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Devils trade #9 pick in 2013 Draft to Vancouver for Cory Schneider

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We have enough data on Brodeur's backups to know how much he suppresses shots against.

This article is actually not very good, I'd be curious to run the numbers for the last 5 years, as the Devils have used a lot of backups: http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/2008/10/estimating-brodeurs-shot-prevention.html

What's the good data you have, because the article you linked to said more analysis is needed. (Probably why you said it isn't very good).

A comparison to Hedberg to show shot suppression won't tell a guy like me very much since Hedberg is a good puck handler in his own right.

I guess what everyone seems to be saying here is that goaltending was the biggest factor in the poor results this season. Next year ought to be a decent test of this theory since, if you believe save percentage is most important, Schneider is the better goalie. (You can use goals against if you want).

Of course, and to be as respectful as I can about this, if goals against/wins does not reflect this, you'll say it was just luck or Schneider isn't very good ir Broduer was unusually lucky. Chickens/eggs.

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A comparison to Hedberg to show shot suppression won't tell a guy like me very much since Hedberg is a good puck handler in his own right.

 

Got years with Weekes and Clemmensen, and the data will be easy to winnow out.  Hell, we can sort it by even strength.

 

I guess what everyone seems to be saying here is that goaltending was the biggest factor in the poor results this season. Next year ought to be a decent test of this theory since, if you believe save percentage is most important, Schneider is the better goalie. (You can use goals against if you want).

 

Offense was probably a bigger factor, but goaltending was right there.

Of course, and to be as respectful as I can about this, if goals against/wins does not reflect this, you'll say it was just luck or Schneider isn't very good ir Broduer was unusually lucky. Chickens/eggs.

 

A sample size of one doesn't really prove much either way, something which I can tell it's an uphill battle to fight you on.  The Devils' SV% has been mostly rotten for 3 years now.  If they lose Elias, they will also lose one of their best shots against suppressors.  But yeah, if the save percentage is bad, I'll conclude Schneider had a bad season, not that he's necessarily bad - even the greats can have them (like Brodeur from 1999-2002).

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Got years with Weekes and Clemmensen, and the data will be easy to winnow out. Hell, we can sort it by even strength.

Offense was probably a bigger factor, but goaltending was right there.

A sample size of one doesn't really prove much either way, something which I can tell it's an uphill battle to fight you on. The Devils' SV% has been mostly rotten for 3 years now. If they lose Elias, they will also lose one of their best shots against suppressors. But yeah, if the save percentage is bad, I'll conclude Schneider had a bad season, not that he's necessarily bad - even the greats can have them (like Brodeur from 1999-2002).

You've got one year with Clemmensen. Weekes played what 7 games that year?

I can be convinced, but I doubt shot suppression is ever going to be something you can quantify.

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You've got one year with Clemmensen. Weekes played what 7 games that year?

I can be convinced, but I doubt shot suppression is ever going to be something you can quantify.

 

Weekes played 16 games in 2008-09.

 

The question wouldn't be how much Brodeur suppresses shots, it would be if he does.  I doubt it's a very large effect.

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A sample size of one doesn't really prove much either way, something which I can tell it's an uphill battle to fight you on.  The Devils' SV% has been mostly rotten for 3 years now.  If they lose Elias, they will also lose one of their best shots against suppressors.  But yeah, if the save percentage is bad, I'll conclude Schneider had a bad season, not that he's necessarily bad - even the greats can have them (like Brodeur from 1999-2002).

 

I don't agree with that assessment.  I think he was weak in 2000-2001 (reg season and playoffs) and was not good in the '99 playoffs.  He was hardly bad in 1999-2000 (.927 playoff save% during the playoffs).  Just going strictly by memory, even though the save%s in those four seasons were .906, .910., .906 and .906, I don't think it's accurate to call that whole stretch bad.  I think he was better overall than the raw %s of those seasons might indicate.  No one was calling him a bad goalie...that's for damned sure. 

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..nearly 100 games played, 98 to be exact.

Still though, throughout those 98 games, only 26 regulation losses! The guys got 53 wins over his last 79 starts.. pretty amazing stats over the last 3 years. What's-more, he hasn't even entered his prime yet! Seeing Schneider play any less than 30 games this season would be a letdown.

The Devils better do all they can here not to screw this up. I respect the fact that there needs to be regard dealing with Brodeur's dignity.. however, if Marty shows an unwillingness to bow out graciously after this season, then let him chase 700 on another team.

 

98 still isn't 100, and the post I replied to was "among goalies with at least 100 games..." I'm happy we got the guy, glad we seem to have a transition in the making, but same as I felt when the chatter around possibly grabbing Halak came up, I'd be happier if the guy had played 50 games in an NHL season at least once. If it turns out that he drops off a lot after 50 or 55 games in a season we will need a quality 2nd goalie who can handle 30 games just to get us to the playoffs. Maybe, like Marty in his prime, he can play 70 games per season year in and year out. Right now I am hoping so, and not taking it for granted. That is all :)

Edited by jim777

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Quick question...we still have to forfeit our first round pick next year, right?  So that means two years in a row of possibly giving up a top 10 pick. I just hope Schnieder is starting within 4 years, otherrwise the swap doesnt make as much sense.

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Quick question...we still have to forfeit our first round pick next year, right?  So that means two years in a row of possibly giving up a top 10 pick. I just hope Schnieder is starting within 4 years, otherrwise the swap doesnt make as much sense.

 

Yes although reports are coming out that Lou and the Devils will be appealing to have that penalty removed.

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Yes although reports are coming out that Lou and the Devils will be appealing to have that penalty removed.

I haven't seen 1 legitimate report suggest that, Lou and TG said the team won't do that, and there isn't any likely scenario where the Devils could win an appeal anyway.

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Quick question...we still have to forfeit our first round pick next year, right?  So that means two years in a row of possibly giving up a top 10 pick. I just hope Schnieder is starting within 4 years, otherrwise the swap doesnt make as much sense.

 

Schneider should be starting by the end of 2013-14, whether they want to call him the starter or not.

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That's my only concern... Marty is 41 but looks like he could play until he's 44-45. That's not an exaggeration. Others have come close (i.e Ed Belfour). Will Schneider be ok riding the pine that long? Remains to be seen.

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That's my only concern... Marty is 41 but looks like he could play until he's 44-45. That's not an exaggeration. Others have come close (i.e Ed Belfour). Will Schneider be ok riding the pine that long? Remains to be seen.

 

In comparison, Schneider has played at a high level, when he's played, the last 3 years.  Marty has played, at beast, acceptable, over a similar time frame.  I'm guessing Schneider is the de facto starter by the time the playoffs roll around this season.

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That's my only concern... Marty is 41 but looks like he could play until he's 44-45. That's not an exaggeration. Others have come close (i.e Ed Belfour). Will Schneider be ok riding the pine that long? Remains to be seen.

 

They won't let Marty hold the team hostage. Once the games start being played, if Schneider outplays Marty as badly as some think he will there will be no question. You can't equate Marty wanting to play in his mid 40's with Marty starting in his mid 40's.

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I haven't seen 1 legitimate report suggest that, Lou and TG said the team won't do that, and there isn't any likely scenario where the Devils could win an appeal anyway.

 

True, you're right, although his actions (or inactions) cause me to think possibly otherwise.

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In comparison, Schneider has played at a high level, when he's played, the last 3 years.  Marty has played, at beast, acceptable, over a similar time frame.  I'm guessing Schneider is the de facto starter by the time the playoffs roll around this season.

 

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https://twitter.com/RealBillWatters/status/352419123705290753

 

"Schneider 's exit from Vancouver was precipitated by off ice issues,rather than goaltending and financial as outlined in Gillis' rationale."

 

Oh God does that mean he's going to shoot someone gangland style?

 

According to Wysh who is just going by what he sees on twitter also, word is that Kesler was banging Schneider's gf.

 

Again this is just random twitter comments so take it with a grain of salt.

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According to Wysh who is just going by what he sees on twitter also, word is that Kesler was banging Schneider's gf.

 

Again this is just random twitter comments so take it with a grain of salt.

 

Not only was it a random twitter comment, it's from a random twitter guy that doesn't post any insider stuff.  Much more likely it was a guy making a bad joke.

 

But since it's on twitter and making the rounds, we'll probably hear 2 years from now about how "everyone" knows it's true, etc... etc...

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Not only was it a random twitter comment, it's from a random twitter guy that doesn't post any insider stuff.  Much more likely it was a guy making a bad joke.

 

But since it's on twitter and making the rounds, we'll probably hear 2 years from now about how "everyone" knows it's true, etc... etc...

 

Yeah I mean it is surely nonsense and wouldn't have even gotten attention unless Wysh made a mention of it.

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i think kevin stevens and rod brind'amour, and eric lindros, and keith primeau and jeff carter are also involved.

 

am i correct that the "banging the wife" fables started with kevin stevens?

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The more and more I think about this from Sunday, the more and more I like it! LET'S GO DEVILS, LET'S GO MARTY AND LET'S GO CORY!

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That's my only concern... Marty is 41 but looks like he could play until he's 44-45. That's not an exaggeration. Others have come close (i.e Ed Belfour). Will Schneider be ok riding the pine that long? Remains to be seen.

 

He plays best when he's rested, and he can still bring it (just not as often as he used to). Plus, he's played 144 games in the last 3 years, Schneider has played 98. If Schneider can play 52 and let Marty get 30, we might be golden for next season at least.

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Still no word on what number Cory is going to wear? I imagine they'd announce it/allude to it in some kind of presser.

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Still no word on what number Cory is going to wear? I imagine they'd announce it/allude to it in some kind of presser.

 

 

I wouldn't be surpised if we didn't know till training camp.

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