TheRedStorm Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 (edited) How is this a stubborn attitude? The tickets are free and someone claimed them to make a profit getting in the way of someone who could've claimed them that wanted to go for free and enjoy the event. The tickets themselves even say "Not for resale", so the ticket license is being violated. Its actually a crime in New Jersey for a "season ticket holder to sell a ticket to any event held in the state for more than 50% above the price the broker or season ticket holder paid" This is on the books, but it's merely a deterant/threat more then enforcement. It's clearly aimed at people's ethics, but since they can't prosecute anyone on just ethics alone, they go this route trying to tie it in with profiteering against a league or team. It's yet another example of laws in our society that's aimed at something direct that's impossible to enforce on it's own but then disguised under a jurisdiction making it a waste of taxpayer money and resources. Not to mention difficult to police and often murky to enforce on a state by state basis. They know this and you know this which is why you don't see every broker and STH shut down. Edited June 22, 2013 by TheRedStorm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 (edited) This is on the books, but it's merely a deterant/threat more then enforcement. It's clearly aimed at people's ethics, but since they can't prosecute anyone on just ethics alone, they go this route trying to tie it in with profiteering against a league or team. It's yet another example of laws in our society that's aimed at something directly but disguised under a jusdiction making it a waste of taxpayer money and resources. Not to mention difficult to police and often murky to enforce on a state by state basis. They know this and you know this which is why you don't see every broker and STH shut down. But we're not talking about tickets that STH's have contracted from the team that have a definitive value. A ticket is a license and the draft tickets are distinct in their definition of "not for resale". There is no monetary value legally so there is no basis for 50% because the value is $0 for the draft tickets. The majority of regular game sales don't break the law either. 50% above of say a club seat is $125 so you can sell a pair of them for $750 legally and the majority of people buying game tickets don't care if they pay more. Then you have the issue of state lines which makes ticket sales extremely murky. Brokers are even murkier because they can have the website hosted in Guyana or some other far flung place and the payments processed in Canada. In terms of a person to person sale, its much stricter when it comes to mark ups because it could be a guy from Toms River selling to a guy in Cherry Hill and its much easier to file and take it that far if someone felt slighted to that extent. The majority people arent going to do it for $50, but $400? Absolutely possible. The majority of the draft tickets are being acquired and resold in NJ. The laws here are legitimately the strictest in the country and if someone felt slighted and wanted to prove a point and take the seller to court, the defendant would not have much of a leg to stand on. Tickets that have a legal value of $0 have no markup allowance at all. Edited June 22, 2013 by ghdi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRedStorm Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 But we're not talking about tickets that STH's have contracted from the team that have a definitive value. A ticket is a license and the draft tickets are distinct in their definition of "not for resale". There is no monetary value legally so there is no basis for 50% because the value is $0. The majority of regular game sales don't break the law either. 50% above of say a club seat is $125 so you can sell a pair of them for $750 legally and the majority of people buying game tickets don't care if they pay more. Then you have the issue of state lines which makes ticket sales extremely murky. Brokers are even murkier because they can have the website hosted in Guyana or some other far flung place and the payments processed in Canada. In terms of a person to person sale, its much stricter when it comes to mark ups because it could be a guy from Toms River selling to a guy in Cherry Hill and its much easier to file and take it that far if someone felt slighted to that extent. The majority people arent going to do it for $50, but $400? Absolutely possible. The majority of the draft tickets are being acquired and resold in NJ. The laws here are legitimately the strictest in the country and if someone felt slighted and wanted to prove a point and take the seller to court, the defendant would not have much of a leg to stand on. While i can agree on alot of what you say above, the Devils are not going to enforce this policy, either. It's a deterant/threat same as the state law. The time and effort to go after individual STH requires manpower and time. Not to mention revoking accounts and the team losing $ from the "big fish" like club and suite holders. When you're the Devils, you don't go around revoking STH accounts. While i can agree it's within reason to question the ethics of it all, it's really spitting in the wind. One thing about taking someone to court over this. While it's certainly an option, the cost to do so is not worth it. You'd be doing it to prove a point that will cost you much more then the ticket and if you've got that kind of money to go this route then you probably 1) wouldn't be buying the ticket and caring about someones profits or laws or 2) affording to be a STH in the first place and not worrying about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 (edited) While i can agree on alot of what you say above, the Devils are not going to enforce this policy, either. It's a deterant/threat same as the state law. The time and effort to go after individual STH requires manpower and time. Not to mention revoking accounts and the team losing $ from the "big fish" like club and suite holders. When you're the Devils, you don't go around revoking STH accounts. While i can agree it's within reason to question the ethics of it all, it's really spitting in the wind. One thing about taking someone to court over this. While it's certainly an option, the cost to do so is not worth it. You'd be doing it to prove a point that will cost you much more then the ticket and if you've got that kind of money to go this route then you probably 1) wouldn't be buying the ticket and caring about someones profits or laws or 2) affording to be a STH in the first place and not worrying about it. Once the Devils release the tickets, they're not liable for what any single person does w/ that ticket and obviously they're not going to go after a paying customer unless that customer is doing something that directly harms the team like counterfeiting the tickets and selling them multiple times. The Devils are out of the picture once the tickets are released. Let me give you an example. John has 4 tickets to the draft and is selling them for $100 a piece. There are sales right now that this is the exact cost. Barry goes and buys these 4 tickets not knowing what they're really worth or what the draft is about and just wants to go because its a rare event and he wants to experience it with his friends. They go and have a miserable time. Barry then calls the lawyer in the phone book advertising "pay nothing unless you win". He takes John to court and John has no defense. He sold the tickets knowing they had a stated "no resale value". This case is going to be over in 10 minutes. John will owe $400 AND the court fees. Then Barry's lawyer is going to take a portion of that $400, but Barry is not going to come away empty handed. Your claim about court is not feasible unless the value is at a certain level. A $400 small claim is going to reap a return. The higher the price paid, the more of a chance that is to happen and a $400 small claim in NJ is certainly going to bring a take home reward for the plaintiff. The defendent will be saddled with the court costs and sometimes even the lawyer's fees if the "rip off" is egregious enough. It's pretty much gotta get past $200 for it to mean anything, but some of these draft ticket sales could potentially bring that down on the seller. I'm not talking about the guy selling a pair of tickets for $50 bucks. The only reason the law and court crap was brought up was the fleecers are potentially going to lose money if they get a customer who feels slighted and the draft is absolutely an event where some people will feel they did not get their money's worth if they paid a relatively high amount for what are legally free tickets. The STH contract does not place a value on the draft tickets. They're complimentary and a gift for joining that group. Edited June 22, 2013 by ghdi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefiestygoat Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Something I like about the way the Devils did this, it almost assures that these tickets are going to Devils fans. Fill the building with our own, it's better that way. As I said before, I think the Devils did the best they could given a tough situation so I don't have any complaints. Though I will say it is frustrating to see Rangers and Flyers fans tweeting about how they won tickets when a lot of Devils fans are shutout. In fairness to them though, this is a NHL event, not Devils, and I'm sure I'd be trying to do the same if the situation was reversed. Still holding out hope I can win from a few more contests that are out there or find some tickets that aren't priced too high but if I have to wait another year to attend a draft, so be it. I'm sure getting tickets to next year's draft will be a lot easier with it split between 2 days. If I don't get in this year, I'll be obsessively posting info on the new Devils prospects here instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 As I said before, I think the Devils did the best they could given a tough situation so I don't have any complaints. Though I will say it is frustrating to see Rangers and Flyers fans tweeting about how they won tickets when a lot of Devils fans are shutout. In fairness to them though, this is a NHL event, not Devils, and I'm sure I'd be trying to do the same if the situation was reversed. Still holding out hope I can win from a few more contests that are out there or find some tickets that aren't priced too high but if I have to wait another year to attend a draft, so be it. I'm sure getting tickets to next year's draft will be a lot easier with it split between 2 days. If I don't get in this year, I'll be obsessively posting info on the new Devils prospects here instead. I want to be positive about this espc b/c I have a ticket, but I don't think they did the best they could have here. I think there's at least one way this could've been made a lot better and fair for everyone involved. The only I think they could do that is by having the draft tickets as an incentive, not a guarantee. What I mean by this, is the Devils could've provided a choice to the STH's. They could perhaps have provided a piece of exclusive merchandise, or a choice of tickets to a selection of concerts in a specific seating area purchased by the team, or something like an exclusive meet and greet for those that chose not to take draft tickets. This way, only the STH's who really want to go to the draft are given tickets and not a large majority of them just click yes whether they intend to go or not and would help alleviate some of the people who got max amount of tickets with the foresight that they were not going to go in the first place. This ups the amount of tickets available to the rest of the people who want to go and provides an alternative for the fan who is not really interested in the draft. As crappy as it feels to say, other teams fans have as much of a right to attend as anyone outside of an STH. Its a chance to showcase the building and franchise to other teams fans who may have never been to the Rock before. I think my idea above would have been a much better way to take care of the STHs that want to attend the draft and gives a choice to the ones who may not be all that hype about it something of equal value or at the very least something they can appreciate more. Had they placed a little more value on the draft tickets themselves, I think we wouldnt be seeing some of the backlash that has been seen. No matter what, some would be left out because of the limitations in seating and the fact its only one day, but providing STH's with a choice of Draft Tickets or this or that or whatever, would've been a much fairer way of hosting this event for the audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Yeah I agree. Scott Reynolds' series keeps trucking along, if you're not reading these before you attend the draft, you'll have time to read them during, I suppose. http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/21/4447354/robert-hagg-draft-comparables - Hagg was reported to have gone to NJ to do draft questioning, etc. - seems like a good pick for the 2nd round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldply123 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Hagg does seem like a possibility. He might be in the conversation though the end of the 1st for some teams. Anybody know if there will be some way to catch a replay of the 1st round in terms of TV coverage after next Sunday? I'll be away next Sunday but I probably will want to watch once I get back what took place up to our pick in terms of real-time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Hagg does seem like a possibility. He might be in the conversation though the end of the 1st for some teams. Anybody know if there will be some way to catch a replay of the 1st round in terms of TV coverage after next Sunday? I'll be away next Sunday but I probably will want to watch once I get back what took place up to our pick in terms of real-time. Barring a TV rating, you could go on you tube and play through all of the picks. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldply123 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Barring a TV rating, you could go on you tube and play through all of the picks. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD True. I imagine TSN.ca might have something or even NHL.com. Part of me wants to actually hear Pierre flip out about each pick ranting and raving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck the Duck Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I totally agree with you here. Its up to each person to decide what they value this event. I totally side with the STH's in that they should have priority over everyone after the attendees and their families. However, the majority of "public" sales of these tickets are in the realm of stupid right now and its going to prevent people who really want a chance to attend it not to because of an exorbitant fee that an STH feels they're entitled to. While some may think they deserve this just b/c they're STHs, its against the law for a reason. I don't agree that this event was handled entirely properly by the team. I think they gave the STH's a bit too much leeway in terms of how many tickets they could acquire and did not give the normal fan a fighter's chance at getting them. I get that this event is rare and its even rarer this year b/c its all jammed into one day. I've got a ticket, I'm not arguing this for my own self and my description of the laws was only intended to drive the point home. What the sellers (and some are advertising Hey Rangers, Islanders, Flyers fans!) who are charging exorbitant fees are doing is completely wrong. The protected venues for the sale of tickets (StubHub, Ticketmaster Marketplace) are closed to the sale of these tickets because of this. You have to remember that there are a number of ticket brokers that hold season tickets as well. I dare to say a good number of the tickets for sale on ebay, etc. are from their accounts. The broker's sole purpose for purchasing those seats is to make money, and they don't care what is fair or not. They see the demand for this event and will price themselves into a point where they can maximize their profit and still get rid of the product. If they can't sell at $100 now, they will lower the price as the event gets closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefiestygoat Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I'm not a huge fan of Hagg and think they'll be better options possibly available in the 2nd even amongst other D (Bowey, Heatherington, Santini). This is what Hockey Prospect and Future Considerations essentially had to say on him:Hockey Prospect - Ranked 31st- Good positioning and knowledge in D zone but can get lazy- Inconsistent- Doesn't always use his size (6'2, 204 lbs)- Capable passer but prone to mental lapses resulting in turnovers- Powerful shot, which is his biggest asset Quotable: “This is a player that extends scouting meetings. I think he has top 10 ability but he only occasionally flashed it for me. I’d see one shift and love what I saw and then on the next shift he would leave me wondering what he was doing. His compete level was on and off. This was another player I had plenty of conversations about with NHL scouts. It seemed like most teams staffs had a wide range of opinions. Everywhere from top 10 to late 30’s.” - Mark Edwards Future Considerations - Ranked 24th Overall, 8th for Defensemen- Above average skater, fluid- Controls puck well and can accept difficult passes- Good slap shot- Punishing physical player when he wants to be- Solid understanding of the game- Needs to cut down on turnovers- Lacks consistency and effort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefiestygoat Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Anybody know if there will be some way to catch a replay of the 1st round in terms of TV coverage after next Sunday? I'll be away next Sunday but I probably will want to watch once I get back what took place up to our pick in terms of real-time. I could be wrong, but I think last year the NHL aired re-runs of the 1st round on the NHL Network. I'll try to see if that is the case this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onddeck Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I'm not a huge fan of Hagg and think they'll be better options possibly available in the 2nd even amongst other D (Bowey, Heatherington, Santini). This is what Hockey Prospect and Future Considerations essentially had to say on him: Hockey Prospect - Ranked 31st - Good positioning and knowledge in D zone but can get lazy - Inconsistent - Doesn't always use his size (6'2, 204 lbs) - Capable passer but prone to mental lapses resulting in turnovers - Powerful shot, which is his biggest asset Future Considerations - Ranked 24th Overall, 8th for Defensemen - Above average skater, fluid - Controls puck well and can accept difficult passes - Good slap shot - Punishing physical player when he wants to be - Solid understanding of the game - Needs to cut down on turnovers - Lacks consistency and effort Wait which two prospects are those ratings referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 (edited) ^^ Hagg. Same prospect, different viewpoints. Hockey Prospect and Future Considerations are seperate entities. Edited June 22, 2013 by ghdi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefiestygoat Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Wait which two prospects are those ratings referring to? Sorry for the late response but yeah as ghdi pointed out it was HP's and FC's take on Hagg. I think some of the defenseman ranked around Hagg's range can offer similar or close upside without a lot of the risk which is why I'd rather pass on Hagg if they had a chance at a D like Madison Bowey, Dillon Heatherington, or Steve Santini to name a few. Though Bowey and Heatherington seem like risers who could potentially go in the late 1st round. I also think there could be some quality forwards available too so Hagg isn't on my radar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLL765 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I'm all for giving them some, but ther'es no reason on earth they should have 4 each. THe penguins last year released 1500 for the first day and it was first come first serve not some random lottery where only 250 people win. Not that those are great odds but not ridiculously low ones like here Sigh. If you think online writers can't get any press credentials, you really have no idea what you're talking about Please explain why they don't deserve 4 each? My Father is a STH, he has 4 seats he splits with 3 other people, so there's 4 people total. Why don't they all deserve 1 ticket? From my understanding, their acct only was guaranteed 2 tickets. Any extras were given only after they gauged interest with the contest, or so it seemed to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefiestygoat Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Looks like this is how the TV coverage will shake out: Saturday 7-8 NHL Network: 2013 Scouting Combine Recap Sunday 3-8 NBC Sports: Live Draft Coverage 8-10:30 NHL Network: Live Draft Coverage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Please explain why they don't deserve 4 each? My Father is a STH, he has 4 seats he splits with 3 other people, so there's 4 people total. Why don't they all deserve 1 ticket? From my understanding, their acct only was guaranteed 2 tickets. Any extras were given only after they gauged interest with the contest, or so it seemed to me. They were able to request 4 more before the contest. Case in point, my friend Mark has 2 season tickets in club. He was able to request 4 tickets + the 2 he already receives before the contest, then he won the contest too. He now has 8 tickets while his STH plan is 2 game seats. I'm not complaining at all about what STHs received nor that they took what they were offered, but it would've been a lot more fair to all if STHs were guaranteed 1 for each seat they pay for, so your dad and his friends all together should receive 4. The option to request more should not have been provided IMO. Get what you pay for and if you want more go the same route everyone else had to. W/E now. Whats done is done. My only complaint has been the Devils could've done it a lot better. I'm sick of reading it and talking about it so going to stop now unless theres misinformation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Yay! I won free tickets for.....Sunday. Most of the drama will be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 They were able to request 4 more before the contest. Case in point, my friend Mark has 2 season tickets in club. He was able to request 4 tickets + the 2 he already receives before the contest, then he won the contest too. He now has 8 tickets while his STH plan is 2 game seats. Ok yeah, that seems a little much. I would either say that was an isolated error or oversight by the Devils or whatever system they're using or I'll be fair and say those club seats are expensive as hell compared to my upper corners, so they felt like they'd throw him a few extra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Yay! I won free tickets for.....Sunday. Most of the drama will be gone The draft isn't two days this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Yay! I won free tickets for.....Sunday. Most of the drama will be gone. haha its only sunday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Interesting piece here, again, from Copper And Blue: http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/24/4458984/chl-forwards-and-relative-plus-minus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Yay! I won free tickets for.....Sunday. Most of the drama will be gone. It's only a one-day draf.... I mean... yeah, that sucks, you should just get rid of that ticket. Want me to throw it away for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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