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snartly

Time to wave the white flag?

102 posts in this topic

No nay never.

 

Throwing the season to get a good draft pick is the last thing any team should aim to do. We are losing games at the moment but that doesn't mean that pride should go with it.

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Says who?? This team is capable of defeating ANY opponent in the division once healthy and playing at full strength. This quitters mentality is disappointing. They're not giving up on us. We shouldn't give up on them. LGD!!!!!!!

 

Me, it's my opinion.   I feel the team has played better the last 2-3 games but the results haven't panned out.  That's the good news.  The bad news is that with 9 games remaining they need to win at least 6 of them, probably 7, to keep pace with the others.  

Of course we're still in it. But the odds are getting long.  Maybe the bad luck it at is bottom now...Perhaps when Kovy returns our system dynamics will change enough to throw off the opponents....The best hope is for a Rangers collapse including us beating them twice in the last week, to get in...Hey the Kings qualified on the last game of the season & won the championship.  

But we're still 5-14 in the last 19 games. 

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Me, it's my opinion.   I feel the team has played better the last 2-3 games but the results haven't panned out.  That's the good news.  The bad news is that with 9 games remaining they need to win at least 6 of them, probably 7, to keep pace with the others.  

Of course we're still in it. But the odds are getting long.  Maybe the bad luck it at is bottom now...Perhaps when Kovy returns our system dynamics will change enough to throw off the opponents....The best hope is for a Rangers collapse including us beating them twice in the last week, to get in...Hey the Kings qualified on the last game of the season & won the championship.  

But we're still 5-14 in the last 19 games. 

 

Started 8-1-3, then went 2-2-1. 

 

Since Feb 23, they're 5-11-6.  Three regulation wins in that span.  I'm not giving up by any stretch...all it takes is one decent burst to stay in this thing...but at the same time, 5-11-6 is really not great tonic for optimism. 

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Here's a positive: We are chasing the Islanders...the fish sticks. Tavares or not, they are still capable of stinking it up for many games in a stretch as they have for the past twenty years. I think theyll come down from their hot streak soon.

 

People keep saying that, but at least the Islanders can occasionally win a hockey game.  Just occasionally.  It'd be nice if we did it without Kovy sooner or later.  Not to mention the objects in the rear view mirror are just as close as they appear too.  They may be 'chasing' the Isles now, but one or two more losses and Philly/Buffalo/WPG-Caps will be right with them.

Part of what makes me proud to be a fan of this organisation is the never say die attitude and the fact that everyone is committed to winning. We don’t cheapen the badge on the front by tanking a season to get a good draft pick like the Penguins.

 

One of the most exciting times for me as a Devils fan was the 10-11 season where we went on the run and narrowly missed the playoffs. People at the time then were saying " oh but now we are going to have a lousy draft pick" and it was a good feeling when we won it, it was almost like a reward for not throwing in the towel.

 

 

I would rather they played hard until the end of the season and narfowly missed out, than just give up and play for the loser prize.

 

 

Agreed.  Besides, it's not as if we've done a great job developing our 'loser prize' of two seasons ago.

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People keep saying that, but at least the Islanders can occasionally win a hockey game.  Just occasionally.  It'd be nice if we did it without Kovy sooner or later.  Not to mention the objects in the rear view mirror are just as close as they appear too.  They may be 'chasing' the Isles now, but one or two more losses and Philly/Buffalo/WPG-Caps will be right with them.

 

Agreed.  Besides, it's not as if we've done a great job developing our 'loser prize' of two seasons ago.

 

Funny, re:  Larsson, I find myself wondering if he's starting to wonder if he would've been better off with a different organization, even though the one that drafted him went to the SCF in his rookie year.  Clearly still very young, and not too many NHL players have 94 NHL games under their belts at his age...but with the young guys, confidence can be so fragile...just hope his head will be OK as he heads into his real developmental years. 

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Funny, re: Larsson, I find myself wondering if he's starting to wonder if he would've been better off with a different organization, even though the one that drafted him went to the SCF in his rookie year. Clearly still very young, and not too many NHL players have 94 NHL games under their belts at his age...but with the young guys, confidence can be so fragile...just hope his head will be OK as he heads into his real developmental years.

Larsson is gonna be fine. How many 20 year olds can hang in the NHL?

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Larsson is gonna be fine. How many 20 year olds can hang in the NHL?

 

By his own admission it's not good for his confidence continually being scratched.  Or being told you can only play defensively and not develop offensively at all.

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It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to get a higher draft pick.  They seem to be snake bit this year.  Just played 3 games in a row where they dominated the other guys and lost all 3. Well, 2 1/2 anyway.

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Larsson is gonna be fine. How many 20 year olds can hang in the NHL?

 

I can't say I'm filled with worry about his situation...like I said, even if he hasn't taken the league by storm, he's got almost 100 GP at the NHL level, and he's only 20.  He's getting experience, and he hasn't been a disaster.  It's more wondering what he's thinking...the team isn't playing well this season, he's been scratched...some guys can take this stuff, realize it's part of the growing pains/development process, and get past it and even be stronger for it in the long run...for others, it can start messing with their heads and confidence, and have them questioning everything. 

 

Let us not forget that he was being talked about as a possible #1 overall, and that he's just a kid...I'm speculating of course, nothing more, but youth isn't known for their patience...and these two seasons haven't been easy for him...I just hope he's OK mentally.  It probably hasn't gone quite like he thought it would.

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Clearly you can't really waive the white flag when you're only 2 down to the 7th and 8th seeds with 9 games to go...however this season is a huge reversal of the good luck we enjoyed last season and playoffs (and no we didn't win solely on luck...but we got it when we needed it)

 

this year we have zero luck, and the games are all the same. We play well, they get a bullcrap goal 5 minutes in, we continue to outplay they, get robbed by the goalie or hit posts, they get a soft backbreaker on brodeur late in the 2nd...we get a goal to tease...they win. 

 

That is literally every game. The Boston game will be the same. 

 

The little points they pick up here and there just prolong the misery

 

We need the Rags to lose tonight and in regulation. Do you guys honestly think the luck Toronto got against us will be there against the Rags? Not a chance

 

Though I can see NYI losing to Philly on Tuesday...but that will only draw Philly 1 point behind us.

 

And how the hell are we beating Boston? We have no prayer of getting even 1 past Rask. NO SHOT

Edited by '7'

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Last year was a lucky year in that Marty was inspired to get us to the finals.

 

Without Zach we don't have the horses to do anything.   

 

I don't want to suggest we roll over, because they have played in a very spirited manner regardless of the loses, but I can't see us going very far, even if we make it.   I am happy with a higher draft pick if we dont'. 

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It may be a stupid question, but with the luck we are having, and with the results recently, maybe we should play for the better draft pick. Hate or not, this looks like a pretty deep draft, so maybe getting a star player at #5 would be better for the team in the future.

Thoughts?

Tank now??  If that is the thought process LL should have traded everything possible before the deasdline and added picks & prospects!!

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You never raise a white flag -- just embrace your role as spoiler... yeesh.  you newbie fans  ;)

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Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to stink it up for the rest of the year. Could make sure Kovy is completely healed and beta elite prospect. Everything you hear says the top 5 picks are can't miss. (Although they said the same thing about Larsson who at this point will be lucky to be a bottom pairing defenseman).

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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It is what it is.  Some guys are good at it, some guys aren't...some guys seem to have a knack for it.  Unfortunately right now the Devils' #1 guy is out, and their #2 guy is playing for another team.  We're extremely spoiled when it comes to the shootout because they were so damned good at it until this year.  Some teams have been just the opposite since '05-'06, and sadly, we're finding out how the other half lives.

 

There's a lot I don't like about the shootout, but one of the things I don't like about it is it's all luck, as far as whether your team is good at it or not.  If you have a team that has defensive or offensive issues, the GM can make a move to find a coach that can improve such issues, or upgrade the personnel to find more qualified and skilled players...same with upgrading the goalie position...the moves may or may not work out, but at least it makes sense to try to address such deficiencies.  No GM is ever bringing in a player to improve on the shootout, and as we've seen, there's players who might be almost useless otherwise, but can do well in the shootout, and vice-versa.  No GM is looking at any given player who might be able to help his team in regulation and OT, and thinking to himself, "But is he any good in the shootout?  If he's not, I might have to pass."  And unfortunately for a team like the Devils, the skills competition comes up just enough in a season like this that you can feel the effects of not being successful in them, but even with that, less than a quarter of the Devils' games have gone to a shootout, so how much time would a coach really want to spend on trying to improve on them?    

I didn't say lets go trade for someone who is good at shootouts.. It's as simple as closing out a practice with a shootout situation every day... How hard is that?  By saying well our number 1 and 2 players form last year aren't there as of today is ignorant.  We have plenty of players with the ability to get the puck in the net in that situation.  I agree with you it is about luck but its also about skill and practice.. Were not playing poker here and waiting to hit that lucky card on the River.. Now thats luck.. 10 minutes of practice and we would have made up some lost points.. If we win half of those 7 losses we are in the playoffs as of today..

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I didn't say lets go trade for someone who is good at shootouts.. It's as simple as closing out a practice with a shootout situation every day... How hard is that?  By saying well our number 1 and 2 players form last year aren't there as of today is ignorant.  We have plenty of players with the ability to get the puck in the net in that situation.  I agree with you it is about luck but its also about skill and practice.. Were not playing poker here and waiting to hit that lucky card on the River.. Now thats luck.. 10 minutes of practice and we would have made up some lost points.. If we win half of those 7 losses we are in the playoffs as of today..

 

I never said you did say to go trade for a shootout performer.

 

How do YOU possibly know what DeBoer is or isn't doing in practices?  So it's that simple...all a coach has to do is schedule 10 minutes of practice on the shootout, and it will lead to increased point totals in shootouts.  Thank God you have it all figured out...if only DeBoer was as astute!  Maybe the Devils would've won ALL of their shootouts this season! 

 

So I guess last year, when the Devils went 12-4 in the shootout, DeBoer was scheduling in those 10 minute shooout practices then.  But I guess this season he isn't, since apparently it's all about practicing it more...10 minutes of practice, and BAM!  Increased shootout success will result.  That's all it takes!  But I'm ignorant.  fvcking priceless! 

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I never said you did say to go trade for a shootout performer.

 

How do YOU possibly know what DeBoer is or isn't doing in practices?  So it's that simple...all a coach has to do is schedule 10 minutes of practice on the shootout, and it will lead to increased point totals in shootouts.  Thank God you have it all figured out...if only DeBoer was as astute!  Maybe the Devils would've won ALL of their shootouts this season! 

 

So I guess last year, when the Devils went 12-4 in the shootout, DeBoer was scheduling in those 10 minute shooout practices then.  But I guess this season he isn't, since apparently it's all about practicing it more...10 minutes of practice, and BAM!  Increased shootout success will result.  That's all it takes!  But I'm ignorant.  fvcking priceless! 

Clearly you aren't up on what they do during practice.  They havent practiced the shootout once this season.. And last year they did smarty pants... Tom Gulitti talks about everything they do during practice, do yourself a  favor and follow him.. So lets see practiced shootout and went 12-4, didnt't practice and are 2-7.. You sound like a moron saying that practice wouldnt help.. last time I checked 10 > than 0...

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No they did 'not' practice the shootout last year, that's why Pete was stubborn about doing it this year. And I do follow TG.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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The better option is win in fvckING REGULATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AGH!

Edited by ATLL765

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I could have sworn they did... Maybe my dreams are getting mixed up with reality.. regardless that's last season.. we should be practicing it now.. No reason we don't as it won't hurt anything.. My point is those are crucial points left on the board..

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You know what... I have been so angry the last 3 weeks that I have attacked a few of you guys... I am new to this forum and hope to add as much as possible to the threads.. Being negative isn't my style, just can't stand the way everything has been managed and executed to this point.  I actually enjoyed a few drinks last night and watched Mad Men and Game of Thrones over the ending of the game.. I can watch those shows on demand, chose not to last night.. I am just depressed watching us continuously dominate and not score.. Its the same thing every night.. Just like the shootout this year...

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Not to break up the conversation but I'm disappointed in the team like everyone else. Worst thing about it is they do look like they're trying, and trying hard, but the scoring talent just isn't there. As long as they keep at it I'll keeep watching them lose, what else can you do?

 

I do think Marty should retire though (first time I've ever said that or felt that), and so should Moose, and we should grab someone in the offseason like Miller (maybe?) and let the kids back him up until they are ready. We need some wholesale changes, and there's no time like the present.

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No they did 'not' practice the shootout last year, that's why Pete was stubborn about doing it this year.

 

And in general, I still maintain that coaches don't spend that much time on it.  The Devils have enough trouble trying to win games.  I would think DeBoer and pretty much every NHL coach is more concerned with the 60-65 minutes that are guaranteed to be played in EVERY game, than trying to get better in a skills comp that may come up 25% of the time.  The Devils have plenty to work on, as far as regulation goes. 

 

@1Guy3Cups...I don't know if 10 minutes or not would help, and you don't either...it is far too simplistic (which is often the problem with fanspeak) to suggest that 10 minutes of practice would automatically lead to more points.  Like I said, I think some guys have a knack/talent for it, others don't, and there's a lot of luck involved.  And it's not just on the Devils' shooters...Marty has a .455 save% in shootouts this season (he's at .706 for his career), Hedberg is at .625 this season (.752 career).  They're both vets who have been in a lot of shootouts (especially Marty), and Marty studies shooter tendencies as hard as anyone.  As far as shooters go, Kovy is a great example of how there's a lot of luck with this...before last season he wasn't that great at it, then all of sudden, he's damned near automatic. 

 

The other problem with practicing the shootout to an extent is you're never going to face the goalie you're practicing against, and you're never going to face the shooters you're trying to stop in practice.  Obviously this is true of ALL aspects of practices, but if anything, if you're going to try to improve shootout performance, I'm guessing you're best off trying to watch some tapes to try to figure out what moves beat certain goalies, etc.  But it all goes back to the same thing:  shootouts just don't come up enough that coaches should spend much time on it, when there's other, more important issues that need to be addressed.  A lot of shootout abilities just seem to be God-given...I don't know how much better practicing will make a "meh" kind of shootout player perform. 

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