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nmigliore

Official 2013 New York Mets Thread

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Wow...is Dice-K garbage or what? This guy just doesn't have major league stuff anymore

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Wow...is Dice-K garbage or what? This guy just doesn't have major league stuff anymore

 

Yeah, he blows, and the results are predictable.  If Sandy wanted to go the "has a pulse, why not" route, he could've brought any one of the zilches currently pitching at AAA.  Dice K is going to be a painful watch indeed.

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Yikes...I have a feeling a swoon is coming, though as long as the pitching recovers, the Mets shouldn't fall completely apart.  I don't want Terry back, but I think the Mets are considering it...I think if he keeps the Mets from collapsing in September, he probably keeps his job. 

 

Saw "42" yesterday.  Not sure if anyone else here saw it.  It covers the time in Jackie Robinson's life from when he was playing for the Kansas City Monarchs (Negro Leagues), his one full minor league season with the Dodgers' Montreal Royals, to his first season with the Dodgers in 1947.

 

Sadly, the coolest thing about it is the CGI recreations of Ebbets Field, the Polo Grounds, and some other old-time ballparks, though I doubt those stadiums looked quite as "clean" as their CGI counterparts.  But the rest of the movie plays like a higher-budget, made-for-TV movie...something just seems to be missing.  Harrison Ford as Branch Rickey didn't really work...it felt like a characature, and it felt like Ford was acting, and not becoming (this is actually the first time in his career that Ford was portraying a real person, and the results were not good).  This made his Rickey performance feel very forced. 

 

As for the rest...it's typical Hollywood at its worst.  They take dramatic license and make up things for effect (there's a scene where Ben Chapman, the Phillies' manager at the time, goes so overboard with racial taunting that one of Robinson's teammates, while still on the fence on whether or not he wants to play with Robinson, stands up to Chapman on Robinson's behalf.  Robinson is then shown as being so incensed over Chapman's jabs that he goes into the dugout stairwell and smashes his bat into splinters.  While Chapman's seemingly endless barrage of racist insults was quite real, the bat incident never happened...even the director admitted this.  So why put it in there?).  There's other inaccuracies too, and all of them seem to be put in there to create over-the-top sentimental moments...which to me is the sign of a weak director.  Robinson's story was compelling enough without fake embellishments and fictional moment shoehorning. 

 

And sadly, at the end of the movie, we get a quick "What became of" various players and others.  It is mentioned that Dixie Walker, Robinson's teammate and one of the most staunch opponents of baseball integration, was traded to Pittsburgh after the conclusion of the '47 season (Pittsburgh is made out to be baseball Siberia in this film, the last place any Dodger would ever want to play).  And that's it...basically, once a bad guy or racist, always a bad guy.  The movie doesn't show that Walker actually started warming up to Robinson in real life as the season went on, and that Walker would go on to manage integrated International League teams in the '50s, and admitted that he was deeply sorry about his behavior back in '47, and had become a changed man in time, as the Jim Crow Era ended.  Right or wrong, quite sadly many of these players who come off as one-note bigots were merely products of their environment and upbringing...there's a scene in Cincinnati where a young boy, after hearing his father and those around him spewing racial epithets at Robinson, reluctantly parttakes.  It's one of the better scenes in the film, and very much one of the most disturbing.  Admittedly, this is what cracks me up about old-timers talking about the "good ol' days".  Yeah, the glorious Jim Crow Era, where fans dressed up in suits could freely spout off the most vile of racial slurs towards black ballplayers...yep, everything was just so much better back then.  Please.      

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Didn't see the movie, heard poor reviews of it. 

 

Was at the game yesterday; game got ugly in the 9th but the d'Arnaud homer was fun and they gave out Seaver bobbleheads (main reason I bought tickets). 

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Didn't see the movie, heard poor reviews of it. 

 

Was at the game yesterday; game got ugly in the 9th but the d'Arnaud homer was fun and they gave out Seaver bobbleheads (main reason I bought tickets). 

 

It's definitely disappointing overall.  I'm hoping someone else takes a shot at this one in 10 years or so...there's a great story there, but it wasn't told very well in "42"...it wasn't nearly as compelling as it should have been. 

 

1996's "Soul of the Game" (starring Blair Underwood as Jackie Robinson, Delroy Lindo as Satchel Paige, Mykelti Williamson as Josh Gibson, and Edward Herrman as Branch Rickey) is a MUCH better watch.  It doesn't cover any of Robinson's Dodger career, but chronicles Rickey's courtship of Robinson and black players and his desire to integrate, and Robinson's time in the Negro League.  This film also captures the "barnstorming" aspect of the Negro League, and touches on how some black players were plenty ticked that Robinson was the first (he was not the Negro League's best player, and many players thought Paige and Gibson should've been first, but the film shows why both were passed over:  Paige was already in his 40s, and Gibson had mental and substance abuse issues...Gibson was just 36 years when he died of a brain embolism, though this is not shown in the movie).  Though this movie has a lot of fiction and omissions (Gibson and Robinson were not known to have ever met, though the film shows them being friends, and Paige is portrayed as a loyal husband and not the womanizer he truly was), it's a good look about how tough life was in the Negro League, and how badly those players wanted to get to the majors the minute the opportunity presented itself.    

 

Re:  yesterday's game and the rest of the season, this is the kind of stuff to focus on:  d'Arnaud having good moments, etc.  I'd consider shutting Harvey down ahead of schedule...his last three starts:  18.1 IP, 27 H, 8 ER, 2 BB, 13 K.  I know the 13 hits allowed in his last start skews things a bit, but he looks like a guy who might be wearing down...not a surprise, as I feel that Collins flat-out abused him at times this season.  If that means Torres took his starts starting in, say, early September, fine...Sandy killed any chance the Mets had at building momentum towards a good September when he signed a complete stiff in Dice K to start every fifth day.  So now I say every move the Mets make from here on out should err on the side of caution.  If Wright isn't 100%, don't bring him back.  If Harvey is tiring, pull him out of the rotation.     

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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I think my favorite baseball film is Sugar. Love that movie. Tells the story of a bonus baby out of the Dominican and how he adjusts to life in the US and the rough road of minor league baseball (it's not a documentary, it's an actual movie with actors, to be clear). It's a great film, highly recommend it. 

Edited by nmigliore

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I'll check it out. 

 

Definitely check out Gooden's memoir when you get the chance (Doc:  a Memoir).  Piazza's book is pretty good too.  Ball Four will ALWAYS be timeless.   

 

Avoid Matt McCarthy's Odd Man Out:  A Year On the Mound With a Minor League Misfit.  As I read it, a lot of it sounded scripted and made-up...as it turns out, my instincts were right.  Box scores and transaction reports show that stories that McCarthy tried to pass off as fact couldn't have possibly happened.  McCarthy was confronted with the inaccuracies, and his rebuttal was to deny, deny, deny...he would admit to no wrong-doing.

 

An article about McCarthy's less-than-truthful storytelling, and how some players and others were hurt and angered by it:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/sports/baseball/03book.html?_r=0

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Yeah there are tons of Met books I have to get too. Still haven't picked up Dickey's book, there is Howie's book, Big Mike's, Doc's... there is also Jonah Keri's new book about the Expos coming out soon (big fan of his writing; his first book, The Extra 2%, is a great book about the rise of the Rays' franchise under Stuart Sternberg and Andrew Friedman). 

Edited by nmigliore

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There's two good books about the 1962 Mets (Tales from the 1962 New York Mets) by Janet Paskin and the 1986 Mets (The Bad Guys Won).  Most Met fans are familiar with the '86 team's hard-partying ways (the stories have been passed on and repeated often), but it's still an entertaining read.   

 

It's so hard to believe that not one but TWO baseball teams left this area, in the same year no less (1957).  Even sadder is the fact that, with the Dodgers, it really seemed to be preventable, if not for Robert Moses being such a stubborn "highway or my way" guy.  But all things considered, it was probably a good thing for baseball, with two teams not only making their way west, but keeping their rivalry intact.  It would've been a cool time to be NY baseball fan in the 40s and 50s, having three teams, each with their own building and identity, to watch.  All those Brooklyn-NY subway series...1958 must've felt like such a strange year for New York, NL fans.  Losing TWO teams in one year?!

 

Don't know if you've ever seen a model of what O'Malley had in mind for the Dodgers' new building had Moses helped him secure the land (it was domed), but man it seems like that place would've been a disaster...one of those "Cutting edge for the time, but what the hell were we THINKING?!"

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Montero made a start yesterday...went 5.1 IP, allowed 6 hits and two ER, 1 BB, struck out five.  His last two starts have been a little less impressive (10.1 IP, 14 H, 4 ER, 3 BB, 6 K), but he's pitched to a 1.88 ERA overall in his last 6 AAA starts, and hasn't allowed more than 2 ER in any of them.  His numbers in those starts have been very Montero-like:  38.1 IP, 30 H, 8 ER, 9 BB, 36 K. 

 

deGrom's last start was a rough one:  6 ER in 5 IP.  His overall numbers for St. Lucie, Binghamton and Vegas are pretty meh:  145.2 IP, 165 H, 72 ER, 45 BB, 119 K, and he's 25 years old...next season is going to be a bit of a make-it-or-break-it year for him.  I'm guessing he's either going to be a reliever here, or packaged with others in a trade for 2014 offensive help.  He's done nothing but start in the minors, but I don't see how he gets that opportunity as a Met in 2014, unless a lot of arms get hurt.  Mejia and Montero have to be ahead of him, though it's just so hard to tell who's going to be here when spring training begins.  Hef's injury helps deGrom's cause somewhat...he'll have one less arm to compete with.       

 

Syndergaard makes his first start tonight since August 16.  He is currently on an organization-mandated five-inning max limit. 

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Sometimes there are no words.

 

Suffice it to say that Sandy's not in much of a position to trade away pitching.

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Collins treated Harvey like a piece of meat. 

 

I'm incensed at him for now

 

now granted, these things have happened to a lot of young pitchers. I just wish Terry wasn't so damn abusive with him.


Sometimes there are no words.

 

Suffice it to say that Sandy's not in much of a position to trade away pitching.

 

nah. This team will pick up a free agent bat this offseason. Rework the pen again, but Syndegaard and Monteiro are going nowhere.

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Collins treated Harvey like a piece of meat. 

 

I'm incensed at him for now

 

now granted, these things have happened to a lot of young pitchers. I just wish Terry wasn't so damn abusive with him.

 

Don't disagree at all.  I'm more depressed than angry at the moment...but I have been thinking about all those unneccesary 115-pitch games throughout the year, and also how could Harvey have pitched normally over the weekend then suddenly come up with this tear?  Was he pitching with it through several starts?

Edited by NJDevs4978

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Well this is why pitchers are the worst. 

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Don't disagree at all.  I'm more depressed than angry at the moment...but I have been thinking about all those unneccesary 115-pitch games throughout the year, and also how could Harvey have pitched normally over the weekend then suddenly come up with this tear?  Was he pitching with it through several starts?

 

Alderson mentioned that Harvey has been getting treatment on his forearm for quite some time. Maybe it was relatively minor at the point, but shame on them for pushing him. Shutting him down for a month was what needed to happen.

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I seriously can't believe this though. I couldn't be more ticked off at this fvcking sport. Thank God the season is over. fvck.

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He should just have the damn surgery now and get it out of the way, I don't want to hear the Mets say "Oh it's not torn enough, it can still heal, we can avoid surgery" because then it will heal, he will lose velocity, it will tear again, and then he'll miss even more time.

 

Have the surgery as quickly as possible

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It's easy to kill Terry right now, it really is, and there's a part of me that wants to, but nmig said it perfectly...it's such a crapshoot with pitchers these days, and all of the protection/babying in the world seems to make no difference (not that Harvey was being protected/babied).  But yeah, not sure why they kept pushing Harvey if there were issues with his health. 

 

At this point, much as it sucks, I think to be safe, you have to plan as though he's never coming back.  If he can come back and be 90% of what he was, great.  If not, then the team is protected.  But I don't see how the Mets can trade any starting arms now:

 

Wheeler

Gee

Niese

Mejia

Montero

Syndergaard

deGrom

 

These are the candidates I see for the starting rotation in 2014.  I'd say the top three are locked, as long as they - knock on fvcking wood - stay healthy (hardly a guarantee in both Gee and Niese's cases).  Mejia, who knows.  Suddenly the depth seems, well, a lot less deep.  The Mets might actually have to ADD a veteran arm. 

 

I'm with you 7, no friggin' limbo on this one.  Make a decision sooner rather than later.

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I can't even look forward to this offseason anymore. At this point they should just tank again and go after the 2015 class. This team is going nowhere next year anywho.

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I can't even look forward to this offseason anymore. At this point they should just tank again and go after the 2015 class. This team is going nowhere next year anywho.

 

I can't do that.  There's still a lot of good arms in the system.  Next year is still a good development year...hopefully Montero sticks, and Syndergaard starts the season in AAA and gets called up in late May-early June. 

 

This is as brutal a kick to the balls as it gets, but there's still reasons for optimism.   

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Very sad to see the Mets as lifeless and disinterested as they looked today. Haven't lost 5 in a row in a while. The Phillies are a bad team...hopefully Terry can turn it around before it turns into 9-10 in a row like we've seen in past years

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I think from here on out, you've got to ignore the wins and losses 7.  This team just took a big punch to the gut.  Now it's about individual performances.

 

Check out these numbers for Zack Wheeler in his last four starts:

 

25.2 IP, 24 H, 7 ER, 1 HR, 5 BB, 28 K, 2.45 ERA 

 

You'd like to see the pitch counts come down (he averaged 110 pitches per start in those four), but at least he's cut down on the walks.  Hopefully it's a sign of things to come, and not a random isolated sample of improved control.  But I like the way this last start went for him...almost had a "don't forget about me" feel to it.  I guess for continuity's sake, the Mets now will pass Harvey's sh!tty run support unto Wheeler. 

 

As bad as his numbers are, I wonder if Sandy would take a shot at Phil Hughes, for two reasons:  1) He won't cost much, and 2) He could be a bottom of the rotation guy, and could help give the Mets depth.  It's obviously not a headline move or something to get excited about, but with the Mets' starting pitching depth taking an obvious hit, this is the kind of move I could see Sandy making, to temporarily shore things up.

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Wow...Syndergaard got shelled yesterday, big-time:  3 IP, 9 H, 11 R, 9 ER, 2 BB, 5 K...he allowed 3 HRs too.  His AA ERA ballooned from 1.59 all the way to 3.00.

 

Again, he hadn't pitched since August 16...I think they had him skip a start due to innings limits, but clearly the layoff didn't help him much.  Yikes. 

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Rubin says multiple trades could go down in the next 24-48 hours, possibly involving Buck, Byrd, Feliciano, maybe some others.

 

I think someone forgot to tell Sandy this is August. A guy like Buck can pass through waivers, so that's not a big deal, but Byrd? There's no stopping a non-contender from claiming him just to block him from going to a contender.The Mets have next to no leverage in trade talks. They'll be dealing with one team, a team that may not actually want him. Even if they did, you're haggling over 1 month of control. I'll take something over nothing, but it was so obvious a Byrd trade should've happened a month ago, not now. Buck is the only logical August waiver-trade type because of his salary. 

 

Carson, den Dekker, and Recker could all be coming up to replace who is traded. Yuck. 

Edited by nmigliore

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