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Lockout 2012-2013 (Hockey's back!)

   130 members have voted

  1. 1. When will we see hockey?

    • Oct 12
      10
    • Nov 12
      19
    • Dec 12
      26
    • Jan 13
      33
    • Feb 13
      1
    • Mar 13
      0
    • Apr 13
      0
    • Oct 13
      14
    • Never
      27

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1,718 posts in this topic

Not really related but just met Daly at Belissimos in Little Falls. Tried to make conversation, not at interested in talking about it...

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Not really related but just met Daly at Belissimos in Little Falls. Tried to make conversation, not at interested in talking about it...

Can't blame him.

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A third party mediating? That is a very much needed step in my opinion. Either side can't even agree on the basic points of their negotiations.

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Mediation is good but it appears to be non binding so it may be useless as well. My hope would just be the mediator is able to get the 2 sides face to face more often.

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This whole process is so frustrating, I'd like to put them all in a cage and last 1 standing wins, another lost season and I might start to thin of the NHl like i do baseball, which basically means not at all....

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Good. With a mediator in place, maybe they can agree on what kind of lunch they'd like to order in slightly less than 6 hours.

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Not to ruin any optimism, but they brought in mediators back in '04-05. Multiple times, IIRC.

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Not to ruin any optimism, but they brought in mediators back in '04-05. Multiple times, IIRC.

You are correct, but it was much later in the process.

Even so, mediators won't help here. What's there to mediate when one side refuses to compromise in any way?

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'04-05 they were much further apart philosophically and otherwise. And I believe the first time they broached mediation was just days before the season ended, wtf was it going to do then? At least now they have time to let the process run its course.

You are correct, but it was much later in the process.

Even so, mediators won't help here. What's there to mediate when one side refuses to compromise in any way?

lol at maintaining it's 'one' side that refuses to compromise. When the PA comes up with a fully linked 50-50 system then I'll buy that comment. All they did last week was try to package a favorable proposal differently.

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lol at maintaining it's 'one' side that refuses to compromise. When the PA comes up with a fully linked 50-50 system then I'll buy that comment. All they did last week was try to package a favorable proposal differently.

Nothing like buying the league's drivel hook line and sinker. Why is 50-50 fair, and why should the system be fully linked, and why should the PA have to make a full offer that the league accepts? It's called a negotiation. If the league doesn't like something in the PA's offers, it should counter. Instead it runs out of the room telling anyone who will listen that Fehr doesn't represent the players' interests, that he refuses to negotiate, and people believe it.

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Nothing like buying the league's drivel hook line and sinker. Why is 50-50 fair, and why should the system be fully linked, and why should the PA have to make a full offer that the league accepts? It's called a negotiation. If the league doesn't like something in the PA's offers, it should counter. Instead it runs out of the room telling anyone who will listen that Fehr doesn't represent the players' interests, that he refuses to negotiate, and people believe it.

Isn't that how negotiations started? League gave offer, players refused it, say NHL is being unfair, no nhlpa counter.

Then we wait a couple weeks and owners make another offer since players refuse. Nhlpa comes back with 3 bare bones offers, addressing almost nothing the owners had touched on, and the players hadn't even taken the time to run numbers on.

Sounds like you've bought the nhlpa "drivel" that they're working hard against an unfair partner.

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Nothing like buying the league's drivel hook line and sinker. Why is 50-50 fair, and why should the system be fully linked, and why should the PA have to make a full offer that the league accepts? It's called a negotiation. If the league doesn't like something in the PA's offers, it should counter. Instead it runs out of the room telling anyone who will listen that Fehr doesn't represent the players' interests, that he refuses to negotiate, and people believe it.

And you're buying the PA spin because you're ridiculously pro-player. I never used the word 'fair' in my last post, all I said was that neither side has compromised at all and neither has, they only both claim they have.

The players haven't moved off de-linkage - which is a waste of time anyway since the last lockout was entirely about cost certainty, the owners aren't giving up linkage. The owners haven't moved off contract lengths. Neither side has really moved on HRR although the players' 50-50 non-linked offer was clever PR and looked a lot better than it really was, especially with the guarantee that the players would never lose money.

The owners demonize Fehr and the players destroy Bettman. Both sides are guilty of the same tactics and yet you only pound on one. It's just like politics really, where each side only sees the other's flaws and not that their side does the same thing.

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Isn't that how negotiations started? League gave offer, players refused it, say NHL is being unfair, no nhlpa counter.

Then we wait a couple weeks and owners make another offer since players refuse. Nhlpa comes back with 3 bare bones offers, addressing almost nothing the owners had touched on, and the players hadn't even taken the time to run numbers on.

Sounds like you've bought the nhlpa "drivel" that they're working hard against an unfair partner.

The NHLPA is in the difficult position of negotiating against the league, knowing full well that any concession they make in any offer will be included, or increased, in subsequent league offers. I agree that the 3 offers thing was not a great move, but the NHLPA knows the NHL's position from watching the NBA and the NFL go through this last year, so they understand how it works - the league gives very little in concessions and tries to wait the players out, while accusing them of not negotiating and risking the season. NBA and NFL players won some concessions but not really any significant financial ones. The NHLPA has not been forthright about full offers because it understands that the NHL only wants a deal in early November if it's completely on their terms. And that, on its face, is ridiculous.

The NHL has to pretend it doesn't have all the power to get a deal done.

4978: Just stop posting if you think both sides haven't moved on HRR. They've moved a ton, although much of the league's movement has been a fiction based off their absurd first offer.

Edited by Triumph

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4978: Just stop posting if you think both sides haven't moved on HRR. They've moved a ton, although much of the league's movement has been a fiction based off their absurd first offer.

The 57-43 first offer and the owners walking out of last week's meeting inside an hour were their two biggest PR blunders by far. Even they knew 57-43 the other way was a fantasy. 50-50 wasn't so much a compromise on their part as it was coming back to reality (not to mention their best PR move to date), at least on that issue...though it's still a net gain for them so I wouldn't characterize it as them moving. But the players haven't come anywhere near a real 50-50 yet either. On paper they've moved a little, but whether they've actually moved is debatable because of the whole de-linked thing.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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The 57-43 first offer and the owners walking out of last week's meeting inside an hour were their two biggest PR blunders by far. Even they knew 57-43 the other way was a fantasy. 50-50 wasn't so much a compromise on their part as it was coming back to reality, at least on that issue...though it's still a net gain for them so I wouldn't characterize it as them moving. But the players haven't come anywhere near a real 50-50 yet either. On paper they've moved a little, but whether they've actually moved is debatable because of the whole de-linked thing.

You're just not reading the right people, it seems.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/the-nhlpa-proposal-by-the-numbers/article5530468/

Yes, of course that won't be a final offer, but the NHL could negotiate off it. Now they're just hiring mediators so they can have sham negotiations for the next week until the December 5th BoG meeting - that's when the temperature will really be taken and we'll see if the NHL wants a season. I still think they do, but they're doing a good job of pretending they don't care either way.

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Apparently the mediator assigned to this case was removed due to problems with his twitter. Cant make this stuff up, :doh1:

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NOW they try mediation? November 27, after countless games have been cancelled. Brilliant.

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if its nonbinding then its useless, I'm so sick of this crap!!

I want my frickin HOCKEY!!

It may prove not to result in a deal, but mediation can be helpful so long as both sides are interested in an agreement, rather than making a statement. It proved helpful ending the MLB strike.

Having an objective voice in the room is a positive step.

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Gotta give the players credit for sticking together here. The third and fourth line guys, you know the guys who will only play the NHL average of 3 seasons. They show tremendous character to stick together with the Ovechkins, and Crosbys of the league. Sacrificing probably 1/3 of what they will ever make for a cause they won't benefit from. Heard an interesting stat on NHL Radio. 240 members of the 2004-05 players association never played another NHL game when the NHL finally returned. That is nearly 1/3 of the Players Association. Solidarity amongst the guys who are about to suffer that same fate is mind boggling.

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Gotta give the players credit for sticking together here. The third and fourth line guys, you know the guys who will only play the NHL average of 3 seasons. They show tremendous character to stick together with the Ovechkins, and Crosbys of the league. Sacrificing probably 1/3 of what they will ever make for a cause they won't benefit from. Heard an interesting stat on NHL Radio. 240 members of the 2004-05 players association never played another NHL game when the NHL finally returned. That is nearly 1/3 of the Players Association. Solidarity amongst the guys who are about to suffer that same fate is mind boggling.

This stat drives me up a wall, and Bruce McCurdy did a great job explaining why: http://blogs.edmonto...of-nhl-careers/

Guys at the bottom of the totem pole understand their place - obviously someone like Stephen Gionta should be livid about this lockout. But there aren't enough of them and the agreement's not for them and they know that. Making noise about the lockout now is a good way to get teammates angry at you, and guys at the fringes realize that that stuff counts when it comes to making the roster.

Edited by Triumph

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