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Lockout 2012-2013 (Hockey's back!)

   130 votes

  1. 1. When will we see hockey?

    • Oct 12
      10
    • Nov 12
      19
    • Dec 12
      26
    • Jan 13
      33
    • Feb 13
      1
    • Mar 13
      0
    • Apr 13
      0
    • Oct 13
      14
    • Never
      27

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1,718 posts in this topic

The NHL didn't want mediators um...five days ago? How have things changed in the last five days unless they've 'already' had secret meetings we don't know about. I fear this is just another PR stunt/dog and pony show.

The time for PR stunts is over. It ended on Thursday. It's brass tacks time and they're using the mediators - how have things changed? The NHL stopped lying to the media (i.e. talking to the media)

I know I've been wrong before but I really feel an agreement in principle by Monday. They are so goddamn close.

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The time for PR stunts is over. It ended on Thursday. It's brass tacks time and they're using the mediators - how have things changed? The NHL stopped lying to the media (i.e. talking to the media)

I know I've been wrong before but I really feel an agreement in principle by Monday. They are so goddamn close.

It makes too much sense to have this settled before Christmas and start on New Year's...but I don't trust the league ever to do anything that makes sense. I do think Bettman wants to start on the 31st or New Year's Day but I'm not sure Fehr and the hardline owners will play along with the script. Especially since Fehr has a history of last-minute negotiating, same as Bettman...and the last minute isn't going to be until early-mid January.

Plus the bad blood on both sides is real, I can't trust ego won't get in the way of an agreement until I actually see them get an agreement.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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I was looking around online to get some ice hockey equipment, and noticed that sportsauthority does NOT have anything NHL listed on their site, not even an NHL category... Thought this was funny. Still over priced for hockey equipment anyways.

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According to Aaron Portzline the NHL is meeting with the mediators so that when the NHLPA decertifies they can prove that they negotiated in good faith.

This was posted at HF.

Edited by Jas0nMacIsaac

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Thats kind of scary, that means they had attempted to make that basis last week too. I hope it isn't just a glaring failure point from the NHLPA that makes the NHL harden even more.

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According to Aaron Portzline the NHL is meeting with the mediators so that when the NHLPA decertifies they can prove that they negotiated in good faith.

This was posted at HF.

Someone else already said that wasn't true, he was just retweeting an opinion by one of his followers. This is what passes for journalism during this lockout :P

I mean, I wouldn't put that past either side but that guy doesn't know it for a fact.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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I'm not buying it. If the NHLPA wanted to decertify or disclaim interest they would've/should've done so weeks ago.

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Triumph although i do not agree with everything you say when it comes to which side is right or wrong, i definitely respect what you say. I think we have had the same mind set when it comes to when this lockout ends. Ive been saying for month now that january 1st is going to be the start up date and i think you think the same thing as well. Im curious if you think these negotiations are the ones that ultimately ends the lockout a week or so from now. In my opinion the time to get something done is now, but i dont know if this mediation with the leaders from both sides is the way to get a deal done. I think the owners-players meeting is where we will get progress. What do u think?

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This is a good read and makes me laugh an especially loud laugh at Minnesota (although we'd be affected with Kovy as well). But nonetheless, Minnesota is gonna get fvcked hard if existing long-term contracts are targeted, and it makes me ROFL. http://m.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/mirtle-nhls-new-cba-likely-to-target-existing-long-term-deals/article6251627/?service=mobile

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This is a good read and makes me laugh an especially loud laugh at Minnesota (although we'd be affected with Kovy as well). But nonetheless, Minnesota is gonna get fvcked hard if existing long-term contracts are targeted, and it makes me ROFL. http://m.theglobeand...?service=mobile

Why laugh? Will this really hurt the Devils in 10 years or whenever that Kovy decides to retire or go back to Russia?

Edited by devilsrule33

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Triumph although i do not agree with everything you say when it comes to which side is right or wrong, i definitely respect what you say. I think we have had the same mind set when it comes to when this lockout ends. Ive been saying for month now that january 1st is going to be the start up date and i think you think the same thing as well. Im curious if you think these negotiations are the ones that ultimately ends the lockout a week or so from now. In my opinion the time to get something done is now, but i dont know if this mediation with the leaders from both sides is the way to get a deal done. I think the owners-players meeting is where we will get progress. What do u think?

Appreciate the respect, and it's mutual, but I don't think the owners help. I think what Kevin Westgarth said about them is accurate - they are not informed. Because ultimately for many of them, it isn't their livelihood. They own other things. They've got their fingers in a million different pies. Rumor has been all along that the players are more informed than either the GMs or owners because they just figure Bettman has their back and the lights will be turned back on when they get turned on. So, no, I don't think having the owners back will help, unless they know the issues and can speak about them intelligently. This has gone on longer than I thought, and maybe longer than the NHL thought, but we're really reaching the end game here, I think - the NHL didn't take its ball and go home like it has the last few times it stopped talks. It didn't propose any two-week moratorium. They're back talking now.

This is a good read and makes me laugh an especially loud laugh at Minnesota (although we'd be affected with Kovy as well). But nonetheless, Minnesota is gonna get fvcked hard if existing long-term contracts are targeted, and it makes me ROFL. http://m.theglobeand...?service=mobile

Unless Vanderbeek sells to someone with money I am not at all concerned about this. Even if he doesn't the polarization between rich and poor is going to send the Devils closer to the salary floor than cap.

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Why laugh? Will this really hurt the Devils in 10 years or whenever that Kovy decides to retire or go back to Russia?

. I think it's valid to speculate that Lou held on to the first rounder for a reason- if that's gonna be the rule, we'd be getting punished twice and Lou may plan to fight it. And yeah, you're right- but what Minnesota did pissed me off to no end. What I should've said is while it would suck to have it affect us because of Kovy, I still have to laugh my ass off at Minnesota because of how much they overpaid and the fact that they ipso facto tampered with Parise throughout the whole process. It would be nice to see a little karma there.

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Re: Parise's contract. I forget, what did the Devils offer him? Maybe this would've negatively affected us too had we re-signed him.

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. I think it's valid to speculate that Lou held on to the first rounder for a reason- if that's gonna be the rule, we'd be getting punished twice and Lou may plan to fight it. And yeah, you're right- but what Minnesota did pissed me off to no end. What I should've said is while it would suck to have it affect us because of Kovy, I still have to laugh my ass off at Minnesota because of how much they overpaid and the fact that they ipso facto tampered with Parise throughout the whole process. It would be nice to see a little karma there.

Punished 'three' times really:

A) having the initial contract thrown out

B) being docked the fine and picks because of the initial contract

C) the cap calculation at the end of the deal mitigating any cap benefit from the revised deal

Edited by NJDevs4978

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Re: Parise's contract. I forget, what did the Devils offer him? Maybe this would've negatively affected us too had we re-signed him.

It never came out though rumor was the total years and money were actually very close, but without the ridiculous signing bonuses.

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. I think it's valid to speculate that Lou held on to the first rounder for a reason- if that's gonna be the rule, we'd be getting punished twice and Lou may plan to fight it. And yeah, you're right- but what Minnesota did pissed me off to no end. What I should've said is while it would suck to have it affect us because of Kovy, I still have to laugh my ass off at Minnesota because of how much they overpaid and the fact that they ipso facto tampered with Parise throughout the whole process. It would be nice to see a little karma there.

It's not really a punishment to have those type of contracts fairly accounted for, so it's not an extra punishment.

The Devils were punished for trying to break the rules, and that rule breaking contract doesn't exist, so the current contract has never been punished for anything.

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@RealKyper

#CBA meeting over. No progress. #NHL remains firm on "take it or leave it" last offer to #NHLPA.

HAHA /Nelson

Looks like Fehr has to answer the piper now.

Maybe but this is way too personal on both sides (as is usually the case with Bettman and the NHLPA). That's why I still think there's a chance it goes off the cliff entirely.

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looks like ill be going from watching a crappy jets team to watching an even worse mets team

maybe they'll play next yr

Edited by bobilly45

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Daly: two sides were never in the same room. No plan for more talks

— Rich Chere (@Ledger_NJDevils)

December 12, 2012

"Daly: two sides were never in the same room. No plan for more talks"

#NHL Bill Daly says #NHLPA is going to talk to mediator again tonight and details will be forwarded to NHL. No progress made, no conclusion.

— John Lu (@JohnLuTSNMtl)

December 12, 2012

"#NHL Bill Daly says #NHLPA is going to talk to mediator again tonight and details will be forwarded to NHL. No progress made, no conclusion."

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Maybe but this is way too personal on both sides (as is usually the case with Bettman and the NHLPA). That's why I still think there's a chance it goes off the cliff entirely.

. The time has come for the rank and file to raise hell and put the last proposal to a vote. Enough. These guys have to make their voices heard, or Fehr and the negotiating committee are taking this off the cliff for the players. I invite you guys to read Matthew Barnaby's Twitter for a perspective on what happened 8 years ago and how he wish more guys spoke up. I hope some of the current players heed Barnaby's advice. It's the only way now, it seems.
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. The time has come for the rank and file to raise hell and put the last proposal to a vote. Enough. These guys have to make their voices heard, or Fehr and the negotiating committee are taking this off the cliff for the players. I invite you guys to read Matthew Barnaby's Twitter for a perspective on what happened 8 years ago and how he wish more guys spoke up. I hope some of the current players heed Barnaby's advice. It's the only way now, it seems.

Problem is if they go around Fehr, the union as it were becomes even more of a laughingstock having gone around their leader in two straight CBA's to do a deal, while dumping three union heads in between deals and no respected union boss will ever work with them again. Part of the reason they're blindly following Fehr is because they literally don't have much of a choice.

The players made their own bed though when they let Lindros and company dump Paul Kelly, and then hired Fehr presumably giving him ironclad promises that they wouldn't go around his back anyway.

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Problem is if they go around Fehr, the union as it were becomes even more of a laughingstock having gone around their leader in two straight CBA's to do a deal, while dumping three union heads in between deals and no respected union boss will ever work with them again. Part of the reason they're blindly following Fehr is because they literally don't have much of a choice.

The players made their own bed though when they let Lindros and company dump Paul Kelly, and then hired Fehr presumably giving him ironclad promises that they wouldn't go around his back anyway.

. Fehr always says 'It's their union, they're the players, they're the boss'. Well if the majority decide enough is enough, then Fehr should allow a vote then, even if he doesn't advise it. Because in the end, it's the PLAYERS' UNION, right? Unless the NHLPA gave Fehr total control and authority over the entire union, the will of the majority of the membership is what should speak the loudest.

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If the players sign off on this owner's deal they have nothing left to bargain for next time around. They're better off starting their own league...

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If the players sign off on this owner's deal they have nothing left to bargain for next time around. They're better off starting their own league...

Hear some people saying this, it's a shame the owners control all the major arenas, otherwise it'd be a viable idea.

. The time has come for the rank and file to raise hell and put the last proposal to a vote. Enough. These guys have to make their voices heard, or Fehr and the negotiating committee are taking this off the cliff for the players. I invite you guys to read Matthew Barnaby's Twitter for a perspective on what happened 8 years ago and how he wish more guys spoke up. I hope some of the current players heed Barnaby's advice. It's the only way now, it seems.

The rank and file are always in favor of a deal. Always. If it were up to them, NHL players would be getting 43% of revenue. And then during the next lockout, they'd be cut down to 36%. And so on and so on.

I agree more people should have spoken up last time, but that is because Goodenow's union was run like a cabal with only veteran players at the top, and information simply did not flow from there to the union.

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