy, just not move unless necessary, it will work if the NHL really doesn't want to miss games. They seem this lockout (opposed to last lockout) to not want to miss games.

At least I really hope that's what's going on. Seems to make sense.

I think he's flinched more than that - he's willing to go to 50/50 if the NHL hits certain revenue thresholds. What's interesting is that this is the opposite of how the old plan was set up - the NHLPA got a higher % of money based on higher revenues. That is, in retrospect, a horrible decision, but I honestly think the NHL way miscalculated how much they would suffer from the lockout - they didn't think they would hit that 57% threshold, but I think they hit it by 2007-08. Still, that setup makes no sense, as it places a heavier burden on teams that are likely revenue laggards. So I'm hoping they can agree to something where the players revenue share decreases as revenue increases, although of course the NHL kinda slashed and burned the idea of growth by canceling the Winter Classic. It is interesting how counter-intuitive the idea of increased revenue enabling a lower players share, but it makes it incumbent on the owners to generate as much revenue as possible and attempts to keep the players' current contracts as is.

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The meeting between Daly and S. Fehr has been going on for 9 hours now.

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The meeting between Daly and S. Fehr has been going on for 9 hours now.

Wow really? Where did you see that reported?

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Wow really? Where did you see that reported?

Started around 3-4pm

These tweets were in the last hour.

Rob Rossi ‏@RobRossi_Trib

As of 5 mins ago I was told #NHL #nhlpa meeting was still going.

Aaron Ward‏@aaronward_nhl

According to source, CBA meetings still taking place at this hour. #TSN

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Well that's good, hopefully we get something constructive out of this

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Good news. Unofficial, no big "here come the NHL on their way to the meeting" covered by 10 news outlets. Might be making progress, especially considering the "Make Whole"-bit owners seem to accept modifying.

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meh. At one time I was a big baseball fan. Now I couldnt tell you who won the WS last year. Only remember this year's because it just happened. Havent watched a game in years. Hate to think I may one day feel the same about the NHL.

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I hope this is the beginning to the end for the sake of our sport, on another off subject I hope and pray all my fellow Devils fans and all familys effected by the catastrophe in the North East will be ok I moved away temporarily 7 yrs ago and lost my apt to Wilma in South Fl but to see what has happened to the state I love and the tri state area my thoughts and prayers are with you all stay warm and stay strong!

Sincerely Devs1965

Edited by Devs1965

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meh. At one time I was a big baseball fan. Now I couldnt tell you who won the WS last year. Only remember this year's because it just happened. Havent watched a game in years. Hate to think I may one day feel the same about the NHL.

Sadly, I am getting to that point. I am going to find it hard to feel that same passion for a while, and I never though I would say that. I feel a lot of anger towards both sides right now, even though I feel that the players are "right". Some of it is that Gary Bettman and Donald Fehr are about as unlikable as they come, but I am tired of the whole "the fans will just come back no matter what we do" attitude. I'm so tired of having to get to this point...you would think, just once, there would be some kind of collective learning experience, where these clowns would just wake the fvck up and say, "you know, we've got a nice pot of gold here, let's do what we have to do to make sure another 2004-05 mess, or anything like it, happens again." It's very simplistic for sure, but quite simply, I've had enough.

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Sadly, I am getting to that point. I am going to find it hard to feel that same passion for a while, and I never though I would say that. I feel a lot of anger towards both sides right now, even though I feel that the players are "right". Some of it is that Gary Bettman and Donald Fehr are about as unlikable as they come, but I am tired of the whole "the fans will just come back no matter what we do" attitude. I'm so tired of having to get to this point...you would think, just once, there would be some kind of collective learning experience, where these clowns would just wake the fvck up and say, "you know, we've got a nice pot of gold here, let's do what we have to do to make sure another 2004-05 mess, or anything like it, happens again." It's very simplistic for sure, but quite simply, I've had enough.

The owners don't think that, they are just trying to make the players (and by extension, you) think that they do. But it is a shame that they feel the need to deny us NHL hockey as a bargaining strategy.

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The owners don't think that, they are just trying to make the players (and by extension, you) think that they do. But it is a shame that they feel the need to deny us NHL hockey as a bargaining strategy.

And that's really my point. You've already got one season is the books that was chopped down to 48 games, and another with a big fat zero. This one at the very least will be significantly truncated. I know that the lengths of seasons have always fluctuated throughout the history of the NHL...since I've been watching we've had 80 games, 84 games, 82 games, so it's not like 82 is some sacred number by which all seasons should be measured...but I just feel like the league starts to lose some integrity the absence of an entire season and the lopping off of a number of games in two more seasons over a relatively short time frame.

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After reading various twitter feeds and reading a bit between the lines, I am cautiously optomistic today.

I could be totally wrong though.

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I wasn't optimistic until I saw that Clarkson and Enstrom both left their teams for "personal reasons". Maybe I'm reading too much into it

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