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SMantzas

2013 NHL Draft

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I'm not sold on Shinkaruk either.  Smaller player, not a lot of God-given talent, but a hard-ass worker (we've seen this recipe before..recently..)

If possible, I want the Devils to grab a dynamic player, a game changer.  You don't come across them very often (especially if you're the Devils), and I really want the Devils to try and capitalize on this opportunity.  Even if it means parting ways with Fayne or another player in order to trade up into the 5th or 6th spot.

Edited by Devilsfan118

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I'm not huge on Nurse myself because in his numbers I don't see offense.  And while it'd be nice to get a Colin White type in the organization (and indeed, this is the one type of piece the Devils D is lacking, it's got plenty of offense), there's only so far you can go with this sort of player.

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I'm not huge on Nurse myself because in his numbers I don't see offense. And while it'd be nice to get a Colin White type in the organization (and indeed, this is the one type of piece the Devils D is lacking, it's got plenty of offense), there's only so far you can go with this sort of player.

Just curious, why aren't you sold on Shinkaruk. He put up very good numbers on a very meh team. Meanwhile, Domi put up similar numbers on a stacked team.

Is it because he's a boom or bust guy while Domi could probably play bottom six with his speed and physicality?

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Just curious, why aren't you sold on Shinkaruk. He put up very good numbers on a very meh team. Meanwhile, Domi put up similar numbers on a stacked team.

Is it because he's a boom or bust guy while Domi could probably play bottom six with his speed and physicality?

 

I don't like WHL scorers, I didn't like what i saw out of him against Swift Current in a game I watched, and I didn't like the profile Copper and Blue did on him.  Don't really care about his size, I just don't feel that he's different enough from the rest to take at 9.

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I don't like WHL scorers, I didn't like what i saw out of him against Swift Current in a game I watched, and I didn't like the profile Copper and Blue did on him.  Don't really care about his size, I just don't feel that he's different enough from the rest to take at 9.

 

i already said it but for a reason or another when i see shinkaruk i see a mix of Skinner and Gallagher (Gallagher was from the WHL and came out in the 5th round too). 

 

It's just the energy they bring to a team, thats all you kept on hearing from MTL and from the players how Gallagher was bringing life / energy to the other guys and how much having this kid giving his 150% every shift was helping the team. Plus he can score and he never stops.

 

It's not something you can put numbers on as its an intangible but its absolutely something legit that you have to consider cause thats all character. Since we lost Zach i feel our lockeroom is still missing that "spark". Thats why i'd be all in for Shinkaruk personally.

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Gallagher is a good player first and foremost - energy, great, he's got to be a good player first.  It's hard to construct an NHL team without one of these energy sorts of players.

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While I qualify this by saying that I'm not a scout or talent evaluator, what we're starting to hear about the Devils being interested in one of the defensemen is starting to make me nervous.  Lou has stated the obvious that he would prefer to draft a forward.  If the Devils end up drafting one of the defensemen, it means that they don't expect whatever forward is available at 9 to advance the ball so much in the short or long term.  And really, Nurse, Ristolainen or Zadorov, even if they meet their potential, don't project to be the game breaking defensemen that will be that much better than what the Devils have now, either in terms of prospects or current roster players, and certainly not in the near term. 

 

If I'm Lou, and my assumptions above are correct, I'm pressing very hard to get Carolina's pick.  Carolina has said that it wants an NHL ready, relatively cheap, top four defenseman as part of any package.  At this point, I'd be willing to trade Greene.  Yes, he's our best defenseman right now, but he's not Nick Lidstrom.  The Devils can survive without him, especially if Zidlicky is re-signed.  Whoever is available at 5 -- Drouin, Nischukin or Barkov -- should be first line forwards in the next 2-3 years, and can probably improve the team immediately. 

 

As I've said all along, it is hard to understate how important it is to get this pick right, if not have this pick be a homerun.  Another defenseman not named Seth Jones is not that.  Get it done Lou.

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Hm..

 

Maybe:

Devils:

9th overall

Greene

2nd rnd

 

Carolina:

5th overall

2nd rnd

3rd rnd

 

I usually avoid making trade proposals in fear of looking like a fool..but maybe something like the above would be appropriate? 

Devils send Greene, 9th, receive 5th and a 3rd, and the teams swap 2nd round picks.

Edited by Devilsfan118

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While I qualify this by saying that I'm not a scout or talent evaluator, what we're starting to hear about the Devils being interested in one of the defensemen is starting to make me nervous.  Lou has stated the obvious that he would prefer to draft a forward.  If the Devils end up drafting one of the defensemen, it means that they don't expect whatever forward is available at 9 to advance the ball so much in the short or long term.  And really, Nurse, Ristolainen or Zadorov, even if they meet their potential, don't project to be the game breaking defensemen that will be that much better than what the Devils have now, either in terms of prospects or current roster players, and certainly not in the near term. 

 

If I'm Lou, and my assumptions above are correct, I'm pressing very hard to get Carolina's pick.  Carolina has said that it wants an NHL ready, relatively cheap, top four defenseman as part of any package.  At this point, I'd be willing to trade Greene.  Yes, he's our best defenseman right now, but he's not Nick Lidstrom.  The Devils can survive without him, especially if Zidlicky is re-signed.  Whoever is available at 5 -- Drouin, Nischukin or Barkov -- should be first line forwards in the next 2-3 years, and can probably improve the team immediately. 

 

As I've said all along, it is hard to understate how important it is to get this pick right, if not have this pick be a homerun.  Another defenseman not named Seth Jones is not that.  Get it done Lou.

 

If you're getting picked at #9, by default you're probably not likely to be a sure fire improvement to the team, especially in the short term. The recent best case for that pick is Couture and even he didn't come up right away and be a gamebreaker. You just take the best player you can there and if you're not comfortable w/ the value you trade back and get a Domi/Lazar/Horvat/whoever. If Monahan/Lindholm/whoever are taken and it's Shinkaruk and the defensemen, I'd probably rather have the defensemen but what do I know. It's not like whoever you take at 9's going to come in and win the Calder anyway and 99% likely they won't even be in NJ next year

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Hm..

 

Maybe:

Devils:

9th overall

Greene

2nd rnd

 

Carolina:

5th overall

2nd rnd

3rd rnd

 

I usually avoid making trade proposals in fear of looking like a fool..but maybe something like the above would be appropriate? 

Devils send Greene, 9th, receive 5th and a 3rd, and the teams swap 2nd round picks.

 

 

Ugh Greene right now is one of my top 3 Devils and to trade him would suck for me.  However, #5 pick in this year's draft might just to too good to pass up if he goes the other way.  I would prefer Fayne going but would deal with Greene being the one.

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Not trading Greene to move up - maybe if he had fallen out of favor somewhat, then sure, but he was probably NJ's best defenseman last year.

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I'd definitely be in favor of swapping Fayne for Greene in the above proposal (and perhaps removing the 3rd coming back from Carolina), but I don't know if Fayne is incentive enough for Carolina to move the 5th overall.

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Not trading Greene to move up - maybe if he had fallen out of favor somewhat, then sure, but he was probably NJ's best defenseman last year.

 

I get that, but again, he's still Andy Greene, not Brent Seabrook, Ryan McDonough or Drew Doughty.  (To reference Dennis Miller, Andy Greene being your number 1 defenseman is sort of like being the valedictorian of summer school).  The Devils defense is still good enough without him, especially if Zidlicky comes back. 

 

And we wouldn't be moving up to get a marginally better return than what would we get at 9.  You are talking about a player that projects pretty safely to be a number 1 forward, which the Devils aren't really bursting at the seams with.  I realize no matter how highly touted a prospect is, there are risks.  This is a risk worth taking.  Frankly, I don't see how you could dispute it.  I could just as well see Carolina laughing you out of the room even if you offer them Greene.

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I love Greene, but if Devils internal scouting agrees with more external scouting then I'd give up Greene to move up.  Devils internal scouting may not like whoever is left at 5 that much though, compared to what will be left at 9.

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If you're getting picked at #9, by default you're probably not likely to be a sure fire improvement to the team, especially in the short term. The recent best case for that pick is Couture and even he didn't come up right away and be a gamebreaker. You just take the best player you can there and if you're not comfortable w/ the value you trade back and get a Domi/Lazar/Horvat/whoever. If Monahan/Lindholm/whoever are taken and it's Shinkaruk and the defensemen, I'd probably rather have the defensemen but what do I know. It's not like whoever you take at 9's going to come in and win the Calder anyway and 99% likely they won't even be in NJ next year

 

Without taking a detailed look, going back a long time now, there has always been at least one player drafted in the vicinity of 9 that makes a team a lot better, whether you want to call them a first pairing defenseman, a top line or top six forward. 

 

But really, getting this pick right, and having that pick be a forward, is particularly imporant given where the Devils stand right now.  There are no forwards in the system that you can expect to be any better than a second line forward, and that's if everything turns out well.  And you realistically only have two players -- Boucher and Mattaeu -- that have a shot at being that.  And there isn't a ton of scoring punch at forward on the roster right now, much less forwards that you can expect to dramatically improve.  You couple this with the fact that there's no first round pick next year, having number 9 turn into Justin Bailey or Karl Azner will be a huge setback for the franchise. 

 

Looking from the outside, there's a realistic shot at getting a top line player without paying a king's ransom.  I would be very disappointed if Lou leaves any stone unturned in pursuing Carolina's pick. 

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Josh Bailey and Karl Alzner are both real good NHL players, Alzner especially.  I'd be just fine if pick #9 turned into either of those.

 

Either way, getting back to the point, the defense without Greene, even if you include Zidlicky, is Zidlicky Salvador Fayne Tallinder Larsson Volchenkov, which doesn't strike me as all that great and is relying on 3 players well past their prime to hold down serious minutes.  If Larsson's ready to make the jump then it's better, but it looks pretty bad without him.

 

Regarding the #5 - I don't see who's going to be there who's really worth that kind of moving up.  I like Nichushkin, but not enough to sacrifice Greene for him.  I like Lindholm and Monahan, but again, not enough to sacrifice Greene.  You're not getting one of the top 4 guys with that pick unless somehow Seth Jones falls, in which case the Canes will probably keep the pick.

Edited by Triumph

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Was the 2011 draft more stacked than this one? I ask because you never know. Couterier was expected to go higher than he did. I mean you're not going to get a Hall or Landeskog at #9, but I think it's completely feasible that you can get a solid role player that can put up decent numbers at 9.

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Regarding the #5 - I don't see who's going to be there who's really worth that kind of moving up.  I like Nichushkin, but not enough to sacrifice Greene for him.  I like Lindholm and Monahan, but again, not enough to sacrifice Greene.  You're not getting one of the top 4 guys with that pick unless somehow Seth Jones falls, in which case the Canes will probably keep the pick.

 

I think moving up to 5 only makes sense if the Devils are one of the groups that believe Nichushkin is a special player that is the overlooked player in the top group.  Opinions are all over the map on him, it seems.

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Logan Couture and Mikael Granlund were taken at #9. It's such a toss up. You could draft at #1 and end up with John Tavares or draft at #1 and end up with Alexander Daigle.

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Josh Bailey and Karl Alzner are both real good NHL players, Alzner especially.  I'd be just fine if pick #9 turned into either of those.

 

Either way, getting back to the point, the defense without Greene, even if you include Zidlicky, is Zidlicky Salvador Fayne Tallinder Larsson, which doesn't strike me as all that great and is relying on 3 players well past their prime to hold down serious minutes.  If Larsson's ready to make the jump then it's better, but it looks pretty bad without him.

 

Regarding the #5 - I don't see who's going to be there who's really worth that kind of moving up.  I like Nichushkin, but not enough to sacrifice Greene for him.  I like Lindholm and Monahan, but again, not enough to sacrifice Greene.  You're not getting one of the top 4 guys with that pick unless somehow Seth Jones falls, in which case the Canes will probably keep the pick.

 

Josh Bailey and Karl Azner are assuredly not "real good NHL players".  Neither of them have had much to do with their teams' success, at least above replacement, much more so with Bailey.  And for what the Devils need their equivalents would be huge disappointments.  Karl Azner is a top four defenseman.  We have plenty of those.  Josh Bailey is a third line forward.  Outside of Kovlachuk and Elias, the Devils have plenty of those guys as well.  If the Devils go either of them for nothing, the improvement would be marginal, at best.

 

Regarding the return, as I keep saying I'm not a scout and am only going on what I've read.  Mr. Debbi Downer, Corey Pronman, ranks Nischuskin ahead of Barkov, and raves about both.  The assumption is that you'd be getting one of those two with the number 5 pick.  (Some have speculated that Tampa will take Nischuskin assuming Jones is gone, and that you might even end up with Drouin).

 

So far as what the defense would look like without Greene, there would be a step back in the short term.  I understand.  But among Merrill, Urbom, Gelinas, you could expect at least one of them to be an adequate replacement in two years, and perhaps this year with some luck.  That's not including Severson, who I suppose is still a couple of years away from the NHL.  You could also make a reasonable bet that Fayne and Larsson will improve to the point that you could take the sting out of losing Greene.

Edited by Daniel

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Josh Bailey and Karl Azner are assuredly not "real good NHL players".  Neither of them have had much to do with their teams' success, at least above replacement, much more so with Bailey.  And for what the Devils need their equivalents would be huge disappointments.  Karl Azner is a top four defenseman.  We have plenty of those.  Josh Bailey is a third line forward.  Outside of Kovlachuk and Elias, the Devils have plenty of those guys as well.  If the Devils go either of them for nothing, the improvement would be marginal, at best.

 

Regarding the return, as I keep saying I'm not a scout and am only going on what I've read.  Mr. Debbi Downer, Corey Pronman, ranks Nischuskin ahead of Barkov, and raves about both.  The assumption is that you'd be getting one of those two with the number 5 pick.  (Some have speculated that Tampa will take Nischuskin assuming Jones is gone, and that you might even end up with Drouin).

 

So far as what the defense would look like without Greene, there would be a step back in the short term.  I understand.  But among Merrill, Urbom, Gelinas, you could expect at least one of them to be an adequate replacement in two years, and perhaps this year with some luck.  That's not including Severson, who I suppose is still a couple of years away from the NHL.  You could also make a reasonable bet that Fayne and Larsson will improve to the point that you could take the sting out of losing Greene.

 

If you could get an Alzner level player here, I don't care about need you take him no questions asked. Alzner's the best defenseman on a team that was pretty good last year and should've gone farther. And by the time Nurse or whoever got to teh NHL, we wouldn't have a bunch of top 4 guys anymore, Volchenkov would be shot, Salvador would be gone and Tallinder would be gone. Greene and Fayne could be too who knows.

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If you could get an Alzner level player here, I don't care about need you take him no questions asked. Alzner's the best defenseman on a team that was pretty good last year and should've gone farther. And by the time Nurse or whoever got to teh NHL, we wouldn't have a bunch of top 4 guys anymore, Volchenkov would be shot, Salvador would be gone and Tallinder would be gone. Greene and Fayne could be too who knows.

 

Great, you get Karl Azner type player, and that's it, and watch your team hover on the playoff bubble for the next five years.  If that's the best we can do in this draft, it is what it is.  It doesn't mean it's something to get all that excited about, because it isn't.

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I'm with Daniel on this.  The Devils rarely pick in the top-10 (..with the these two years being an exception, I guess), they need to take advantage.  They NEED to try and get a special player.  Not a serviceable one.

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Great, you get Karl Azner type player, and that's it, and watch your team hover on the playoff bubble for the next five years.  If that's the best we can do in this draft, it is what it is.  It doesn't mean it's something to get all that excited about, because it isn't.

 

I don't think you guys know how good Alzner is. He's not "serviceable" he's a hell of a defenseman and if you get someone that good here, no matter what position he plays, you take him. If you think Nurse/whoever's that good for sure, you jump on him. Alzner's better than anyone we have now probably except maybe Greene

 

And when you only have a few picks, you don't use them all to trade up 4 spots when the player you take there is probably not much better if at all better than the guy you're getting at 9

Edited by DH26

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