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Kovalchuk Retired Effective Immediately?

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Sorry SD but if you look at his injuries and performance in 2012-2013 then couple that in with his upcoming salary it would have been a train wreck. We got an amazing talent for four years and never paid him once over six million. It was the best case scenaio that he left when he did. You need to open your eyes as well.

Edited by Zubie#8

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I don't get the beat the dead horse posts. The thread was bumped...it's been a year. A lot has happened, and it is interesting to look back and look ahead with everything we now know. Plus, most of the emotion has been taken out of the equation, so that makes helps.

 

The forum has been ghost town for a bit, and this is good discussion.

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But I did both. Because I'm tired of this stupid argument, and I wanted to express that. Yoy may carry on with this waste of bandwidth now.

 

Here's where I'll disagree:

 

This was clearly a huge moment in Devils' history, one of those big crossroad moments, and it's not even so much that Kovy left, but how he left...the circumstances were so stunningly bizarre.  Big names leaving here is nothing new (though many have stayed, and other teams deal with losing big-target free agents too, though some Devils fans seem to truly believe that Lou is the only GM that this happens to), but let's face it, if there was one thing that seemed like an indisputable absolute, it was Ilya "This is Team" Kovalchuk staying here for a very, very long time, and for better or worse, his face being synonomous with the New Jersey Devils...especially since the team really seemed to become HIS team as 2012 wore on.  Parise leaving was a downer, but a UFA exercising his UFA right to leave the team that drafted him for another team that appeals to him for whatever his reasons is one thing...it happens a lot, all over.  What Kovy did was so different and shocking (to fans, anyway), and I think some people are still having trouble grasping it.   

 

Anyway, since he left, it's almost felt like Back to the Future II, Alternate 1985 Hill Valley...not as chaotic as THAT alternate timeline of course, but once Kovy decided he was done with the NHL (at least for now), Lou's made a slew of moves, many of which probably never have happen.  It's kind of natural to wonder "what if" a little bit, even it seems pointless, and even if there's no 1978 Supermanning our way around the Earth to reverse time and find out where we'd be had Kovy simply decided to honor his contract.  It'd be less on people's minds if the Devils hasn't missed the playoffs in three out of four seasons, but like dr33 suggests, Cory is signed, no real big moves are coming, the team is pretty much set, and until we have NHL hockey again there's not a whole lot to talk about, so this is the kind of stuff that will get brought up for the moment.         

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Here's where I'll disagree:

This was clearly a huge moment in Devils' history, one of those big crossroad moments, and it's not even so much that Kovy left, but how he left...the circumstances were so stunningly bizarre. Big names leaving here is nothing new (though many have stayed, and other teams deal with losing big-target free agents too, though some Devils fans seem to truly believe that Lou is the only GM that this happens to), but let's face it, if there was one thing that seemed like an indisputable absolute, it was Ilya "This is Team" Kovalchuk staying here for a very, very long time, and for better or worse, his face being synonomous with the New Jersey Devils...especially since the team really seemed to become HIS team as 2012 wore on. Parise leaving was a downer, but a UFA exercising his UFA right to leave the team that drafted him for another team that appeals to him for whatever his reasons is one thing...it happens a lot, all over. What Kovy did was so different and shocking (to fans, anyway), and I think some people are still having trouble grasping it.

Anyway, since he left, it's almost felt like Back to the Future II, Alternate 1985 Hill Valley...not as chaotic as THAT alternate timeline of course, but once Kovy decided he was done with the NHL (at least for now), Lou's made a slew of moves, many of which probably never have happen. It's kind of natural to wonder "what if" a little bit, even it seems pointless, and even if there's no 1978 Supermanning our way around the Earth to reverse time and find out where we'd be had Kovy simply decided to honor his contract. It'd be less on people's minds if the Devils hasn't missed the playoffs in three out of four seasons, but like dr33 suggests, Cory is signed, no real big moves are coming, the team is pretty much set, and until we have NHL hockey again there's not a whole lot to talk about, so this is the kind of stuff that will get brought up for the moment.

I know its been dead around here, so I get that people just wanna talk about something- its just a tired topic to me at this point. To me, its indisputable to be that we're better off without him long-term with that contract. If Kovy was still here and produced like he did in the KHL last year, we'd already been bitching about the contract being a huge albatross. I was pissed at the time, but now? I couldn't be happier. He did us a huge favor. I just wish we'd move on already...

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I know its been dead around here, so I get that people just wanna talk about something- its just a tired topic to me at this point. To me, its indisputable to be that we're better off without him long-term with that contract. If Kovy was still here and produced like he did in the KHL last year, we'd already been bitching about the contract being a huge albatross. I was pissed at the time, but now? I couldn't be happier. He did us a huge favor. I just wish we'd move on already...

 

If Marty gets signed, this will also be forgotten very quickly. 

 

I pretty much agree with the above (I wasn't really all that pissed when he left...I never liked that contract and was glad to see it off the books, especially since the Devils would be paying out high coin for decline years), though to me, as soon as a guy no longer wants to be here and is willing to go to the lengths Kovy did to get out, a lot of other things become moot.  A miserable Kovy constantly pining to be somewhere else would've sucked for everyone. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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Yeah Parise was missing and EVERYONE sucked that year. Who caried the team almost back in the playoffs in the 2nd half? who? yeah thats right.

 

back then we we're praising the guy. Now that he's gone, its like he was a fvcking useless bum?

 

Even if he was not to your "level of awesome" he was better than any other player on the team, so acting as if he's not useful ? give me a break

 

There's a huge difference between "not worth 11 million a year" and "useless bum". If you can't see that Kovalchuk is clearly on the decline since the 2012 run, maybe you should be giving someone a break.

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There's a huge difference between "not worth 11 million a year" and "useless bum". If you can't see that Kovalchuk is clearly on the decline since the 2012 run, maybe you should be giving someone a break.

Exactly. Kovy was a phenomenal player, but he quit on us and was overpaid. Glad he's gone.

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the lockout quit on hockey or sth

 

maybe the devils quit on kovy

 

i can make ish up to

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when was his last game in the khl?  does he have to sit out a season or just a years worth of game for him to be eligible to come back to nj without any other teams objecting?  Would love to have him back for the playoff push this year.

 

My take is that he quit on the nhl over the lockout, not the devils specifically. And with the olympics around the corner,just looked like the grass was greener.  After the CBA, with the recapture, Lou said if you are gona go,  go now before the contract kills our cap, but wait for Lou's timing to help the team out.  I know Lou said he didn't know, but if you believe what Lou tells the press you haven't been a fan of this team for long.  Have you ever heard Lou say he doesn't want a free agent back?  Do you think he wants every free agent back?  He just doesn't bad mouth his players.  

 

I still think we get Jagr if he stayed.  Probably not Ryder or Clowe and Brunner.  

 

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, I just got the feeling that he was never coached on how to play the game.  You saw improvements each year, but you aren't gonna put up gaudy numbers if you play both sides of the puck.  Will he ever be pandolfo in his defense?  No, but he was getting to the point were you were cringing when he went on the ice for a pk(ok, maybe you were,  I wasn't). 

Other than neids (not rob ha) skating, he was the most gifted player we've had (Molgilny had some magic as well I will admit).  You just can't teach a player to create something out of nothing which I've see him do.

This team didn't need much to be in the playoffs.  It did need scoring (and a bit of consistency, beat some good teams, lose to some bad teams drives ya nuts), I think if he could get on the same page as Jagr, the not as horrible of a pp as it seemed at times could be the difference.  

 

Besides, if Claude can come back after telling Lou that signing a fax isn't a real, anyone can come back.  Maybe with the exception of Danton who put a hit out on Lou, but if he could have helped the team, Lout would think about it.

 

I only posted here cause the thread was revived and wanted to get my 2 cents in and I don't think I have on this subject.  

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when was his last game in the khl?  does he have to sit out a season or just a years worth of game for him to be eligible to come back to nj without any other teams objecting?  Would love to have him back for the playoff push this year.

He's not coming back.  Every GM in the NHL needs to approve his return and he has to sit out an entire season of pro hockey.  He can say the Stanley Cup is his goal all he wants, but no GM is going to approve him returning, and if all the other GMs(by some miracle) say yes, Lou can just say no and boom, it's squashed.  He blew it for himself. 

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He's not coming back. Every GM in the NHL needs to approve his return and he has to sit out an entire season of pro hockey. He can say the Stanley Cup is his goal all he wants, but no GM is going to approve him returning, and if all the other GMs(by some miracle) say yes, Lou can just say no and boom, it's squashed. He blew it for himself.

not sure if what you said is true.

I'm pretty sure there are two ways he can get back in the league. Either sit out a year of pro hockey and become eligible, or be voted in by every GM right now

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and if bettman decides to change his mind again or prokhorov can change it for him.

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Sorry SD but if you look at his injuries and performance in 2012-2013 then couple that in with his upcoming salary it would have been a train wreck. We got an amazing talent for four years and never paid him once over six million. It was the best case scenaio that he left when he did. You need to open your eyes as well.

 

What you guys are not getting is that im not saying he was AMAZING or anything. Just about the common hypocrisy some posters here have. Kovalchuk was awesome, he carried the team bla bla bla bla. Then he leaves and he was a bum and we don't need him. Eventhough we're fvcking struggling at scoring. Im aware he may have a bad back and all but he was still playing better than a lot of guys at the olympics. And he's still better than any of our guys

 

then Zach also. we ALL praised the guy we were SO proud having 2 top players in the league and we we're all arguing we had one of the best punch duo in the league and bla bla bla bla. PArise was a CADILLAC to us, you would never hear anything bad about the guy. Then when Zach left, he was a bum too. We don't need him, he had a bad shot, was not scoring from more than 5 feet out, was not scoring in playoffs, was gonna break down in a few years, ra ra ra ra ra... Don't even try to DENY that what i just said isnt true.

 

Thats what im pointing out. Im pretty damn aware that Kovalchuk was a bad contract and that Zach won't be able to keep that level of play forever. I'm still not gonna bash those guys pretending we're better off RIGHT NOW without them. Cause we're really not. 

 

This fan base seems to like to accept mediocrity in the team play and try to focus on "well hey we suck but hey! at least we're not overpaying for this top player! (eventhough we're overpaying for other guys pretty baddly) or "I wouldnt want this guy who scores a lot, cause he's not top notch defensively, no i dont want his goals, i'd rather see our team play awesome defensively but not being able to score a damn goal."

 

People just seems to want to find excuses to feel better about the team. Like a guy who got dump by his gf, then she was gonna get fat in a few years, he deserved better, etc etc etc. Thats what a bunch of people looks like now, a bunch of butthurt guys bashing guys cause they left. Im pissed at both of those guys too, but im not gonna be an hypocrite trying to convince myself that they we're useless

Edited by SterioDesign

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People just seems to want to find excuses to feel better about the team. Like a guy who got dump by his gf, then she was gonna get fat in a few years, he deserved better, etc etc etc. Thats what a bunch of people looks like now, a bunch of butthurt guys bashing guys cause they left. Im pissed at both of those guys too, but im not gonna be an hypocrite trying to convince myself that they we're useless

Another relationship analogy. Who hurt you, SD?

You're like the guy who's pining over some girl that left him and can't bear to hear his buddies make fun of her.

I'm sorry, but most of us don't want to sit around slitting our wrists and saying "man I really miss Zach and Kovy" all day. Nobody says they don't want Zach. They said they don't want Zach for 13 years. Big difference.

This team has been put together a certain way from the goal out with defensively responsible forwards for 25 years. It very rarely has flashy forwards. Why would you pick a team that so clearly is against your preferred style of hockey?

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Another relationship analogy. Who hurt you, SD?

You're like the guy who's pining over some girl that left him and can't bear to hear his buddies make fun of her.

I'm sorry, but most of us don't want to sit around slitting our wrists and saying "man I really miss Zach and Kovy" all day. Nobody says they don't want Zach. They said they don't want Zach for 13 years. Big difference.

This team has been put together a certain way from the goal out with defensively responsible forwards for 25 years. It very rarely has flashy forwards. Why would you pick a team that so clearly is against your preferred style of hockey?

 

youre going around everything i said buddy. means you have nothing to say about it i assume

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I'm sorry, but most of us don't want to sit around slitting our wrists and saying "man I really miss Zach and Kovy" all day. Nobody says they don't want Zach. They said they don't want Zach for 13 years. Big difference.

 

SD, read above and comprehend, or get someone to translate it into French for you.  People aren't saying Zach and Kovy would suck in the immediate short term (though Kovy clearly appears to have lost something since his injury), but they are saying that, when you factor in their respective deals, neither one was ideal long-term, or even mid-term.  And to have two of those deals on your books...yikes.  What we have seen is that players on seemingly "immovable" deals do sometimes get dealt (Carter, Richards, Gomer), but it's still not ideal to have players on contracts like that (and as we know, the Devils' finances were hardly on solid footing and there wasn't an obvious resolution initially).  That's one thing the new CBA got right, in putting an end to those 10-15 year deals...it's saving GMs from themselves, because we'd still be seeing deals like that getting signed every year if not for the new rules in place. 

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youre going around everything i said buddy. means you have nothing to say about it i assume

 

"I'm not your buddy, guy".

 

I have the same to say about it that we've all been saying for 2 years. Zach would have been great to have, however, not worth a 7.5 cap hit for 13 years. Same with Kovalchuk. He'd be making 11.3 million real money this season and next. He wasn't impressive in the KHL. What many of us have been saying, which is pretty clear, is that we lucked out on him leaving before he got bad. He had a great second half in 2011, and great 2012, and was ineffective in 2013. So he had 1 and 1/2 good seasons and 1 and 1/2 bad ones in his 3 year run. Those decade long contracts are exciting for one day when they get signed, and then you have to deal with the realities of them. I'm glad there's a limit on contracts now.

 

It's like when you break up with a girl and then find out that meth habit you suspected she had was real after all, and now you're glad you got out before it got bad.

 

SD, read above and comprehend, or get someone to translate it into French for you.  People aren't saying Zach and Kovy would suck in the immediate short term (though Kovy clearly appears to have lost something since his injury), but they are saying that, when you factor in their respective deals, neither one was ideal long-term, or even mid-term.  And to have two of those deals on your books...yikes.  What we have seen is that players on seemingly "immovable" deals do sometimes get dealt (Carter, Richards, Gomer), but it's still not ideal to have players on contracts like that (and as we know, the Devils' finances were hardly on solid footing and there wasn't an obvious resolution initially).  That's one thing the new CBA got right, in putting an end to those 10-15 year deals...it's saving GMs from themselves, because we'd still be seeing deals like that getting signed every year if not for the new rules in place. 

 

Thank you.

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So far Parise has been worth it, which I didn't really think would happen.  Of course it didn't help Zach that he had to play with Kovalchuk his last year in NJ - hard to get a sense of his value in that situation.

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So far Parise has been worth it, which I didn't really think would happen.  Of course it didn't help Zach that he had to play with Kovalchuk his last year in NJ - hard to get a sense of his value in that situation.

 

Not all that surprised...I think a lot of people thought the first 3-4 years of that contract would net a good performance return.  It's what happens after that.  But we know how this works...if the Wild wins a Cup in the next couple of years, and Zach's a huge part of it (or even if he isn't), the last several years on his deal won't be scrutinized nearly as hard. 

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Not all that surprised...I think a lot of people thought the first 3-4 years of that contract would net a good performance return.  It's what happens after that.  But we know how this works...if the Wild wins a Cup in the next couple of years, and Zach's a huge part of it (or even if he isn't), the last several years on his deal won't be scrutinized nearly as hard. 

 

it will be scary. let's say that he's "zach parise" for the next 5 years which takes him to 36 years old starting in 17/18. he will STILL have 3 more years at $9MM before an $8MM and $6MM. at best - he's dustin brown for those 5 years and that's paying a lot of $ for that.

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So far Parise has been worth it, which I didn't really think would happen.  Of course it didn't help Zach that he had to play with Kovalchuk his last year in NJ - hard to get a sense of his value in that situation.

 

I agree, the 7.5 cap hit is worth it as of today if he were a Devil.  However, that 13 years is going to hurt Minnesota eventually. 

You can slice it anyway you want to SD, but you can't be serious if you're going to sit there and say 13 years of Zach Parise won't have any lows or any low points. 

 

Another relationship analogy. Who hurt you, SD?

You're like the guy who's pining over some girl that left him and can't bear to hear his buddies make fun of her.

I'm sorry, but most of us don't want to sit around slitting our wrists and saying "man I really miss Zach and Kovy" all day. Nobody says they don't want Zach. They said they don't want Zach for 13 years. Big difference.

This team has been put together a certain way from the goal out with defensively responsible forwards for 25 years. It very rarely has flashy forwards. Why would you pick a team that so clearly is against your preferred style of hockey?

The bolded.  Thank you DD56, especially that 2nd bolded part.  It's been time to move on from this bullsh!t for the past 2 years.  The team moves on very quickly, but it's fan that can't. 

 

"I'm not your buddy, guy".

 

I have the same to say about it that we've all been saying for 2 years. Zach would have been great to have, however, not worth a 7.5 cap hit for 13 years. Same with Kovalchuk. He'd be making 11.3 million real money this season and next. He wasn't impressive in the KHL. What many of us have been saying, which is pretty clear, is that we lucked out on him leaving before he got bad. He had a great second half in 2011, and great 2012, and was ineffective in 2013. So he had 1 and 1/2 good seasons and 1 and 1/2 bad ones in his 3 year run. Those decade long contracts are exciting for one day when they get signed, and then you have to deal with the realities of them. I'm glad there's a limit on contracts now.

 

It's like when you break up with a girl and then find out that meth habit you suspected she had was real after all, and now you're glad you got out before it got bad.

 

 

Thank you.

You're killing me.  I'm dead.  Can't do it.  :haha2:

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Lol SD your always good for a laugh, keep fighting the fight especially in the summer when there isn't much going on in the hockey world and we need some entertainment.

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This fan base seems to like to accept mediocrity in the team play and try to focus on "well hey we suck but hey! at least we're not overpaying for this top player! (eventhough we're overpaying for other guys pretty baddly) or "I wouldnt want this guy who scores a lot, cause he's not top notch defensively, no i dont want his goals, i'd rather see our team play awesome defensively but not being able to score a damn goal."

 

People just seems to want to find excuses to feel better about the team. Like a guy who got dump by his gf, then she was gonna get fat in a few years, he deserved better, etc etc etc. Thats what a bunch of people looks like now, a bunch of butthurt guys bashing guys cause they left. Im pissed at both of those guys too, but im not gonna be an hypocrite trying to convince myself that they we're useless

No one has ever said these guys were useless.  I've called Kovy a quitter, because that's what he is.  He left for an inferior league.  We are not accepting mediocrity, we are moving forward, to quote Mr. Lamiorello.  There's nothing wrong with drinking a little bit of Kool-Aid, even if can be a little bitter sometimes.  No one has ever said we don't want to score goals. 

So you're trying to tell me that you would rather overpay for a guy and give him too much term, even if it hurts the team in the long run when this player is over 40 and the team has to buy him out or try to trade him?  This is a team.  It's not about one or even two superstar players. 

I'm not pissed at either of Kovy or Parise anymore.  It's 2 years over and neither are worth my time or emotions because based on their actions, they didn't want to be New Jersey Devils.

Edited by RizzMB30

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Oops, I forgot that ice hockey is a team sport.  Guess you did too. 

 

Granted, English is not my first language, but I don't see how you got *that* out of my post.

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For me personally, I loved the guy but I was disheartened by his play in 2013, imagine we were paying 11 million for that...yuck. That's the way I see it, we got out of a bad contract because the player isn't what he used to be.

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