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NFL Week 15!

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Patriots ball security in the 1st half and 2nd half special teams (long return at 31-31, plus 3 holding penalties on returns) are square to blame for this game.

Long return was definitely a killer, as were the special teams penalties. Admittedly, the D did make some key stops tonight...don't know how much more I could've asked of them, though getting toasted 35 yards to make it 38-31 was aggravating, and typical of what happens to BB defenses in big spots in recent years.

Onside kicks are such low percentage plays...they're so rarely recovered.

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Why in the hell do you not punt there and take your chances on getting the ball back and playing 3 run stops?? Makes more sense then throwing a TERRIBLE pass in this pseudo-soup......

Well they did go for it on 4th and more than 1 earlier in the quarter, but yeah that's too deep in your territory to do that and like the announcers said they tried to get too much...shoulda just ran a curl after five yards instead of drifting toward the linebacker.

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And why yards gained don't mean that much:

Pats had 520 yards of offense and Brady threw for 443 yards. Pretty amazing when one considers Brady had about 75 yards at the end of the first half.

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Well they did go for it on 4th and more than 1 earlier in the quarter, but yeah that's too deep in your territory to do that and like the announcers said they tried to get too much...shoulda just ran a curl after five yards instead of drifting toward the linebacker.

At that point I think adrenaline is running and nerves are so frayed...that game was so crazy. The best decisions aren't always made under such circumstances.

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Long return was definitely a killer, as were the special teams penalties. Admittedly, the D did make some key stops tonight...don't know how much more I could've asked of them, though getting toasted 35 yards to make it 38-31 was aggravating, and typical of what happens to BB defenses in big spots in recent years.

Onside kicks are such low percentage plays...they're so rarely recovered.

Arrington's been a sieve all season when he's not committing dumb PI fouls. After Talib arrived he was benched in favor of Dennard who unfortunatly got hurt.

I'm not worried about Brady or the defense. The biggest concern is Ridley and Vereen who have caught a sudden case of the fumbles. The Patriots ground game has been key to their offense all season especailly in closing games and opening up play action. With both putting the ball on the ground that just forces everything on the passing game. Gronk must come back quickly because Hernandez is no-where the physical player that Gronk is. Gronk is also the Patriots only jump ball threat.

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yea it must b great to have 1 eye on ur team and the other eye on 16 other gmaes. sorry to be so negative on te jets lately but i dont think they deserve to be in the playoffs

Big Mike's Cowboys have won 3 straight and now he's all talk. I love it!

Tell me something.. with 2 games left on the season, and the possibility of the Jets, Colts, Ravens, Bengals, & Steelers all finishing with 9 wins.. who DESERVES to make the playoffs in the AFC? The 1-Trick-Pony AJ Green Bengals? Baltimore, who's 4-4 over their last 8 games, and trying not to lose their 4th in-a-row to the Giants next Sunday? Or the Colts, who's 9 victories have come from juggernaut teams like Buffalo, Miami, Cleveland, Detroit, Tennessee 2x, and Jacksonville?

..and I'm not sure what you mean in "keeping our eyes on sixteen" other games.. because provided we win tomorrow, Jet fans will only be concerned with 2 match-up's next weekend; our game, and Pitt/Cincy. If the Jets beat SD, and Pittsburgh beats Cincinnati, then the Jets\Bengals\Steelers would all be 8-7. Again.. provided we win tomorrow.

Jets still alive!

I can't begin to explain how important the Dallas win was. The Jets would've had no shot whatsoever had Pittsburgh pulled that game out. Now, as I said above, all we have to do is focus on 2 games next Sunday. Ours and Pittsburgh. I won't even begin to think what happens if Indy drops the next 2 but omg.. could you fvcking imagine?!

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Most of the time this talk about 'deserving' to make the playoffs is silly, especially if you're a Wild Card and legitimately a top-five six team in the conference. Sometimes you can take advantage of a weak division if you're not one of the top six, that's the only point where I tend to think well maybe they didn't deserve to make the playoffs but the last two times that happened, those teams DID win a playoff round (the 7-9 Seahawks and the 8-8 Tebow Broncos).

I'd be beyond amused if the Jets somehow made the playoffs after all the negativity but really, this is just about staying alive for another couple of weeks. They still need A) help and B) to actually be consistent enough to finish off a five-game winning streak. I really don't see either happening, I just want to have a chance going into Week 17, that's about all you can realistically hope for from this season which looked like an utter disaster.

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Wacky numbers time:

Brady against NFC West opponents this season (1-3 record): 4 TD, 5 INT

Brady against AFC opponents (9-1 record): 26 TD, 1 INT

Only Miami in the AFC has an interception against Brady this year.

Not sure how much I'll make of that, but anything that bodes well for the Patriots come playoff time, I'll happily take.

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I don't get the "genius" bit. He can't play the game, and he isn't a perfect coach. But he has made some outstanding adjustments to get NE back in this game.

Not sure how many Patriots games you watch, but the regular season tells it all, in terms of the Patriot offense...obviously the Patriot O hasn't accounted for ALL of these points, as some of these points were scored on special teams and turnovers, but they give you an idea of how prolific Brady and the offense has been since 2007, no matter who the coordinator is (in 2008, they managed to put up 410 points with Matt Cassel):

2007: 589 (1st overall, highest single-season total ever)

2009: 427 (6th)

2010: 518 (1st)

2011: 513 (2nd)

2012: 506 (1st) (through 14 games...only one other team has so many as 400 points through 14 GP)

The fact that the Patriots have an outside shot at the breaking their own record for PF (they need 84 points in two games...if they have a monster game against the Jags, they have a shot), and the fact that they've had three consecutive 500+ PF seasons, shows how incredibly prolific the offense has been. And last night's effort notwithstanding, they don't turn the ball over much either: Brady has thrown 105 TDs against 22 INT the last three seasons...in short, the offense has been able to cover up a LOT of defensive ills for quite some time now. The only thing the Patriot D has been solid at is minimizing the points-against damage, in relation to the vast amount of yards they allow (usually near the bottom in yards allowed, but middle-of-the-pack in PA). They have a knack of coming up with timely fumble recoveries and INTs, but some of the INTs they've gotten have been absolute gifts (all teams get these, but I have seen teams flat-out shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to facing the Patriots...Ryan Fitzpatrick comes to mind instantly).

But the main problem with the Patriot D goes all they way back to the 2006 AFC Championship Game...when asked to make a big stop in a big game, they not only not do it, but the opposing QB marches his team right down the field with relative ease. Joe Flacco did it. Ryan Fitzpatrick nearly did it before self-destructing. Eli Manning did it twice in the Super Bowl. And the list goes on...QBs who struggle against other teams have been able to put up big yards on the Pats, but Brady and Co is often able to bail them out. To be fair, the O has also come up small in some games (especially in the playoffs recently...outside of that monster game against the Broncos last season, they haven't been nearly as dominant in playoff games), but the D has had a lot of follies in key moments. And when your head coach is supposed to be a defensive mastermind, that shouldn't happen as often as it does. Think about it...the Patriots will have a three-year period where they'll have put up roughly 1600 points, and may only have one Super Bowl appearance in that time to show for it. Clearly Super Bowls aren't won on offense alone, but that's kind of hard to fathom.

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Big Mike's Cowboys have won 3 straight and now he's all talk. I love it!

Tell me something.. with 2 games left on the season, and the possibility of the Jets, Colts, Ravens, Bengals, & Steelers all finishing with 9 wins.. who DESERVES to make the playoffs in the AFC? The 1-Trick-Pony AJ Green Bengals? Baltimore, who's 4-4 over their last 8 games, and trying not to lose their 4th in-a-row to the Giants next Sunday? Or the Colts, who's 9 victories have come from juggernaut teams like Buffalo, Miami, Cleveland, Detroit, Tennessee 2x, and Jacksonville?

..and I'm not sure what you mean in "keeping our eyes on sixteen" other games.. because provided we win tomorrow, Jet fans will only be concerned with 2 match-up's next weekend; our game, and Pitt/Cincy. If the Jets beat SD, and Pittsburgh beats Cincinnati, then the Jets\Bengals\Steelers would all be 8-7. Again.. provided we win tomorrow.

I can't begin to explain how important the Dallas win was. The Jets would've had no shot whatsoever had Pittsburgh pulled that game out. Now, as I said above, all we have to do is focus on 2 games next Sunday. Ours and Pittsburgh. I won't even begin to think what happens if Indy drops the next 2 but omg.. could you fvcking imagine?!

exactly, I can't believe Dallas pulled that out. Usually Pitt brings its A game and a mentally fragile Cowboy team just collapses. Roethlisberger as usual pulled a few rabbits out of his hat...and of course penalties were like 9-0 in favor of Dallas (funny how that usually happens to the Steelers in big games :whistling: ) even on the huge fumble on the punt return there was a massive, blatant uncalled hold by Pitt.

You could even narrow it and say we just have to focus on one game (should we win tonight) ours. Because the winner of Pitt/Cinci has to lose the following week anyway. If pitt wins we root for cleveland in wk 17. If Cinci wins we root for baltimore week 17.

And hoping against hope Indy falters and gives us a 2nd path. Unlikely though

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Geez, what's with all the Belichek hate? And people think I fly off the handle with Tamnehill.

News flash, virtually every defense in the NFL sucks, especially when going up against a good offense. The rules these days virtually guarantee it.

And Coughlin was also supposedly a defense oriented coach, until he adjusted to new realities.

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Geez, what's with all the Belichek hate? And people think I fly off the handle with Tamnehill.

It's not hate. It's like many have noted, his defenses have been brutal lately. No, defenders can't defend like they once did, and offensive numbers are bloated as a result, but NE has ranked 22nd, 25th, 31st and 26th in total defense the past four seasons (including this one), and though I don't usually make THAT much of total defense (mostly because it's only based on yards allowed), that is not good, and like I've said, there's too many games where opposing QBs and offenses...even the shaky ones...have big days against that defense. That D has played as bad as those rankings would suggest. BB has to take some criticism for that.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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And hoping against hope Indy falters and gives us a 2nd path. Unlikely though

The Colts\Chiefs game has letdown written all over it. Confidence is key in sports, and the pressure Indy's feeling right now not to "blow this against an easy team" when the media has already anointed them playoff bound, is HUGE. KC's lost 11 of their last 12, and are definitely due for a win. It's their first home game in weeks.. and Indy may overlook them a tad being that their next game is a rematch with the Texans. Not predicting this to be a lock, but if there was any perfect time for a trap-game, it's this one.

I've said it before; -if there is any team standing in the Jets way, it's the JETS! It's astonishing that everything's breaking the right way for us.. but it's all for not, if the Jets can't take care of their own business. There is no reason at all why the Jets should lose this game tonight. They have playoff momentum, and the fact that things are breaking right for them. They have the redemption momentum of embarrassing themselves the last time on primetime. They have the Braylon momentum. They have all the momentum! The Titans are bottom 5 in defense, offense, and special teams. No excuses!!

I just want to have a chance going into Week 17.

Last season sucked, but it came down to the last game of the year to determine if we'd make the postseason. As a football fan, you obviously want to see your team win a Championship. After that, at the very least, you want to see meaningful games played in the month of December. This is the 4th straight season under Ryan where that's happened, and no head coach in the history of the franchise can say that. Not Joe Walton, not Bill Parcells, no one! Ryan is far from perfect, but his team(s) play hard for him.

The thing that concerns me is the Jets making the playoffs, and everything staying the status'quo. Woody looking at the 4 year body of work and saying; Well, we finished Top 5 in defense again.. never had a losing record in 4 seasons.. we made the playoffs ¾ years.. everything's fine!" -that would kill me!! Everything's not fine, and I hope upper management is able to see that. I'm not suggesting breaking up the nucleus, I think the core should remain intact. But there are wholesale changes to the supporting cast of players\coaches\front-office that need to go, regardless of what happens this year.

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It's not hate. It's like many have noted, his defenses have been brutal lately. No, defenders can't defend like they once did, and offensive numbers are bloated as a result, but NE has ranked 22nd, 25th, 31st and 26th in total defense the past four seasons (including this one), and though I don't usually make THAT much of total defense (mostly because it's only based on yards allowed), that is not good, and like I've said, there's too many games where opposing QBs and offenses...even the shaky ones...have big days against that defense. That D has played as bad as those rankings would suggest. BB has to take some criticism for that.

Some of that is probably the result of the up-tempo offense NE does, and almost perfected, now. Notice that other teams that do that well, New Orleans and Green Bay have had notoriously shaky defenses.

Ultimately though, you play to win the game. At worst, NE will be an eleven win team just as they are every year.

Pats fans have very little to complain about.

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Wacky numbers time:

Brady against NFC West opponents this season (1-3 record): 4 TD, 5 INT

Brady against AFC opponents (9-1 record): 26 TD, 1 INT

Only Miami in the AFC has an interception against Brady this year.

Not sure how much I'll make of that, but anything that bodes well for the Patriots come playoff time, I'll happily take.

. Yeah and that INT was a great play by Reshad Jones- it wasn't a great throw by Brady, but it wasn't an easy pick to make either. Jones made a play more than Brady made a mistake. It's amazing how smart a player Brady is.

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Some of that is probably the result of the up-tempo offense NE does, and almost perfected, now. Notice that other teams that do that well, New Orleans and Green Bay have had notoriously shaky defenses.

Ultimately though, you play to win the game. At worst, NE will be an eleven win team just as they are every year.

Pats fans have very little to complain about.

Look, it's great to be a 10-plus win team every year, no question, and it wasn't until Mo Lewis took out Drew Bledsoe that the Patriots became the Patriots...successful seasons had been few and far between before Brady got his chance, by pure dumb luck. EVERYONE associated with the Patriots (including the fans) thought it was Bledsoe or bust. No one thought they had some gem waiting to get his chance...he was drafted 199th overall for a reason. The year before Bledsoe got hurt, the Patriots were picked in a poll of GMs to be the least likely team to win a Super Bowl in the next five years. What has happened since Brady got his shot has been amazing...an incredible run.

But as Dallas fans have found out, the party doesn't last forever. Brady is now 35 years old, and though he's showing no signs of decline, who knows realistically how many years he has left. It can end quickly. You only get so many opportunities to win championships. The Giants deserved both of their Super Bowl wins, but at the same time, as a fan it's hard to see the opportunities slip by, especially with the all of the gaudy regular-season records...they're 96-30 since they won SB#3...don't get me wrong, every fan would kill for a stretch like that, the Brady-BB era has been incredible...but that doesn't mean it doesn't sting to seasons go by without a SB win, especially when they're always in the mix.

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Look, it's great to be a 10-plus win team every year, no question, and it wasn't until Mo Lewis took out Drew Bledsoe that the Patriots became the Patriots...successful seasons had been few and far between before Brady got his chance, by pure dumb luck. EVERYONE associated with the Patriots (including the fans) thought it was Bledsoe or bust. No one thought they had some gem waiting to get his chance...he was drafted 199th overall for a reason. The year before Bledsoe got hurt, the Patriots were picked in a poll of GMs to be the least likely team to win a Super Bowl in the next five years. What has happened since Brady got his shot has been amazing...an incredible run.

But as Dallas fans have found out, the party doesn't last forever. Brady is now 35 years old, and though he's showing no signs of decline, who knows realistically how many years he has left. It can end quickly. You only get so many opportunities to win championships. The Giants deserved both of their Super Bowl wins, but at the same time, as a fan it's hard to see the opportunities slip by, especially with the all of the gaudy regular-season records...they're 96-30 since they won SB#3...don't get me wrong, every fan would kill for a stretch like that, the Brady-BB era has been incredible...but that doesn't mean it doesn't sting to seasons go by without a SB win, especially when they're always in the mix.

Thank god you're not a Jets fan.

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Thank god you're not a Jets fan.

I'm a Mets fan. Pretty much the same thing, different sport.

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Not sure how many Patriots games you watch, but the regular season tells it all, in terms of the Patriot offense...obviously the Patriot O hasn't accounted for ALL of these points, as some of these points were scored on special teams and turnovers, but they give you an idea of how prolific Brady and the offense has been since 2007, no matter who the coordinator is (in 2008, they managed to put up 410 points with Matt Cassel):

2007: 589 (1st overall, highest single-season total ever)

2009: 427 (6th)

2010: 518 (1st)

2011: 513 (2nd)

2012: 506 (1st) (through 14 games...only one other team has so many as 400 points through 14 GP)

The fact that the Patriots have an outside shot at the breaking their own record for PF (they need 84 points in two games...if they have a monster game against the Jags, they have a shot), and the fact that they've had three consecutive 500+ PF seasons, shows how incredibly prolific the offense has been. And last night's effort notwithstanding, they don't turn the ball over much either: Brady has thrown 105 TDs against 22 INT the last three seasons...in short, the offense has been able to cover up a LOT of defensive ills for quite some time now. The only thing the Patriot D has been solid at is minimizing the points-against damage, in relation to the vast amount of yards they allow (usually near the bottom in yards allowed, but middle-of-the-pack in PA). They have a knack of coming up with timely fumble recoveries and INTs, but some of the INTs they've gotten have been absolute gifts (all teams get these, but I have seen teams flat-out shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to facing the Patriots...Ryan Fitzpatrick comes to mind instantly).

But the main problem with the Patriot D goes all they way back to the 2006 AFC Championship Game...when asked to make a big stop in a big game, they not only not do it, but the opposing QB marches his team right down the field with relative ease. Joe Flacco did it. Ryan Fitzpatrick nearly did it before self-destructing. Eli Manning did it twice in the Super Bowl. And the list goes on...QBs who struggle against other teams have been able to put up big yards on the Pats, but Brady and Co is often able to bail them out. To be fair, the O has also come up small in some games (especially in the playoffs recently...outside of that monster game against the Broncos last season, they haven't been nearly as dominant in playoff games), but the D has had a lot of follies in key moments. And when your head coach is supposed to be a defensive mastermind, that shouldn't happen as often as it does. Think about it...the Patriots will have a three-year period where they'll have put up roughly 1600 points, and may only have one Super Bowl appearance in that time to show for it. Clearly Super Bowls aren't won on offense alone, but that's kind of hard to fathom.

I watch a ton of every team, and with the Pats, it is hard not to with the amount of game of the week matchups and prime time games they get. Plus, I have family who are massive massive fans. I know this team inside and out.

Let's get real here. Bill's calling is no longer defense. The Patriots defense has not been good for a long time. The drafting has not been good, etc. But I think defensively they still overachieve year in and year out. It's usually bend and not break with this team. They have held their own against a lot of good offenses even with a crummy defense. But at times, they have also let some crappy QBs look great for one week. That can be frustrating.

However, Bill has done wonders offensively. It isn't just Tom Brady. Tom Brady might be the greatest QB ever when it is all said and done, but this is a system with enough weapons that a lot of lesser QBs can succeed in. There are matchup issues all over the field each week. Back in 2008, Matt Cassell came in and led NE to an 11-5 record with an offense that still averaged 27 points a game. Matt Cassel is one of the worst QBs in the NFL.

The standards and expectations are set so high. Super Bowl or bust for fans. Maybe that is fair, probably not. Aren't you the one that calls Devils fans spoiled for having those same expectations? The fact that you can have those expectations in the NFL of all league is incredible, and I think has as much to do with Bill as it does with Brady. I don't think you realize how lucky you are until you are a fan of another team. I'm a Panthers fan. I've seen a 1-15 season and a 2-14 season in the past decade. I've seen talented teams underachieve. I've seen talented teams like this one (a team with enough talent to be in the playoffs, 100%), blow games due do to awful coaching and game management. I think the Panthers are 1-12 under Rivera in 7 points or less games. A lot of those losses are due to his idiotic coaching decisions.

Anyway, getting back to the defense or offense debate. The Patriots have lost two Super Bowls where there defense played very well, and Tom Brady did not. In 2007, the Patriots averaged 37 points a game and 17 against. Well their defense did their job with 17 points given up. Their offense did not scoring only 14. Last year they averaged 32 points while giving up 21. Defense did their part in the SB, but the offense did not.

I think Brady has more to do with those two losses than Bill does.

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In fairness, I have been watching Patriots football a long time...I remember the Zeke Mowatt pecker-waving incident with Lisa Olson all too well. It's not like I don't have any perspective here. I'm 42 years old...I wasn't born in the 90s. I remember the lean Patriot years very well. Back in the late 80s-early 90s, just before Bledsoe and Parcells saved the franchise and got them credibility, my college buds wondered how in hell I could ever be a Patriot fan.

As for the Super Bowls against the Giants, both times the D had their shot to seal the deal, having a lead to work with, and didn't get it done. In both games, it did feel to me like the Pats were outcoached. The first loss, it took an incredible play by David Tyree, one that is now legend...on that one I have to tip my hat to the Giants. Last year was a bit tougher. I have said that the Patriot offense isn't blameless...I have pointed out their recent payoff outputs haven't matched their regular season prowess.

As far as Brady being the greatest ever...I think it's too hard to do that across eras...the game has changed too much. He's clearly one of the very best of THIS era.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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The Pats fans have a legit gripe, they've put an all world offense on the field and it looks like Belichick is basically just half assing it with defense. Is he putting the time and effort into preparation? Who knows, but they haven't done all to well in drafting defense...especially secondary which is Belichicks strong suit.

In my view Bill is not holding up his end. He was gifted with a great QB and have developed a dynamically offensive system where you can just basically plug guys in and they succeed. That's the formula on offense...how much is Belichick, a defensive guy, responsible for that? Who knows

But his neglect or just plain laziness with the D is puzzling. Some Bulwarks remain...Wilfork, Ninkovich, they'll make plays but are not consistent dominant players. The cover guys they've continued to bring in have been disasters

much as I hate to say it. Landry would be the perfect Patriot next year. Rodney Harrison v2

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I get where dr33 is coming from, as to how I could have it a whole lot worse, but BB has been hearing it from a lot of sources this year...I watch the Patriot postgame shows, and check out the Boston papers online, and he's been criticized about the defense.

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Jon Gruden: "Whenever you see Sanchez, Tebow and Sparano on the sideline, it looks like they're trying to solve a calculus problem."

Never have truer words been spoken

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I love how even Gruden who doesn't kill anyone was aghast at the Tebow series. Especially coming when it did, after they got behind on the 95-yard run and with Sanchez not looking terrible to this point.

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I love how even Gruden who doesn't kill anyone was aghast at the Tebow series. Especially coming when it did, after they got behind on the 95-yard run and with Sanchez not looking terrible to this point.

Sanchez sucks....

Edit: looks like it wont be an INT afterall

Edited by SMantzas

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