Dead

Lockout 2012-2013 (Hockey's back!)

   130 votes

  1. 1. When will we see hockey?

    • Oct 12
      10
    • Nov 12
      19
    • Dec 12
      26
    • Jan 13
      33
    • Feb 13
      1
    • Mar 13
      0
    • Apr 13
      0
    • Oct 13
      14
    • Never
      27

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1,718 posts in this topic

Well they're back together.. Is it too much to hope for a resolution tonight?
. Probably.

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@L_A_theRiver

"From what I've heard this evening, there's more hype than true reason for optimism in NHLvsNHLPA discussions. Decertification still possible"

@Real_ESPNLeBrun

"Hearing both sides disappointed with lack of true movement in each other's new positions today... Key is to keep talking though.."

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Was killing time and went to Barnes and Noble for the first time in years for some coffee and grabbed a hockey news magazine. Damn, that made me miss the games so much. I hope they can get something done already.

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Well, it's midnight.

Was interest disclaimed?

They probably won't rush to tell the media so I wouldn't wait up for an announcement or keep on twitter if you have to get to bed.

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They wouldn't still be meeting if they had DOI'ed the season away. It was always a player-hyped artificial deadline anyway.

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According to TG, the meeting is over. Fehr said they moved closer on some issues but still have a ways to go on others. They have had a mediator with them all day, and he has requested both sides to be back at 10AM. Dreger says the players did not file the disclaimer of interest, but will if a deal isn't reached soon.

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Well I'd say, overall, today is a positive. Made some progress, at least

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They wouldn't still be meeting if they had DOI'ed the season away. It was always a player-hyped artificial deadline anyway.

A disclaimer of interest would not end the season. And they can still do it.

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A disclaimer of interest would not end the season. And they can still do it.

If they were going to do it they should have done it earlier, the way the NBAPA did, and not challenge a deadline that may or may not be artificial. Even if they believe Jan. 11 isn't a 'real' drop dead date, challenging it so blatantly like a DOI would is a reckless gamble. And if it is a false date and they get called on it, it's the dumbest gambit ever by the NHL, because there's no reason to ever believe another drop-dead date after it - that's why I don't believe they'd fake it. It's too detrimental to the process if they do and get called on it.

The fact the PA hasn't DOI'ed this late leads me to believe they aren't going to do it anyway, that they'd rather preserve their option to outright decertify if the season does get canceled. They wouldn't win a DOI in court regardless, not with all the public posturing about it.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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how can they be still far apart after ALL THAT TIME negotiating it's ridiculous

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If they were going to do it they should have done it earlier, the way the NBAPA did, and not challenge a deadline that may or may not be artificial. Even if they believe Jan. 11 isn't a 'real' drop dead date, challenging it so blatantly like a DOI would is a reckless gamble. And if it is a false date and they get called on it, it's the dumbest gambit ever by the NHL, because there's no reason to ever believe another drop-dead date after it - that's why I don't believe they'd fake it. It's too detrimental to the process if they do and get called on it.

It's absolutely a false date. I wouldn't hesitate at all to challenge it if I thought the NHL had much more left in it, but I don't think the NHL is going to bend significantly even after it goes past that date.

The fact the PA hasn't DOI'ed this late leads me to believe they aren't going to do it anyway, that they'd rather preserve their option to outright decertify if the season does get canceled. They wouldn't win a DOI in court regardless, not with all the public posturing about it.

Fehr has mentioned absolutely nothing about a disclaimer of interest. Bettman claims the union has never mentioned it in negotiations. I see no reason why it isn't valid.

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There was once a dream that was NHL hockey. You could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it would vanish... it was so fragile. And I fear that it will not survive the winter.--Maximus Aurelius

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Well I think both parties reailze what they are up against is the money they will lose the longer this goes on. Regardless what the actual "drop dead" date is you still only have so much time to have a legitimate 52,48,42 game season and every game lost is revenue lost for both sides.

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so they are voting again for the disclaimer? thats ridiculous godamnit stop those fvcking chicken games and just get something done bunch of retards

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so they are voting again for the disclaimer? thats ridiculous godamnit stop those fvcking chicken games and just get something done bunch of retards

It's not ridiculous, according to reports coming out now, the tone of the NHL totally changed after the deadline.

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That has to be very disturbing to the PA. I'd imagine the fool me once proverb is going to make them go full speed ahead with the new Disclaimer of interest and call the NHLs Jan 11th bluff.

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Were I part of the union, I wouldn't be upset that the league tried to change the rules for penalties for poor reporting of HRR last night (assuming that Dreger the water carrier is being told the truth) - I'd be concerned that they would try to change them at all.

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Darren Dreger@DarrenDreger

League source says all "changes" to Article 50 were highlighted and flagged and the union has had docs for a week.

Yeah just another attempt by Fehr and the hard-liners to whip up negativity toward the league, and by god it's working. I mean it was beyond dumb of the league to do 'two' different bait and switches (the pension and now this) too, but I'm more convinced than ever Fehr doesn't want a deal considering the way this was handled.

Both sides can't resist going deeper and deeper into the mud :rolleyes: There needs to be a total cleansing of Bettman and the PA leadership after this. I don't care if the CBA's five years if they get new leadership on both sides, but if they have an 8-10 year CBA and it's still Bettman-Fehr it's going to be more of the same next time, or worse.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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That has to be very disturbing to the PA. I'd imagine the fool me once proverb is going to make them go full speed ahead with the new Disclaimer of interest and call the NHLs Jan 11th bluff.

If it's even true the league 'changed its tone' after the decert deadline. I'm still skeptical about that being anything more than another PR move to rally the union in collective disdain for the league, I mean they met for less an hour after that and that was it. There were no meetings of any substance today, other than smaller groups on HRR and pensions.

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If it's a 10 year CBA, Bettman will be 70 during the next negotiation, and Fehr will be 74. I wouldn't be surprised if Fehr stepped down in 1-2 years anyway, so long as he had a worthy successor picked out. Bettman's already been rumored to be in ill health, I doubt he'll make it to the next CBA as commissioner either.

And yes 4978, I'm sure that the league knows nothing about leverage and is still continuing to negotiate in good faith. PS, Dreger reported that the union gave Fehr full authority to disclaim last night and he didn't do it.

Edited by Triumph

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It ain't getting to ten with this group, someone's opting out. There's just too many hardliners and ill will on both sides.

I've never heard that about Bettman, but I think it'll wind up being a 7-8 year CBA and he'll only be as old as Stern was last year when he had his last labor war. Don won't be running the union outright but he'll no doubt be a shadow advisor to Steve the way Marvin Miller was for him.

What leverage...you said yourself the DOI was a phony deadline and they could do it anytime. They must be having these sham votes to look good for court since they don't actually need to vote on DOI, but they're not going to win in court. Not after two months of players tweeting about disclaimer, Fehr's own cryptic comments about 'how other labor negotiations have gone' when asked about DOI/decert after the early December blowup, and the fact they're DOI'ing right at the deadline. Yeah that's real genuine and not a negotiating tactic lol...especially when it's done a few days right after it isn't done.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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