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Lockout goes legal

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https://twitter.com/TGfireandice

According to TG and multiple other sources the NHL has preempted the NHLPA's attempt to force the leagues hand by threatening to file a disclaimer of interest. Instead the league is filing a claim that the PA is not negotiating in good faith because of that threat. Major backfire for the players IMO. If you aren't familiar with the legal jargon (i know i wasn't) check the link to TSN. They did a great summary of what it is and what it means and the whole bit from back when there was rumors they were considering this back around thanksgiving.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410312

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Look I am not siding with the owners, but the players are fools to be following Fehr at this point. Fehr is "a negotiator" , but he is an attorney first, and most attorneys will keep up the fight for ever, especially one who has no ties to whether or not the NHL ever plays again. The players better well understand that he will have no problem taking this thing right over the cliff. The scariest thing is, I think the owners also don't have a problem with that. Today was paycheck day, #5 of 13. So that means roughly 40% of this seasons salaries are gone, to never return. This thing really gets in the courts, this season is gone, and probably a couple more. By the time it comes back most of these players will be done. I'm not saying what the owners are asking for is right, just that at a certain point many of these players will be left with nothing. Fools....

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I really don't see why the players should have to just lay down right now and give up on the issues that are important to them.. They hired Fehr, a well-known tough negotiator, to advocate for them and get these issues in the next CBA.. Why should they give in because the owners won't? If they do, then they set a precedent that the owners can continue to play hardball in the future and wait for the players to give up

The players have collectively shown that this CBA represents more than their immediate best interests, it's partially about getting a deal and setting precedents that are good for future players and I find it incredibly admirable that they're willing to lose some money for it

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Colin's got it, but beyond that, they hired Fehr to tell them what to do in this case. The owners' best deal has yet to come. And if it's going to be a 10 year CBA, Fehr had better make damn sure it's the best one he can get, because he won't have another crack at it.

The players' only leverage is threatening the season themselves. That's what they're doing now.

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Its very simple. If the collective owners dont want to give what the collective players want, they wont. The players cant break the owners... the owners can easily break the union by time alone.

Take the deal... or wait longer and take a worse deal (like

last time). The NHL was ready for this, and all the talks of getting this into a pro labor court can stope now.

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Its very simple. If the collective owners dont want to give what the collective players want, they wont. The players cant break the owners... the owners can easily break the union by time alone.

Take the deal... or wait longer and take a worse deal (like

last time). The NHL was ready for this, and all the talks of getting this into a pro labor court can stope now.

The deal the players union got was way better in July of 2005 than it was at any other point. It cost the current players more but rewarded future players far more. Remember, the NHL was offering a DELINKED cap of $42M in February 2005.

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Yeah, good luck to the players trying to win this in court when they had Ryan Miller and others spouting off about decertification publicly WEEKS ago, before the PA ever made a real offer. We'll see how good a lawyer Fehr really is now going against the mafia lawfirm of Bettman/Daly and Batterman.

The full class-action suit:

http://www.sportsnet.../nhlvsnhlpa.pdf

Edited by NJDevs4978

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NHL using the PA's own words and beliefs for their own benefit...love it. B )

On the one hand I can't get enough of Fehr and the PA getting their a$$ handed to it. On the other hand, I do agree with the unionites that the owners can't be allowed to just dictate a CBA without any real 'negotiation'.

This must be what a Ranger-Flyer Stanley Cup Final would feel like. You want to revel in one going down in flames, but that means the other's going to win. And this is one side of rich fvcks (Rangers) against another side of slightly less rich but more whiny fvcks (Flyers). Come to think of it, that's actually not too far off from what both teams really are :P

Edited by NJDevs4978

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Yeah, good luck to the players trying to win this in court when they had Ryan Miller and others spouting off about decertification publicly WEEKS ago, before the PA ever made a real offer. We'll see how good a lawyer Fehr really is now going against the mafia lawfirm of Bettman/Daly and Batterman.

The full class-action suit:

http://www.sportsnet.../nhlvsnhlpa.pdf

The NHL doesn't want this going to court. Kessler has the right quotes here: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/discussions-between-nhl-union-and-moderators-end-without-progress-but-plans-to-talk-again-183470231.html

"With Kessler at the helm, NBA players filed a disclaimer of interest while they were locked out in November 2011. Almost immediately, the owners changed their stance on 'maybe 15 or 20 different issues,' according to Kessler."

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The NHL doesn't want this going to court. Kessler has the right quotes here: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/discussions-between-nhl-union-and-moderators-end-without-progress-but-plans-to-talk-again-183470231.html

"With Kessler at the helm, NBA players filed a disclaimer of interest while they were locked out in November 2011. Almost immediately, the owners changed their stance on 'maybe 15 or 20 different issues,' according to Kessler."

Isnt kessler saying right there that this is just a ploy to get more in negotiations? Im pretty sure that is what the NHL is arguing against. They are saying they are just using this as a threat in negotiations, and therefore not negotiating in good faith. I dont see who kessler's quote here helps the players in anyway.

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Isnt kessler saying right there that this is just a ploy to get more in negotiations? Im pretty sure that is what the NHL is arguing against. They are saying they are just using this as a threat in negotiations, and therefore not negotiating in good faith. I dont see who kessler's quote here helps the players in anyway.

The NBA filed the same suit in August 2011 - and I mean literally, word for word, many sections are exactly the same, although they didn't have a bunch of quotes to back them up - the NBAPA didn't disclaim until November 2011. It still worked.

Edited by Triumph

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Yeah, good luck to the players trying to win this in court when they had Ryan Miller and others spouting off about decertification publicly WEEKS ago, before the PA ever made a real offer.

Isnt kessler saying right there that this is just a ploy to get more in negotiations? Im pretty sure that is what the NHL is arguing against.

I don't understand the law and I do think this is a ploy by the NHLPA, but I simply do not understand how a court could rule that a union does not have the ability to disclaim interest / decertify. That seems absolutely fundamental to the entire concept of unions. Also I don't understand why negotiation ploys are necessarily off limits and a court could prevent a union from trying to get the best deal by any legal means necessary.

The NHLPA tried to negotiate, it hasn't worked, they've missed 5 pay checks. Doesn't that justify on the face disclaimining interest / decertifying? If collective bargaining has failed to get this players employment so far I don't see how they could argue this move is unjustified and not negotiating in good faith. It all seems like empty threats from the NHL to me.

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I really don't see why the players should have to just lay down right now and give up on the issues that are important to them.. They hired Fehr, a well-known tough negotiator, to advocate for them and get these issues in the next CBA.. Why should they give in because the owners won't? If they do, then they set a precedent that the owners can continue to play hardball in the future and wait for the players to give up

The players have collectively shown that this CBA represents more than their immediate best interests, it's partially about getting a deal and setting precedents that are good for future players and I find it incredibly admirable that they're willing to lose some money for it

Amen, right on

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http://www.torontosu...nhlpa-dissolves

mmm is this legit?

"The NHL requests a declaration that, if the NHLPA's decertification or disclaimer were not deemed invalid by the NLRB, and the collective bargaining relationship between the parties were not otherwise to continue, all existing contracts between NHL players and NHL teams (known as Standard Player's Contracts or "SPCs") would be void and unenforceable," wrote the league.

Edited by SterioDesign

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No, that won't happen, just an attempt to scare the PA.

Yeah well if YOU know that well Fehr knows it too

fvck those godamn games they are playing

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Does it really scare the players ? All players free agent with no salary cap in place ?

Worst bluff ever ?

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Does it really scare the players ? All players free agent with no salary cap in place ?

Worst bluff ever ?

It would scare a lot of players who are in favorable contract situations (like say Anton Volchenkov). Also losing your job is scary no matter how good you are at it.

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http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/12/16/locked-out-of-a-restaurant-joffrey-lupul-says-leafs-barred-from-making-reservations-at-toronto-establishment/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

It would scare a lot of players who are in favorable contract situations (like say Anton Volchenkov). Also losing your job is scary no matter how good you are at it.

You are totally right... fair enough !

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It would scare a lot of players who are in favorable contract situations (like say Anton Volchenkov). Also losing your job is scary no matter how good you are at it.

Scares me as a Devils fan. If all contracts are voided, kiss goodbye Larsson, Henrique, Zajac, Josefson. And that's if you're optimistic.

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Something that absurd would be the nail in the coffin for me as a fan of this league.

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Scares me as a Devils fan. If all contracts are voided, kiss goodbye Larsson, Henrique, Zajac, Josefson. And that's if you're optimistic.

All contracts will not be voided, nor does the league even want that as an outcome. It's a clear scare tactic. The whole suit is a joke, as was aptly pointed out by multiple journalists - the league has constantly been trying to end run around Fehr and/or break the union, and now it thinks the players must have a union. It needs a players union - but it will only take one that's broken and willing to sign any deal it hands over.

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the league has constantly been trying to end run around Fehr and/or break the union, and now it thinks the players must have a union. It needs a players union - but it will only take one that's broken and willing to sign any deal it hands over.

Yeah the more I read about this the more I'm convinced that we may be witnessing the end of big sports players unions. The NFL players definitely would be better off without a players' union. They have the worst CBA by far and their league makes insane money. The NFL will easily support 32 teams and entertain fans even in a world without a salary cap or even maybe an NFL draft.

The NHL I'm not as sure because the stability and rules of the CBA helps ensure 30 NHL teams can function and makes the product more entertaining for fans, I'm not sure what that impact would be on league revenues and the warm weather teams, if the big revenue teams just pay for the best players and the best young prospects. Regardless if it works for the NFL other unions will probably follow suit, or maybe the NHL will make concessions next CBA expiration to ensure the union (and salary cap / draft process) still exists.

In any case we could very well be seeing the last time the big 4 pro sports operate under a CBA.

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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I think the reason why unions will persist even though it's been argued convincingly that they are superfluous and ultimately hurt players (at this point - no doubt they made huge strides in the 70s and 80s towards getting players fair compensation) is because players in a union are incentivized to have one while players not currently in the NHL are incentivized to not have one. Top draft picks would get huge money. Meanwhile rank and file types would get much less.

Also the stability of a CBA keeps municipal governments handing out money to sports teams, I'm not sure that would be the case if teams picked up stakes (like they would have to if the union became decertified). But you can see why NBA owners changed their tune when the players disclaimed.

Edited by Triumph

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