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LucifersDog

Devils first line players

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How many presently active, not on IR, first line players do the Devils have? I say one Elias.

How many did we have last season? I say three, Elias, Kovy and Parise.

 

How many presently active 2nd line players do the Devils have? I say NONE, maybe Zajac.

 

Most Devils players are 3rd, 4th or don't belong in the NHL players.

 

It's hard to have scoring without line chemistry and it's hard to have line chemistry without equal talent.

 

That's why Zajac is struggling no line chemistry with and without Kovy because no other line partner with same or better talent like Parise.

 

So compare 2011/12 with 2012/13 No Parise and Kovy out on IR it's hard to be offensive. Sullivan makes up some of Kovy's minutes. No one makes up for Kovy's distraction.

 

Why should they be cup finalists? They actually belong where they are with two 40 year old goalies and one that was on the IR.

 

Why should they be in the playoffs?

 

DeBoer hasn't and doesn't have the talent to work with.

 

Just my opinion.

Edited by LucifersDog

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Good one LD.  I just posted something similar on the other thread.  We have a team of 4th liners right now.

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Loki would be a nice second wit Zajac being a second or first.zubrus and henrique as well can do any line. But that's it really

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Honestly, this is what I thought would happen LAST year.  I felt great about this year.  Even without Parise.

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Lokti has some solid potential in our system. We just need to convince him it's worth it to stay here and develop chemistry with Kovalchuk rather than bolt to Russia.

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We need to make some sort of splash at the draft (besides our potential pick.) A trade would do wonders but I would much rather see a signing before next season. Give Bobby Ryan the money he wants. Who else is going to be a UFA that is considered a "top six forward"?

 

If Moose or Marty were on one year deals I would consider going after Howard but there would be no way Detroit lets him go. Lol.

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Loktionov is a top 6 forward....

 

Zubrus could be consider top 6 too

 

Henrique too

 

the problem is we dont have kovalchuk right now.... and when we have him we need another big time forward (a rick nash gaborik or any player of thaat caliber)

 

When you have 2 elite shooter on different line our on the same it easier for them to score... (Just look at kovy, everytime he is on the ice the other team attention is all over him, hopefully kovalchuk is not just a shooter he have an unbelievable vision that make him letal)

 

Maybe reid boucher will be that forward we need

 

Bobby Ryan is a good idea too

Edited by caron14

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Two things re:  Loktionov

 

If he was such a sure-fire second liner, why he was available for a 5th-rounder?

 

The shooting% is coming back down to Earth (it was almost 30%, now down to 20.6%, and will likely drop down more), and the goals have begun to stop going in for him.

 

He still could turn out to be a diamond-in-the-rough story, but I'm definitely not banking on it.

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Loktionov is a top 6 forward....

 

Zubrus could be consider top 6 too

 

Henrique too

 

the problem is we dont have kovalchuk right now.... and when we have him we need another big time forward (a rick nash gaborik or any player of thaat caliber)

 

When you have 2 elite shooter on different line our on the same it easier for them to score... (Just look at kovy, everytime he is on the ice the other team attention is all over him, hopefully kovalchuk is not just a shooter he have an unbelievable vision that make him letal)

 

Maybe reid boucher will be that forward we need

 

Bobby Ryan is a good idea too

 

 

I mean...I'm comfortable with our defensive prospects. There seems to be a lot of potential there and we could have an amazing defensive core in the future but I am really concerned more the anything (as I'm sure most of you are) with our forward prospect pool. Outside of Boucher and to a point Matteau (who I don't even know if you can consider a prospect anymore considering he now has NHL experience.) we don't really have the strongest prospects when it comes to forwards. That's where we really need to draft better.

 

FA wise I know there isn't a lot of strong UFAs. Especially at forward. Sure Filppula would be good but he's coming off a horrid year. Raymond would be nice but is he top six material? Nathan Horton or Pierre-Marc Bouchard would be my pipe dream honestly.

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Two things re: Loktionov

If he was such a sure-fire second liner, why he was available for a 5th-rounder?

The shooting% is coming back down to Earth (it was almost 30%, now down to 20.6%, and will likely drop down more), and the goals have begun to stop going in for him.

He still could turn out to be a diamond-in-the-rough story, but I'm definitely not banking on it.

He was available for a 5th rounded because he literally had no further future in LA. He was dead set on going back to Russia. They figured rather than lose him for nothing, they'd grab what they can and move him. He didn't adapt to their system and even said on his arrival here he was uncomfortable on the wing.

@Mazz I'd love for us to get Horton but, agree with you it's probably more of a pipe dream than anything.

Edited by jagknife

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Two things re:  Loktionov

 

If he was such a sure-fire second liner, why he was available for a 5th-rounder?

 

The shooting% is coming back down to Earth (it was almost 30%, now down to 20.6%, and will likely drop down more), and the goals have begun to stop going in for him.

 

He still could turn out to be a diamond-in-the-rough story, but I'm definitely not banking on it.

 

Loktionov definitely boosts this team's talent and can be a solid second or third line center. Lombardi probably preferred to get some sort of return for him rather than have him take off to the KHL. He's got good hands and good vision.

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He was available for a 5th rounded because he literally had no further future in LA. He was dead set on going back to Russia. They figured rather than lose him for nothing, they'd grab what they can and move him. He didn't adapt to their system and even said on his arrival here he was uncomfortable on the wing.

@Mazz I'd love for us to get Horton but, agree with you it's probably more of a pipe dream than anything.

 

Makes sense, 5th-rounder just seems like such a miminal price for a young guy who might have some ability.  The Devils have probably already gotten more out of him than they were expecting. 

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Two things re: Loktionov

If he was such a sure-fire second liner, why he was available for a 5th-rounder?

The shooting% is coming back down to Earth (it was almost 30%, now down to 20.6%, and will likely drop down more), and the goals have begun to stop going in for him.

He still could turn out to be a diamond-in-the-rough story, but I'm definitely not banking on it.

He's not a clarkson esqe forward where if he doesn't score he's worthless. Lokti has good hockey sense and tangible skills.

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Makes sense, 5th-rounder just seems like such a miminal price for a young guy who might have some ability. The Devils have probably already gotten more out of him than they were expecting.

Without a doubt we've gotten more than expected, especially with 7 goals. Yes he's cooled a little but considering he only had 7 in the AHL through 35 games, 7 at the NHL level is solid. Granted he only has 4 helpers, no one else is scoring for us so can't really blame him in that regard.

He's also only 22 so could still realistically develop a little more and continue to adapt into our system.

Edited by jagknife

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He was available for a 5th rounded because he literally had no further future in LA. He was dead set on going back to Russia. They figured rather than lose him for nothing, they'd grab what they can and move him. He didn't adapt to their system and even said on his arrival here he was uncomfortable on the wing.

@Mazz I'd love for us to get Horton but, agree with you it's probably more of a pipe dream than anything.

 

I don't care who we sign at this point but I'm going to say what I've said from the beginning. Perhaps maybe outside of a Jagr like player we need to sign players that AREN'T on the wrong side of 30. Some scoring forwards in their 20s would be nice. I know there aren't many out there this year but I'm just saying in general. We could have gotten Jussi for the same price we got old man Sullivan. It's not like Jokinen has a long time on his contract either. What does it say when we can't potentially pay someone with a two million dollar contract. Yikes. I know it's a moot point but just because Jussi wasn't performing well in Carolina this year that means Steve fvcking Sullivan was suddenly our best option?

 

I just don't get it. Maybe it's me and maybe Lou has something up his sleeve or knows something that none of us don't but I don't get this at all.

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I don't care who we sign at this point but I'm going to say what I've said from the beginning. Perhaps maybe outside of a Jagr like player we need to sign players that AREN'T on the wrong side of 30. Some scoring forwards in their 20s would be nice. I know there aren't many out there this year but I'm just saying in general. We could have gotten Jussi for the same price we got old man Sullivan. It's not like Jokinen has a long time on his contract either. What does it say when we can't potentially pay someone with a two million dollar contract. Yikes. I know it's a moot point but just because Jussi wasn't performing well in Carolina this year that means Steve fvcking Sullivan was suddenly our best option?

I just don't get it. Maybe it's me and maybe Lou has something up his sleeve or knows something that none of us don't but I don't get this at all.

I know we'll never hear why, but I know I'll never understand passing on Jokinen twice. Especially the second time when it was a draft pick AND the Canes kept some of his salary to seal the deal.

We definitely need to get younger. I think Lou's waiting to see who will be a cap casualty with the amnesty buy outs, and might/should use one of his own.

I just hope he does SOMETHING to bring in scoring and not a 35+ scorer.

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anyway 2 scenarion will come

 

1. we make the playoffs

2 we dont but we draft  early in a deep draft year (maybe first if we are Lucky like 3 year ago wouldnt mind see Drouin or Mackinnon in a devils jersey)

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I know we'll never hear why, but I know I'll never understand passing on Jokinen twice. Especially the second time when it was a draft pick AND the Canes kept some of his salary to seal the deal.

We definitely need to get younger. I think Lou's waiting to see who will be a cap casualty with the amnesty buy outs, and might/should use one of his own.

I just hope he does SOMETHING to bring in scoring and not a 35+ scorer.

this i really think he could he'll see Amnesty buyout and sign good players who were overpaid...

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I know we'll never hear why, but I know I'll never understand passing on Jokinen twice. Especially the second time when it was a draft pick AND the Canes kept some of his salary to seal the deal.

We definitely need to get younger. I think Lou's waiting to see who will be a cap casualty with the amnesty buy outs, and might/should use one of his own.

I just hope he does SOMETHING to bring in scoring and not a 35+ scorer.

 

I see the return for Jagr, Jokinen (not to compare Jussi with Jagr) and my imminent thought process is..."We didn't have THOSE assets? There was nothing given in return."

 

There is no reason that we couldn't have landed one of those two.

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are you serious??????????????????? would cost us 2 good prospect and likely a 1 round pick... and i dont think that with jagr we would win more right now...

 

But Derek Roy was cheap and we should get him

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I see the return for Jagr, Jokinen (not to compare Jussi with Jagr) and my imminent thought process is..."We didn't have THOSE assets? There was nothing given in return."

 

There is no reason that we couldn't have landed one of those two.

 

I don't know, I don't think the Devils are really in the position to give up second-rounders for rentals.  We may not like the statement made by Lou, but I think what he said by getting Sullivan for a seventh was "I brought in a guy who may help who basically cost me nothing in a 'what-the-hell' kind of way, but I'm not mortaging anything of major value for this team, because based off what I've seen, it's not going to happen this season, so why blow any assets to try?"  He won't say it, but I think he's already thinking 2013-14.  Doesn't mean he won't be happy if the Devils make the playoffs this season...I just think he wasn't going to invest too heavily in improving the 2013 Devils when he saw what we've seen. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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Agree... It's becoming more and more apparent with each passing game that 85% of our roster would just about break any other team's 3rd line, probably 4th...

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I don't know, I don't think the Devils are really in the position to give up second-rounders for rentals.  We may not like the statement made by Lou, but I think what he said by getting Sullivan for a seventh was "I brought in a guy who may help who basically cost me nothing in a 'what-the-hell' kind of way, but I'm not mortaging anything of major value for this team, because based off what I've seen, it's not going to happen this season, so why blow any assets to try?"  He won't say it, but I think he's already thinking 2013-14.  Doesn't mean he won't be happy if the Devils make the playoffs this season...I just think he wasn't going to invest too heavily in improving the 2013 Devils when he saw what we've seen. 

 

A 2nd rounder wouldn't have really mortgaged the future of the team. I'm not asking to give up what Minny did to give Pominville here. If Jagr was in our lineup I have no doubt in my mind we'd be in 7th or 8th right now. Also we are a game behind the Islanders. This team can still make the playoffs. Lou has no excuse to not improve this team IMO.

Edited by TheMazz

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Lou probably looked into Jokinen, but when he heard that Jokinen wanted #36 he was like no way.

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