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JacobPaul1995

Analyzing Albany: The Goalies

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Since Brodeurs Brilliance is almost over, lets take a look at our future

 

only 2012-2013 stats are displayed unless otherwise noted

 

Albany Devils:

Scott Wedgewood

5gp 2W 2L 14GA

solid numbers, but id like to see him get more time before we can give him a better look

 

Jeff Frazee

28GP 8W 14L 5SOL 1SO 71GA

these numbers are pretty bad. i don't think that Frazee will ever become an NHL netminder. his AHL career wins loss total is 73-87-16

 

Keith Kinkaid

45GP 21W 17L 6SOL 2SO 120GA

 

pretty solid numbers, i do believe Kinkaid is our immediate solution to our goalie problems, unless somebody else comes out of the woodwork (Anthony Brodeur, anyone?)

Kinkaids career numbers over his 2 seasons are

38-37-9 with 5 shutouts and 235 GA.

 

whats your opinion/analysis?

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Save % and number of shots faced are more important stats for a goalie than wins and losses. It's such a team sport that a tender can be great and still barely win any games. You should post those up there with the other stats. And for Wedgewood, 5 games isn't enough to analyze anything, if you still want him listed, I'd see if you can find his stats from the ECHL. You might want to check the prospect thread that thefiestygoat does. It's great and here it is: http://www.njdevs.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=126699&page=1

Also, from all reports, Anthony Brodeur will have limited chance at making it to the NHL, so I wouldn't bet on him being anyone's savior.

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I wonder if there's something going on behind the scenes like Lou and Brodeur putting their heads together on this one. If there isn't, it's a mistake

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Anthony Brodeur will never end up on this team if he even makes it into the league.

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Since Brodeurs Brilliance is almost over, lets take a look at our future

 

only 2012-2013 stats are displayed unless otherwise noted

 

Albany Devils:

Scott Wedgewood

5gp 2W 2L 14GA

solid numbers, but id like to see him get more time before we can give him a better look

 

Jeff Frazee

28GP 8W 14L 5SOL 1SO 71GA

these numbers are pretty bad. i don't think that Frazee will ever become an NHL netminder. his AHL career wins loss total is 73-87-16

 

Keith Kinkaid

45GP 21W 17L 6SOL 2SO 120GA

 

pretty solid numbers, i do believe Kinkaid is our immediate solution to our goalie problems, unless somebody else comes out of the woodwork (Anthony Brodeur, anyone?)

Kinkaids career numbers over his 2 seasons are

38-37-9 with 5 shutouts and 235 GA.

 

whats your opinion/analysis?

 

What are you going by, when you say pretty solid/pretty bad? 

 

Frazee had a 2.58 GAA and .916 save%, and you're saying he's pretty bad.

Kinkaid had a 2.72 GAA and .905 save%, but he was pretty solid? 

 

It seems like you're basing your criticisms on their W-L records and not much else.  Not a great way to try to judge talent.  I'm guessing you probably didn't see them play, and I didn't either.  As far as NHL careers go, I'm guessing they're both question marks at best, and in Lou's eyes, probably not ready yet.  That likely factored into his signing both Brodeur and Hedberg to two-year deals, in that Lou didn't think the heir apparent had yet become, well, apparent. 

 

And AHL numbers aren't the best way to judge a goalie anyway.  The Devils had a goalie who went 14-13-5 in 1992-93, with a 4.03 GAA, .884 save%, and no shutouts.  His name was Martin Brodeur.  Goalie numbers can really take a hit on a bad team...just check out Chico Resch's Islander numbers, and his Colorado Rocky/New Jersey Devil numbers.  You'd be hard-pressed to believe it's the same guy. 

 

I get the feeling Wedge is probably the guy Lou is hoping will be the guy.  I'm speculating, but I don't think he's a huge believer in either Frazee or Kinkaid.  If Brodeur and Hedberg really struggle next season (a definite possibility), Lou may not have much choice but to give either one or even both of them a look, especially since Wedge will probably need SOME seasoning at the AHL level. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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i love seeing kinkaid play, got some aggressive and flashy saves. he fits the hole brodeur will leave the most.

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If we are looking at the future with any of these guys then surely they need to be backup goalie, playing 15%-25% of matches to get some minutes under their belt. From the looks of it, Frazee/Wedge look a good bet, however if The Devs are going to stick with Marty and Moose rotating, I feel the long term is going to take a hit. Marty is always number one, and although I like Moose a lot, I feel we need to move him on and then get one of our AHL minders to step up next season.

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Frazee has had some pretty awful AHL teams in front of him over the years, but I still feel like he's destined to be an AHL goaltender.  He's old(er), you'd think he would've been given a shot by now as a backup if he had the talent.

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playing Brodeur and Moose next season will hurt the team but that's what I expect Lou to do. This will  also hurt the team in the following year. after next season both contracts will be up for Marty and Moose after that Lou will probably give Marty a year to year contract to be #1 or 2 and bring up one of the rookies. IMO that's a year too late.

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I'd be a betting man on Marty coming back for another year atleast after this one.. The man is not ready to retire he says it over and over again.

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Frazee has had some pretty awful AHL teams in front of him over the years, but I still feel like he's destined to be an AHL goaltender.  He's old(er), you'd think he would've been given a shot by now as a backup if he had the talent.

 

I feel that Frazee is a classic example of a goalie that would be in the NHL in the 80's or 90's, but not now because of how much the position has changed. 

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Our next goalie will almost certainly come from outside the organization. Some available UFAs next year (who may or may not ever get to free agency):

Lundqvist

Hiller

Halak

Dubnyk

Crawford

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speaking of Hiller: why did the Ducks use him instead of Viktor Fasth in the playoffs? i wouldve used Fasth.

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I'd be a betting man on Marty coming back for another year atleast after this one.. The man is not ready to retire he says it over and over again.

 

I've already talked about this in other threads, but if Marty has a season like last year's, then the Devils need to make the call for him, even if they somehow come off as the "bad guys".  It's too early to say this for sure about Marty, but the fact is some aging superstar players (particularly the ones that won't or can't acknowledge that they've lost their skills) will practically hold their organizations hostage if their egos aren't held in check.  Mark Messier did this to the Rangers in his second tour of duty for them.   

 

The Devils and Marty have enjoyed a mutually beneficial relationship all of these years.  Hopefully, it will end on good terms.  If Marty looks as ordinary as he did for much of 2013 next season, and thinks he has the right to come back, because he's Marty, the Devils simply have to tell him "Thank you for every last thing you've done for us, all of it, but no, we are not re-signing you."  Marty should hopefully understand the last thing ANYONE wants to see is a diminished version of an all-time great.  Sadly enough, there's already Devils fans who don't like Marty, or don't appreciate him as much they should...if he starts acting like he runs the team or is somehow more important than what is best for it, more fans could turn on him.  Hopefully, next year will be a reasonably decent victory tour for Marty...then he will exit the game gracefully, and make life easy for everyone involved.  

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I've already talked about this in other threads, but if Marty has a season like last year's, then the Devils need to make the call for him, even if they somehow come off as the "bad guys".  It's too early to say this for sure about Marty, but the fact is some aging superstar players (particularly the ones that won't or can't acknowledge that they've lost their skills) will practically hold their organizations hostage if their egos aren't held in check.  Mark Messier did this to the Rangers in his second tour of duty for them.   

 

The Devils and Marty have enjoyed a mutually beneficial relationship all of these years.  Hopefully, it will end on good terms.  If Marty looks as ordinary as he did for much of 2013 next season, and thinks he has the right to come back, because he's Marty, the Devils simply have to tell him "Thank you for every last thing you've done for us, all of it, but no, we are not re-signing you."  Marty should hopefully understand the last thing ANYONE wants to see is a diminished version of an all-time great.  Sadly enough, there's already Devils fans who don't like Marty, or don't appreciate him as much they should...if he starts acting like he runs the team or is somehow more important than what is best for it, more fans could turn on him.  Hopefully, next year will be a reasonably decent victory tour for Marty...then he will exit the game gracefully, and make life easy for everyone involved.  

well put.. i agree with you completely. as much as i love marty i would hate to see him try coming back after next year if he is really beyond his day.. i just hope he is good enough next year to keep it together.. there were quite a few times in the second half of this year that i really felt he did not perform up to par .. also noticed alot of fans getting pretty hard on him and annoyed.

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Our next goalie will almost certainly come from outside the organization. Some available UFAs next year (who may or may not ever get to free agency):LundqvistHillerHalakDubnykCrawford

If we net Lundqvist, that would make up for the worst moves Lou has ever made, letting the likes of Nieds, Rafalski and Zach all walk; relinquished with a signing of Lundqvist. Not to mention it being sweet, sweet retribution for every time those blue skirt rejects picked up our sloppy seconds.

But, it's Lou, and it'll never happen.

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If we net Lundqvist, that would make up for the worst moves Lou has ever made, letting the likes of Nieds, Rafalski and Zach all walk; relinquished with a signing of Lundqvist. Not to mention it being sweet, sweet retribution for every time those blue skirt rejects picked up our sloppy seconds.

But, it's Lou, and it'll never happen.

It could be Frank f'n Selke and he wouldn't sign here. It has nothing to do with Lou and everything to do with him wanting to be a ranger.

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The only way marty comes back after next year is as a back up IF lou fails yo trade for a developed goalie who can start and the kids aren't able to be a starter so quick without a reliable back up which would be marty. Say:

Kinkaid(starter)

Marty(backup) for kinkaid sake. Only if lou doesn't go after someone. Hopefully he does.

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If we net Lundqvist, that would make up for the worst moves Lou has ever made, letting the likes of Nieds, Rafalski and Zach all walk; relinquished with a signing of Lundqvist. Not to mention it being sweet, sweet retribution for every time those blue skirt rejects picked up our sloppy seconds.

But, it's Lou, and it'll never happen.

 

Jesus, fvcking REALLY?!  He didn't "let" Nieds go...he offered him the max at the time.  He wanted to play with his brother, end of story.  Clearly there were no hard feelings on either side, as his number hangs in the rafters.

 

I'll admit, I don't know what happened with Rafalski...I know he ultimately decided to go home, but something happened there.  If anything, it wouldn't surprise me if Rafalski, after showing tremendous loyalty in waiting patiently for the Nieds situation to play out when he was an UFA the first time, probably got a little annoyed with Lou for not getting something done quickly the next time, and decided to play the market.  Could've even led to his "parking lot" swipe at the Devils after the Red Wings won the Cup.  But whatever happened, I think it's probably fair to say that Lou may have misread that situation.  But I have a long memory, and I also remember a lot of Devil fans complaining that they were sick of Rafalski shooting the puck into other players' skates, that he didn't shoot hard enough, etc.  I don't remember a huge outcry when he left...more of that he got a crazy contract with Detroit (which actually turned out to be good value). 

 

The Zach thing has been beaten to death, but I'll always believe his knee injury led Lou to be (understandably) cautious.  Call it lousy timing:  if he got injured any other season other than the one before his walk year, and puts up a season like he did in '11-'12, Lou probably re-signs him.  If the current CBA was in place, same thing.  At any rate, I can't ever beat up Lou for letting Zach go for the money he did...he's a good but not great player who has yet to show he can be an true impact player come playoff time.  And the Devils already had one of those monster contracts on the books.  One argument some might make is that the right move would've been to let Kovy walk and give Parise Kovy's money, but that's not a question that can be answered for many years, and even then, it's probably not a fair argument to make...not only is it full of hindsight, but it doesn't appear that Kovy's money held the Devils back from being in the hunt for Zach...looked like the Devils were in it right until the end.

 

Lundqvist is a Ranger.  I can't see him ever playing anywhere else unless something catastrophic happened (like a Patrick Roy/Canadiens-type incident...not the same exact thing, but it'd have to be something unforeseen).  And I don't think he'd EVER be a Devil, under any circumstances, and that would have nothing to do with Lou.  I think DD56 nailed it...the guy bleeds Ranger blue, and even if somehow didn't work out for him there, I can't see him giving that organization the finger by coming here.  He doesn't seem like the type.      

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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I hope Kinkaid get some starts next season, so we can see a little bit of what he can do at NHL Level. His AHL Numbers are average so i don't expect him to take the step.  Our other two Prospects played both in the ECHL last year. Both finished with numbers at the bottom of the standings.

Wedgewood (20) played 48 Games for Trenton (a .500 Team) and posted .900 SV% and 3.22 GAA....24th overall in the ECHL Goaltenderstats.

Clermont (21) played 41 Games for Elmira (a .600 Team) and posted .899 SV% and 3.24 GAA...25th overall.

If they don't improve their numbers significantly over the next season they will stay in the lower leagues forever.

 

We don't have a starting goaltender in our Minor or Prospectpool....so Lou must look outside the organisation.

My Choice would be Jonathan Bernier (Quick will be No.1 the next 5 years). He's a RFA this season (1,25 $ cap hit). I can't see LA throwing out big bucks for the backup goalie so maybe there's a chance to get him for a veteran d-man (tallinder, volch) a prospect (josefson, tedenby :giggle: , urbom) and one of our goalies (kinkaid).

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i wouldnt dump Kinkaid for Jon Bernier. id put Frazee on the block with the veteran dman and urbom

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I seriously doubt anyone wants anything to do with our prospect goalies at the moment. I seriously doubt we trade for a goalie either. We'll either sign someone as a stopgap via FA or stand pat until after next season. I think if we can reload on offense a bit in the offseason(i.e. top 6 forward), dump a d-man or two. I think we're ok for next year. Then I think the next offseason, when teams will still be able to buyout players, you'll see Lou gauge where our prospects are at and whether we need to find a goalie.

Edited by ATLL765

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Frazee has minimal trade value.  He's 25 years old and has gotten exactly 19 minutes of playing time at the NHL level, and that was due to Brodeur being hurt, not because the Devils wanted to get a look at him.  Want to argue that he and any other goalie in the Devils' system was blocked by Brodeur the past several years?  That's fair, but teams are always looking for goalies...safe to say that, if Frazee was showing something at the AHL level, there would've been interest from other teams.  Scouts are always on the prowl...there's a reason Ari Ahonen never got a shot, and there's a reason why Frazee is now is his mid-20s and has 5 AHL seasons under his belt. 

 

He'd be nothing more than a throw-in in any deal at this point. 

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I'm pretty sure Frazee is a type VI free agent and is UFA, so you can shelve any discussions of his having trade value.

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per TG - Frazee has an offer to play in Sweden next year but is waiting to see if the Devils want to resign him. My bet is he's gone.

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