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NJDevs4978

2013 Jets Thread

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Geno Smith suffered the same fate as Sanchez the last few years in NY: an inconsistent O-line and probably the weakest corps of WR in the game and a weak running game. A young QB should not be thrown to the wolves like this.

 

Bingo! I don’t know when this new craze started of instantly playing the kid you draft, but it’s silly. For some teams it may work, depending on the level of talent in the team\player, and other various circumstances. But for other teams it’s exactly what you said; “throwing a kid to the wolves” ..without any safety net. Even Eli (the number one overall pick) sat for most of his rookie season. What’s so wrong with sitting a rookie for a season or two? Jet fans are making it sound like it’s Geno or bust for the next 4 years. Am I the only one who views that point-of-view as insane??!

Hypothetically, let’s say the Jets trade their 1st round draft pick for Roethlisberger. You’re going to tell me it would kill Geno Smith’s career? It would destroy the psyche of a 23 year-old kid, to tell him: We’re going with Big Ben.. sit for a year and learn.

 

..if that’s the case, would you even want a QB who’s that mentally fragile on your team?

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Bingo! I don’t know when this new craze started of instantly playing the kid you draft, but it’s silly. For some teams it may work, depending on the level of talent in the team\player, and other various circumstances. But for other teams it’s exactly what you said; “throwing a kid to the wolves” ..without any safety net. Even Eli (the number one overall pick) sat for most of his rookie season. What’s so wrong with sitting a rookie for a season or two? Jet fans are making it sound like it’s Geno or bust for the next 4 years. Am I the only one who views that point-of-view as insane??!

Hypothetically, let’s say the Jets trade their 1st round draft pick for Roethlisberger. You’re going to tell me it would kill Geno Smith’s career? It would destroy the psyche of a 23 year-old kid, to tell him: We’re going with Big Ben.. sit for a year and learn.

 

..if that’s the case, would you even want a QB who’s that mentally fragile on your team?

 

Things are a little different now in that the rules have changed to open up the passing game.  While it doesn't mean every rookie QB needs to have Russel Wilson's success immediately, a rookie QB needs to show some level of competence in his first season if you're going to have confidence that he's a franchise QB.  The QB also has to show improvement during the course of his first season.

 

Geno was just downright awful for a large stretch of games to the point that he looked like the worst QB in all of football, although perhaps it's unfair because the Jets gave him nothing to work with.  I'm not a scout, so I can't tell you whether his problems are correctable and whether he can be franchise QB in the next few years.  If the Jets aren't convinced of that, and they feel there's a QB available in the draft or free agency that can be better, I think they have to strike when they get the opportunity, especially if there isn't an impact player at another position available where they're drafting.  (To take an extreme example, if the Jets were in a position to draft a QB like Andrew Luck in this draft, it would be no-brainer to cut bait on Geno).    Fact is, most first round picks don't turn into much more than decent starters.  If you take a chance on a QB that fizzles out, especially now when you don't have to break the bank to sign him, it's not a giant set back.  The Vikings look like they have a bust with Christian Ponder.  But in the end, they're not really any worse for wear. 

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Tony Romo was an undrafted player.

 

Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round, 199th overall.  Patriots flipped-flopped between taking Brady or Tim Rattay with that pick, before settling on Brady.

 

Just because they've become franchise QBs now doesn't mean they were envisioned as such when they were starting out in the NFL.  Scouts and teams don't let franchise QBs go undrafted or slip to 199th.  Brady got his chance out of dumb luck (Bledsoe, who WAS considered to be the indisputable #1 guy in NE at the time, got hurt), and Romo got his shot because Bledsoe was over the hill.  Both guys clearly made the very most out of their chances, but neither guy was signed to his team with the thinking "We've got a franchise QB here."  Romo was almost cut in 2004 (Dallas had signed Vinny Testaverde and traded a 3rd-rounder for Drew Henson), but Quincy Carter was cut instead, due to allegations of substance abuse. 

 

And teams have to draft the guy they think can be their franchise QB when he's available to them, regardless of the other pieces that may or may not already be in place.  I'm not talking about the Jets specifically here (Geno Smith is a little more of a lower-risk, possible high-reward, being a mid-round 2nd rounder), but you can't pass up a guy you think can be one of the NFL's best for years to come just because the team doesn't have all of its positions filled out.  If you truly feel like your young QB can be THAT good, you can fill in the pieces around him in the next few seasons, as he develops.  You WILL get guys like WR, RB, OL...if a QB is that good, high-profile players will want to sign with a team with a young, top-tier QB.  If you're a team picking in the upper first round without a decent QB on your roster and there's a guy there you feel like will be as close to a sure thing as possible, I don't think you say, "Well, we're not ready to take a guy like that yet."  You nab him, even sit him for a year if you have to, but you don't pass him up.  Drafts are very year-to-year...I think you have to act when you get your shot at a potential top-tier QB.         

 

Romo, is probably a bad example, but he basically earned his way on the team.

 

Brady was drafted for a reason and he was forced into play (as was Flacco), but Brady had time to learn the system, as did Rogers.

 

While I agree that you have to take a shot when a player is available, you don't neccessarly have to destroy that asset before he is ready to play and also you surround him with the best opportunity to succeed.

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Problem with that reasoning is the # of rookie QB's that HAVE made an impact has multiplied in recent years.  Ryan and Flacco made the playoffs their rookie year.  So did Luck, RGIII and Wilson last year.  Even Sanchez made the playoffs as a rookie.  So the grading curve has been a bit more skewed in recent years.

 

That said, I thought Sanchez would have been best served in the long run by learning the NFL since he only had a year in college.  I didn't want to throw Geno in right away either because there just wasn't the infrastructure (players) around him to have him succeed.

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Romo, is probably a bad example, but he basically earned his way on the team.

 

Brady was drafted for a reason and he was forced into play (as was Flacco), but Brady had time to learn the system, as did Rogers.

 

While I agree that you have to take a shot when a player is available, you don't neccessarly have to destroy that asset before he is ready to play and also you surround him with the best opportunity to succeed.

 

Again, Brady was a what-the-hell, why not, it's only a 6th-rounder kind of pick.  He's made the pick look like a stroke of genius, but that's giving the Patriots too much credit for picking him.  Bledsoe was the man...on a big contract, he was only 29 years old when he got hurt...though it turned out the Pats were wrong, they thought it was the O-line that had become the problem in Bledsoe's last seasons.  It quickly became apparent that the problem was Bledsoe himself...Brady could read defenses much more quickly, and also made better decisions (Drew had a LOT of "WTF was THAT?!" decisions).  Maybe if Bledsoe had sucked for a full season, Brady would've gotten a shot, but I can tell you that the thinking was that Bledsoe was the franchise QB and was going to be for a long time, warts and all. 

 

I think it's a tough call for franchises when it comes to young QBs...I agree, of course you don't want your rookie getting sacked 70+ times and getting shell-shocked on a team with no chance to win...goes without saying (that probably ruined David Carr).  But unfortunately, most of the time you're in the position to draft franchise QBs because you're in a sorry state to begin with...which means your team has a lot of holes already.  Yeah, it's always preferable to let your crown jewel sit for a year or two as the team fills holes (hopefully on the OL)...but with some 1st-year guys enjoying some success recently, some teams (and their fanbases) are going to have trouble being patient...especially if the stopgap/temporary QB is not playing well.

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Its harder to sit rookies now because of the way the contract system is....you draft a guy you get three (maybe a 4th with an option) years to look at the guy and decide if he's worth it when it's time to pay the guy for real.....which is why most teams are tossing the rookies out there and seeing if they're worth it (especially the way QB salaries get instantly stupid in this league)....given the Jet scenario is about as no-win as it gets for a QB, but that's life in the NFL with their cap rules....

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Problem with that reasoning is the # of rookie QB's that HAVE made an impact has multiplied in recent years.  Ryan and Flacco made the playoffs their rookie year.  So did Luck, RGIII and Wilson last year.  Even Sanchez made the playoffs as a rookie.  So the grading curve has been a bit more skewed in recent years.

 

That said, I thought Sanchez would have been best served in the long run by learning the NFL since he only had a year in college.  I didn't want to throw Geno in right away either because there just wasn't the infrastructure (players) around him to have him succeed.

 

For every Ryan there is a Brandon Weedon, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, or Christian Ponder.

 

Flacco was third on our depth chart his first year, training  camp injuries got him to be our starter.  Both Ryan, Flacco and Sanchez fell into great situations because each had a strong running game so they did not get exposed to a lot of bad situations.

 

To me only Luck was really prepared to be an NFL franchise QB.    RGIII had the benefit of Albert Morris and several good WR's.

Edited by MantaRay

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For every Ryan there is a Brandon Weedon, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, or Christian Ponder.

Flacco was third on our depth chart his first year, training camp injuries got him to be our starter. Both Ryan, Flacco and Sanchez fell into great situations because each had a strong running game so they did not get exposed to a lot of bad situations.

To me only Luck was really prepared to be an NFL franchise QB. RGIII had the benefit of Albert Morris and several good WR's.

RGIII also had the benefit of the novelty of the read option/pistol offense last year.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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RGIII also had the benefit of the novelty of the read option/pistol offense last year.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

also true

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He really wasn't a very good coach.   He was handed a decent team, declared his team out of the playoffs and accidentally made it the AFC Championship game.

 

Bad timing for Rex, if he had Idzig instead of Tannenbaum he would probably had a better chance to succeed.

 

I can't see him being a HC anywhere else.

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He really wasn't a very good coach.   He was handed a decent team, declared his team out of the playoffs and accidentally made it the AFC Championship game.

 

Bad timing for Rex, if he had Idzig instead of Tannenbaum he would probably had a better chance to succeed.

 

I can't see him being a HC anywhere else.

 

I concede the Jets did have some luck getting into the playoffs in 2009, but beating superior Bengals and Chargers teams (and leading the colts at the half in the championship game) That can't be "accidental" During that stretch Rex did a great job. They went 5-1 to finish the season and then won 2 playoffs games. None of that happens by accident.

 

The 2009-2010 Jets had above average talent, but Rex probably pulled them a little further than they deserved to be.

 

The Patriots team the Jets beat in the playoffs in 2011 was on the most dominant run any Patriots team had ever been on. Rex called an amazing game and shut them down. That win told me all I needed to know about his coaching ability.

Edited by '7'

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I don't know who pinhead glazers source is, but he's more of a bombastic FOX moron than "in the know" NFL guy. I mean Clayton came out and said Rex was a goner before retracting and saying he would likely come back

 

Could be a ploy by Rex. "Word on the street" could mean anything.

 

The Jets had an awful start today. Down 10-0 that looked like it might spiral out of control (refs were pretty ridiculous on the roughing the passer call on Richardson)  but the team rallied. Rex showed a ton of fire on the sideline and the Jets definitively showed that they were going to play hard, that they wanted their coach here....and they won.

 

This team has less talent than last years 6-10, yet they've won more games and have a legit chance at 8-8. You can't fire him off this year. The Jets didn't throw up all over themselves and go 4-12

 

Geno probably played his best, most complete game as a pro.

 

Milliner for once didn't look horrible. His first career pick. Josh Gordon didn't absolutely butcher us

Edited by '7'

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Might've just been motivational talk to keep his players fighting hard. Rex is great when it comes to connecting with his team through passionate talk, and he may've just been playing the sympathy card.

As it is, they already have more wins this season than 2012. That may not be saying much, but today's game showed the front-office what Ryan means to this organization. With the team being mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, and down 10-0 against Cleveland, the Jets could've easily packed it in. That didn't happen. The Jets fought back with 17 unanswered points, and looked like a squad that was playing for their coach.

I wouldn't call it a “PR nightmare” ..but if the Jets finish 8-8 and Rex still gets fired, it'll look REALLY bad. This team wasn't picked to win more than 5 games heading into this season. If they can end the year @ .500 then extending Rex is a no brainer. It may not be a winning record.. but it's not a losing record either.

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Might've just been motivational talk to keep his players fighting hard. Rex is great when it comes to connecting with his team through passionate talk, and he may've just been playing the sympathy card.

As it is, they already have more wins this season than 2012. That may not be saying much, but today's game showed the front-office what Ryan means to this organization. With the team being mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, and down 10-0 against Cleveland, the Jets could've easily packed it in. That didn't happen. The Jets fought back with 17 unanswered points, and looked like a squad that was playing for their coach.

I wouldn't call it a “PR nightmare” ..but if the Jets finish 8-8 and Rex still gets fired, it'll look REALLY bad. This team wasn't picked to win more than 5 games heading into this season. If they can end the year @ .500 then extending Rex is a no brainer. It may not be a winning record.. but it's not a losing record either.

 

8-8 should make rex absolutely fire-proof. There is quite literally no better options out there...I don't want some unproven college coach.

 

Cowher will only walk into an ideal situation and wants too much $$$. Gruden is comfy doing commentary. Who else? Lovie Smith. Might as well keep Rex then since they're so similar.

 

I loved how he got in that Refs face after Geno was shoved out of bounds (yes he flopped but it was a legit push) finally the flag game in, but the Jets slowly took control of the game after that outburst

Edited by '7'

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Yeah if we somehow beat the Dolphins the last week of the season and knock them out there's almost no way Idzik can fire Rex...although never say never after Marty got canned in San Diego when they went 14-2.

 

Maybe the best thing about today (besides the fight the team showed) is that Dee Milliner actually looked like an NFL cornerback.

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Manish Mehta ‏@MMehtaNYDN: Source confirms an angry & riled up Rex Ryan did address his tenuous job situation to players yesterday. Part of it was motivational #nyj

 

Mehta is not very well liked, but at least he's a Jets beat guy unlike Glazer. Mehta would be more "in the know"

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None of the Jets players exactly denied it when they were asked questions about it after the game, they all no commented...doesn't take brain surgery to figure out it was indeed true that Rex said something to that effect.

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Mehta is not very well liked, but at least he's a Jets beat guy unlike Glazer. Mehta would be more "in the know"

 

..if I'm Idzik, I want to keep Rex around for another year or two, because it extends my own lease with the organization. I can continue to build my team, while flying under the radar of a head coach that takes all the blame from the media. Rex is the perfect scape-goat for Idzik.. why would he want to lose that? :noclue:

Think about it fairly.. let's hypothetically say the Jets lose to Miami, and Rex gets fired. Idzik picks his own HC, and spends a fortune in the offseason for him. He trades for top level talent for his HC, he lets him have pull in the draft. He even gets him a real QB in Jay Cutler. He builds the team that Rex always wanted. BUT.. the Jets still finish 7-9 in 2014. (or worse) Their defense which for 5 seasons has been Top 10 under Ryan, slips to 19th. What if they only make the playoffs once in a span of 5 seasons.. or worse, what if they don't make the playoffs at all!? Meanwhile, Rex Ryan goes to another team and does well. Who looks like a jerk at that point??

 

At this point, the next Jets HC (again, this is over the span of 5 seasons) would have to play 6 playoff games.. make the playoffs at least twice.. have a top 10 defense every year.. advance to 2 AFC Championships.. have only 1 losing season.. and win about 50 regular-season\postseason games altogether, to be considered an "improvement" over Ryan. Pretty lofty a resume no?

Wouldn't it make more sense to fire Rex after he REALLY fails? Like if he had a 4-12 season.. so that even if the next guy went 5-11 the following year, it's still an improvement?

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All well and good Beez, but I think Idzik wants his own guy no matter what Rex does, and to Rex and his team's credit, they've done everything they can to not make the decision a no-brainer for Idzik.   

 

Rex has made some mistakes along the way, but overall he's been pretty good, and though some of the Jet numbers this season are ugly (namely the point differential), he found ways to squeeze wins out of his team this season...more than most people thought was possible.  I said if the Jets split with the Pats and finished 8-8, then they did one hell of a job.  Well, they're one win way from pulling that off.  But I think Idzik has already made his mind up.  He'd better be pretty damned sure about the guy who's coming in next...players and fans seem to like Rex a whole lot...but let's face it, Idzik made up his mind a long time ago, and he wants Not-Rex as his coach.   

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This team has less talent than last years 6-10, yet they've won more games and have a legit chance at 8-8. You can't fire Rex off this year.

 

The one thing Rex doesn’t get enough credit for is how he’s turned back the clock on our rushing attack. In a passing league, the Jets have somehow found a way to bring ground and pound back. Only Washington, Seattle, Buffalo & Philly have rushed for more yards as a team than the Jets.

Bilal Powell, Geno Smith & Chris Ivory have rushed for nearly 1,800 yrds! I wouldn’t call it a 3-headed monster, but it certainly shows the ability in the offensive line. You always know what you’re going to get from D`Brick & Mangold, but how about Colon! Maybe the most underrated addition of the offseason for Idzik. If they find a way to upgrade @ RT & LG, we’re looking at a really good o-line for 2014.

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The one thing Rex doesn’t get enough credit for is how he’s turned back the clock on our rushing attack. In a passing league, the Jets have somehow found a way to bring ground and pound back. Only Washington, Seattle, Buffalo & Philly have rushed for more yards as a team than the Jets.

Bilal Powell, Geno Smith & Chris Ivory have rushed for nearly 1,800 yrds! I wouldn’t call it a 3-headed monster, but it certainly shows the ability in the offensive line. You always know what you’re going to get from D`Brick & Mangold, but how about Colon! Maybe the most underrated addition of the offseason for Idzik. If they find a way to upgrade @ RT & LG, we’re looking at a really good o-line for 2014.

 

Imagine how many yards Ivory and Powell could gain if you had at least one quality WR? 

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http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/10197744/antonio-cromartie-says-new-york-jets-want-end-miami-dolphins-playoff-hopes

 

"We're the better team. I felt like we were the better team then [the first Miami game this season] and, do I feel like we're the better team now? Yeah, I do. We're running the ball better, we're playing the pass a whole lot better. I think the biggest thing for us is to put it all together and win a game on the road. This is our last game of the year. We want to make sure it's their last game too!"  --Antonio Cromartie

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http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/10197744/antonio-cromartie-says-new-york-jets-want-end-miami-dolphins-playoff-hopes

"We're the better team. I felt like we were the better team then [the first Miami game this season] and, do I feel like we're the better team now? Yeah, I do. We're running the ball better, we're playing the pass a whole lot better. I think the biggest thing for us is to put it all together and win a game on the road. This is our last game of the year. We want to make sure it's their last game too!" --Antonio Cromartie

Thanks Cro. I'm sure that'll be tacked up on the 'ol bulletin board (not that the players should need any additional motivation for this game- but they have it now).

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