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NJDevs4978

2013 Jets Thread

860 posts in this topic

It's official, Barnes is a Jet signing a very team friendly contract. 900k signing bonus, 1.2 mil in year 2 and 1.2 mil in year 3.

 

re: Idzik plugging Tebow.

 

He has to, if you're trying to trade he guy you have to make it look like he is a commodity of value even if he isn't. The Jets can cut Tebow and save on the salary cap, but that's a last resort. What they're trying to do now is unload the salary in a trade and get a low pick for him

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Somewhat OT, I'm not as resistent to sabermetrics in football as I am in baseball or hockey, I don't know why.  Maybe in the case of baseball, that sport's always been dependent on regular statistics for so long, and I think some of the new age stats certainly have merit but others are just stats for the sake of having different stats imo.  Hockey, there's just too many different variables from game to game and team to team for me to take sabermetrics seriously at this point.

 

Maybe it's because the NFL isn't as dependent on stats as the other two sports are to start with.  Especially with guards and nose tackles, who has 'normal' stats for those guys anyway? 

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Somewhat OT, I'm not as resistent to sabermetrics in football as I am in baseball or hockey, I don't know why. Maybe in the case of baseball, that sport's always been dependent on regular statistics for so long, and I think some of the new age stats certainly have merit but others are just stats for the sake of having different stats imo. Hockey, there's just too many different variables from game to game and team to team for me to take sabermetrics seriously at this point.

Maybe it's because the NFL isn't as dependent on stats as the other two sports are to start with. Especially with guards and nose tackles, who has 'normal' stats for those guys anyway?

Most of the advanced stats in football are ridiculous. Maybe QBR means something, but otherwise you really need to use your eyes and common sense.

They're shaky enough in hockey.

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Most of the advanced stats in football are ridiculous. Maybe QBR means something, but otherwise you really need to use your eyes and common sense.

They're shaky enough in hockey.

 

You do have a point there. The bigtime playmakers (perhaps in hockey they would be play "drivers" or whatever it's called) are very obvious to the naked eye. Brandon Marshall, Dez, Brady, Megatron etc.

 

However in the NFL a lot of stats can be compiled in garbage time. Yards, sacks, TD's...when teams just flat out stop playing and try to run the clock out. In hockey it's tough to rack up garbage points.

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Also, Jets seem to be interested in Darrius Heyward-Bey. He had a good season in 2011 under Sanjay Lal, our current WR coach. Seems like a natural fit. Still young, untapped potential, and a coach that had him going in the right direction. They should sign him

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You do have a point there. The bigtime playmakers (perhaps in hockey they would be play "drivers" or whatever it's called) are very obvious to the naked eye. Brandon Marshall, Dez, Brady, Megatron etc.

 

However in the NFL a lot of stats can be compiled in garbage time. Yards, sacks, TD's...when teams just flat out stop playing and try to run the clock out. In hockey it's tough to rack up garbage points.

 

The big difference between football and the other major sports in the US is that coaching and supporting cast is much more important than in any of the other sports.  For example, before he got to New England, Wes Welker was a pretty good player on the Dolphins but nothing spectacluar.  When he went to NE, he didn't all of the sudden grow into his body, put on more muscle or anything like that.  He played in a system that would make any quick slot receiver put up monster numbers and be a nightmare for opposing defenses.  If he went to any other team besides the Broncos, or maybe Green Bay, I bet there would be a huge drop off in his numbers and he'd be much less noticeable on the field.

 

You could say the same things even about most QBs.  Do you think that Brady or even Montana would even be perennial Pro Bowlers had they been thrown into the fire playing for the 2001 Texans?  Frankly, I don't even know if they would have lasted as starters for all that long.  (A conversation for another day, but that's why I'll always say Peyton Manning is better than Brady and Montana, in that he was thrown into the fire immediately, and could take an expansion team with mediocre coaching and turn them into a Super Bowl contender.  The Niners won a Super Bowl and were perennial contenders when Montana left, and the Patriots finished 10-6 with a mediocre backup in Matt Cassell) 

 

In football, you really have to use your eyes.  A lot of what Vince Wilfork does will not show up on any stat sheet that I can think of.  Watch a game though, and you'll know how good he is. 

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Daniel, what you're forgetting about the Patriots re:  Brady...in Belichick's first 18 games (with Bledsoe as the starting QB), the Pats went 5-13, and were looking every bit like a team that should go 5-13.  It didn't look like they were going to improve significantly anytime soon.  An informal poll of GMs said, going into the 2001-02 season, that the Patriots would be the least likely team to win a Super Bowl in the next five years.  Brady definitely had training wheels on when he came in for an injured Bledsoe that first season (Brady's second in the NFL), but he was a huge reason why the Patriots suddenly went from a team that looked like they were going to have a rough time for a few years to a three-time Super Bowl winner.  The biggest difference was his ability to read defenses...Bledsoe was slow in this regard.  When Bledsoe was the starting QB in Belichick's tenure, the feeling was that the Pats' offensive line needed serious re-tooling before the Pats could contend.  When Brady took over, suddenly, just like that, the line was no longer an issue. 

 

Re:  getting "thrown into the fire"...Brady was a 6th-round pick who was never supposed to have gotten the shot that he did.  He only got one because Bledsoe was injured.  Even though Bledsoe could be a maddening player (especially with his annual seasonal second-half dropoffs), almost to a fan, anyone who supported NE at the time thought he gave the team the best chance to win.  Not one NE fan thought the team would be better off when Brady first came into that game against the Jets...how could we?  One guy was picked 199th overall and was a complete unknown, the guy who got hurt was a 1st-overall and had had some success.  Brady DID get thrown into the fire, and helped a team that NO ONE thought had even a remote chance of winning Super Bowl do just that. 

 

As for Manning, like Bledsoe, he was picked #1 overall.  With pedigrees like theirs, guys like them are always going to get thrown into the fire...QBs picked that high are only picked as such because they are projected long-term franchise QBs.  That's how it goes.  When you're a #1 overall drafted in the first round and you're a QB, chances are very high you're going to start right off the bat.  When you're a 6th-rounder and 198 guys are chosen before you, and the guy playing ahead of you is considered to be the franchise (as Bledsoe was at that time, flaws and all), it's going to take either 1) that guy playing so badly that the coach doesn't have a choice but to give the backup a shot, or 2) that guy getting hurt and leaving his coach with no other choice.  Brady getting a shot was never going to be in Brady's hands...he needed something to break his way, and when Bledsoe was hurt, he got that break.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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Brady is a great example of working hard to prepare for when the moment hits.

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Daniel, what you're forgetting about the Patriots re:  Brady...in Belichick's first 18 games (with Bledsoe as the starting QB), the Pats went 5-13, and were looking every bit like a team that should go 5-13.  It didn't look like they were going to improve significantly anytime soon.  An informal poll of GMs said, going into the 2001-02 season, that the Patriots would be the least likely team to win a Super Bowl in the next five years.  Brady definitely had training wheels on when he came in for an injured Bledsoe that first season (Brady's second in the NFL), but he was a huge reason why the Patriots suddenly went from a team that looked like they were going to have a rough time for a few years to a three-time Super Bowl winner.  The biggest difference was his ability to read defenses...Bledsoe was slow in this regard.  When Bledsoe was the starting QB in Belichick's tenure, the feeling was that the Pats' offensive line needed serious re-tooling before the Pats could contend.  When Brady took over, suddenly, just like that, the line was no longer an issue. 

 

Re:  getting "thrown into the fire"...Brady was a 6th-round pick who was never supposed to have gotten the shot that he did.  He only got one because Bledsoe was injured.  Even though Bledsoe could be a maddening player (especially with his annual seasonal second-half dropoffs), almost to a fan, anyone who supported NE at the time thought he gave the team the best chance to win.  Not one NE fan thought the team would be better off when Brady first came into that game against the Jets...how could we?  One guy was picked 199th overall and was a complete unknown, the guy who got hurt was a 1st-overall and had had some success.  Brady DID get thrown into the fire, and helped a team that NO ONE thought had even a remote chance of winning Super Bowl do just that. 

 

As for Manning, like Bledsoe, he was picked #1 overall.  With pedigrees like theirs, guys like them are always going to get thrown into the fire...QBs picked that high are only picked as such because they are projected long-term franchise QBs.  That's how it goes.  When you're a #1 overall drafted in the first round and you're a QB, chances are very high you're going to start right off the bat.  When you're a 6th-rounder and 198 guys are chosen before you, and the guy playing ahead of you is considered to be the franchise (as Bledsoe was at that time, flaws and all), it's going to take either 1) that guy playing so badly that the coach doesn't have a choice but to give the backup a shot, or 2) that guy getting hurt and leaving his coach with no other choice.  Brady getting a shot was never going to be in Brady's hands...he needed something to break his way, and when Bledsoe was hurt, he got that break.

 

We're veering off topic, which is undoubtedly my fault, but all I'll say is, everything you're saying about Brady applies to Kurt Warner.  (I'm trying to find it, but I remember there was an espn the magazine page 2 mock of covers you weren't likely to see in three months titled "battering ram" with Kurt Warner after Trent Green went down in the preseason).  And Kurt Warner was a few points from being the only starting QB to win the Super Bowl with two teams, but also got benched by the Giants. 

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We're veering off topic, which is undoubtedly my fault, but all I'll say is, everything you're saying about Brady applies to Kurt Warner.  (I'm trying to find it, but I remember there was an espn the magazine page 2 mock of covers you weren't likely to see in three months titled "battering ram" with Kurt Warner after Trent Green went down in the preseason).  And Kurt Warner was a few points from being the only starting QB to win the Super Bowl with two teams, but also got benched by the Giants. 

 

Yeah, that was pretty much my point...there are guys who have the physical ability in all sports, as we've seen, but for a number of reasons get overlooked and only get the chance to show what they can do when Plan A goes horribly wrong.  

 

Sanchez was a Plan A guy...where he was drafted made that a certainty, that he was going to get multiple years to prove himself, no matter what, and get to do it right away.  The Plan B guys don't enjoy that luxury...they have to work at it and hope they can shine when the chance comes their way.  Not implying that Plan A guys don't work just as hard...Peyton Manning is a testament to that...just saying Plan B types really have to not only work their asses off to get a look, but they need some breaks (often one that's unfortunate for a teammate) to get a shot.

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Brady is a great example of working hard to prepare for when the moment hits.

 

Absolutely.  But my question boils down to whether guys like Brady would have succeeded, and to what extent they would have succeeded, had they essentially had to start from scratch whenever they got their chance.  We know for a fact that Manning did.  And we have a before and after shot of what happened to the Colts when he wasn't playing, and how well the Patriots did when Brady missed a season.  In my mind that's what makes Manning the better QB than Brady and Montana (not including guys before my time like Unitas). 

 

NOTE: I'm creating a new thread devoted to discussing who the better player is.

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..the most unwanted guy in Tennessee.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9078603/chris-johnson-questions-tennessee-titans-signing-shonn-greene

"I have never been a big fan of the two-back system, so I don't know how we plan on using him. (Greene) I'm not afraid of competition, but I was thinking we'd maybe get a draft pick for the other back. You don't give a guy that kind of money to be just a goal-line guy in tough-yardage situations. I don't mind a guy getting a carry or two. But if I am the main guy and it is supposed to be my team, it shouldn't be an issue. At the end of the day, I think there's a chance it could turn into some controversy, but I am hoping for the best. So, we'll see what happens." --Chris Johnson

http://m.nfl.com/news/0ap1000000153116/javon-ringer-why-did-titans-add-shonn-greene/

"Shonn's a good running back, but when he signed I said: 'Dang, some guys never even got a chance to play, so why add someone like that?' All this talk about needing another running back to help C.J. kind of made me upset. I'm like, 'Man, they had some good running backs behind C.J. and they just never even really got a chance.' And because we were not able to play, it made it look like C.J. didn't have any help. C.J. had help, but they never used it. It's frustrating." --Javon Ringer

..have fun Shonn! And all Titans fans in general for that matter, who'll punch their walls watching 3rd and 1.. become 4th and 1.

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This is good that CJ is pissed, as he needs to step it up.   SInce he signed his contract a few years ago, he has had to battle injuries and teams keying on him.   This could be a win for CJ and the Titans in the long run, but with no QB this is going to take awhile.

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How is Tebow still on the Jets?

 

If they cut him they free up cap space, what they're trying to do now is legitimize him so they can trade him. They are trying to trade him for anything...bag of pucks as the NHL analogy goes

 

Once they exhaust this...he'll get cut

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If they cut him they free up cap space, what they're trying to do now is legitimize him so they can trade him. They are trying to trade him for anything...bag of pucks as the NHL analogy goes

 

Once they exhaust this...he'll get cut

 

I'm starting to suspect that this is all part of Idzik's let it burn strategy.  The Jets can finish 0-16 this year, and Idzik's job is safe.  Rex brought in Tebow and huffed and puffed about how good he could make him.  From Idzik's point of view, let's see if another year proves Rex to be wrong.  If it turns out to be the disaster it was last year, Idzik will still be the GM with a high first round draft pick.  Or maybe, Morningweig is able to get some value out of Tebow, which might be possible considering the OC was an incomptent boob last year.  If he does, Idzik comes out looking like a genius.  Win-win for Idzik.

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Does Tebow have bonus coming at a certain date?  Usually players get cut before this is due.

Jacksonville was originally his destination, but the new GM said, they are not interested (I would assume if the Jets have no takers, Tebow is a Jag, just for ticket sales).

 

I never bought into Rex wanting Tebow.  This was a Woody move and Rex was basically mouthing the script.

 

But again, with a real OC this year, it might change things.

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And to top off my **** mood from the Devils game even more, apparently the Revis trade is officially done with the Bucs.  No word yet on what we're getting back.  So tired of this team trading its best players year after year.



lol the deal is apparently a first this year (the 13th overall) and a fourth rounder next year which 'might' turn into a third :argh:

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Not exactly what I wanted...wouldnt of done it for less than a 2013 1st and 2014 2nd

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The shocking thing to me is that there was no guaranteed money in Revis' new deal. 6 years $96 mil straight up, $16 mil per season.

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The shocking thing to me is that there was no guaranteed money in Revis' new deal. 6 years $96 mil straight up, $16 mil per season.

How does non guaranteed money work with the cap? Is there no cap hit once he gets cut?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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I think this is actually a move in the right direction for the Jets in the long run.

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I think this is actually a move in the right direction for the Jets in the long run.

 

They'd lose with him just the same as they'll lose without him, so it had to be done.  And actually, the secondary was not the Jets' problem last year.  Rather, a lackluster offense. 

 

If I'm Idzik, I'd consider swinging for the fences and drafting Austin and Eiffert, if they're available.     

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They'd lose with him just the same as they'll lose without him, so it had to be done.  And actually, the secondary was not the Jets' problem last year.  Rather, a lackluster offense. 

 

If I'm Idzik, I'd consider swinging for the fences and drafting Austin and Eiffert, if they're available.     

 

Are they RB's? or O-LInemen?  Because those are the Jests biggest needs...aside from WR, TE, and Linebackers

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Are they RB's? or O-LInemen? Because those are the Jests biggest needs...aside from WR, TE, and Linebackers

Austin is a WR in the Percy Harvin mold except faster, actually faster than Chris Johnson.

Eiffert is a TE. 6'6" fast and big.

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