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Zubie#8

Sabres Leafs Brawl - Clarkson Leaves the Bench

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Fighting out of real animosity is fine and actually entertaining.  It's the canned wrestling matches between Cam Jannsen and PL3 that are just boring.  I take that time to go to the bathroom. 

+ 1. There needs to be a penalty of some sort for dirty play, and until the league gets better at enforcing its own rules in a way that makes sense, we're going to see real fights. That said, there's no reason for guys to do permanent damage to themselves by bare knuckle boxing for entertainment, or to justify their roster spots. If you can't play, you shouldn't be in the NHL. The league would be better off if guys like Clarkson and Salvador took care of the fighting.

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Wow, using his stick as a weapon...twice !    And while the player is involved with someone else.  I think Kessel should get 20 games for that.  The League cannot tolerate using the stick like this at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, the NHL will give him 2 games.....

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Fighting out of real animosity is fine and actually entertaining.  It's the canned wrestling matches between Cam Jannsen and PL3 that are just boring.  I take that time to go to the bathroom. 

 

This happens once in a blue moon.  This brawl was apparently triggered when two guys fighting for NHL spots decided to fight.  The Sabres didn't like how that fight went so they sent out their goon.

 

+ 1. There needs to be a penalty of some sort for dirty play, and until the league gets better at enforcing its own rules in a way that makes sense, we're going to see real fights. That said, there's no reason for guys to do permanent damage to themselves by bare knuckle boxing for entertainment, or to justify their roster spots. If you can't play, you shouldn't be in the NHL. The league would be better off if guys like Clarkson and Salvador took care of the fighting.

 

We hardly ever see real fights.  Teams don't want players like Clarkson risking their necks in actual fights - the better Clarkson has gotten, the less he's been fighting.  Until the NHL continues the charade of maintaining fighting despite it mostly being a sideshow, we'll see events like last night's.

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I watched long enough to see Kessel return to Scott while he is entangled with Clarkson, and Kessel again leads with his stick.  Sure he did not hit hard but this is absolutely crazy.

So I say 5 games for each whak with the stick for a total of 15 regular season games....

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Weird seeing Clarkson wearing # 71.  Thought he was Rupp for a second.  Stupid move on his part to come off the bench. 

 

Kessel should definitely be suspended for his Racki-like stickwork there, but there is no way Scott should be going after him.  Kessel is 1/2 his size and is not a fighter.  I thought he did a good job fighting whoever that other Sabre was that was more his size.

 

Bernier beat the hell out of Miller.  Always fun to watch a goalie fight for the reasons stated above.

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to use your stick as a weapon is not only an extremely bitch move but its dangerous as well, so much for being a professional.. you shouldn't be talking sh!t or going back and forth with anyone if you're not going to be prepared to throw it down.

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How the hell is leaving the bench 10 games? 10 games is for serious infractions like stick to the head stuff.

 

They instituted that suspension to get rid of the bench clearing brawls from hockey in '93 or '94 I believe.

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Scott's a goon, Kessel is a punk, and Clarkson is an idiot.

Oh, and goalie fights rock.

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They instituted that suspension to get rid of the bench clearing brawls from hockey in '93 or '94 I believe.

 

and the NHL is worse off for it. Taking money out of its own pockets

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I respect Clarkson's intention. However the rule is the rule and regardless of intention suspension was rightful. However (and I might get flamed for this) I think a 10 game suspension was a small price to play for protecting your fellow teammate. Face it if this was a year ago and it was Clarkson and Kovy instead of Clarkson and Kessel we would be all defending this and wishing for appeals. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be suspended but I act definately respect his motive for coming off the bench.

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I respect Clarkson's intention. However the rule is the rule and regardless of intention suspension was rightful. However (and I might get flamed for this) I think a 10 game suspension was a small price to play for protecting your fellow teammate. Face it if this was a year ago and it was Clarkson and Kovy instead of Clarkson and Kessel we would be all defending this and wishing for appeals. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be suspended but I act definately respect his motive for coming off the bench.

It's a pretty black and white rule. I seriously doubt we'd all be praising him here just because he got suspended 10 games for us rather than the Leafs.

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If he left the bench to protect a player like Elias I seriously doubt we'd be saying he should have been rightfully suspended. (Again even though the suspension was correct)

Edited by TheMazz

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 Until the NHL continues the charade of maintaining fighting despite it mostly being a sideshow, we'll see events like last night's.

 

Side show? Without even this watered down version of protection(instigator, helmet, visor,  3 fights in a game rules) the players would be running around and boarding the snot out of anyone that can play. The amount of high sticks would also be increased, as well as low bridge hits, and slew footing. Most NHL players would tell you it would become more dangerous without having these guys in the game.  I agree that staged fights need to go, but there most certainly is a need for this element in the game.  It's easy for people that gauge the game on possession numbers(not a knock) to overlook this aspect because they do not understand what occurs at ice level. It's a tough place that is kept in check by the boogie men.  Everyone is scared of the boogeyman.

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If he left the bench to protect a player like Elias I seriously doubt we'd be saying he should have been rightfully suspended. (Again even though the suspension was correct)

 

No, it's a black and white rule. All the players know this rule. Despite knowing the consequences of the rule, Clarkson chose to jump out onto the ice, making it a 6 vs. 5 line brawl. You don't think that's as cowardly as one of Kessel's slashes, somehow feeling that the 5 guys on the ice can't handle themselves so savior Wendell Clarkson needs to jump in and tip over their advantage by a man? It's asinine and idiotic.

 

Devils fans would absolutely be pissed off at Clarkson, regardless of the circumstances. It's not some subtle rule that players may not be aware of, they all know this rule and its consequences.

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Side show? Without even this watered down version of protection(instigator, helmet, visor,  3 fights in a game rules) the players would be running around and boarding the snot out of anyone that can play. The amount of high sticks would also be increased, as well as low bridge hits, and slew footing. Most NHL players would tell you it would become more dangerous without having these guys in the game.  I agree that staged fights need to go, but there most certainly is a need for this element in the game.  It's easy for people that gauge the game on possession numbers(not a knock) to overlook this aspect because they do not understand what occurs at ice level. It's a tough place that is kept in check by the boogie men.  Everyone is scared of the boogeyman.

 

Instigating fights is illegal.  Slew foots, low bridges, and high sticks are also all illegal, and if intentional, suspendable plays.  NHL players have been told by the media and coaches that enforcers are necessary, but they are almost a non-entity at the NHL level.  They don't play critical minutes and they seldom fight anyone but each other.  I don't really see what protection they add - plenty of guys get run despite the presence (or non-presence) of an enforcer.  It's just not something teams need in this day and age, but it's going to take another generation of coaches and general managers for them to finally be banished from the league.  

Edited by Triumph

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The amount of Leafs fans putting Clarkson on a pedestal after this is really disconcerting. They're a cult, if I've ever seen one. Not one mention of the real hero, Ashton, who flew right up to John Scott and pretty much took him down and neutralized the situation (before Clarkson jumped onto the ice).

 

I'm trying to be objective as possible, but really, when you examine the facts, the only clear-cut rules that were broken were broken by Clarkson and Kessel. Everything else is up for interpretation, including Scott's initial instigator. How many times does an instigator penalty get called and that's the end of the story, no suspension, just a standard penalty called. But Kessel and Clarkson break two very serious and CLEAR black and white rules. Try to tell a Leaf fan that, though.

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By the time Clarkson leaves the bench, Scott is already involved with someone other than that stick-swinging, stomach-poking Kessel.

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Instigating fights is illegal.  Slew foots, low bridges, and high sticks are also all illegal, and if intentional, suspendable plays.  NHL players have been told by the media and coaches that enforcers are necessary, but they are almost a non-entity at the NHL level.  They don't play critical minutes and they seldom fight anyone but each other.  I don't really see what protection they add - plenty of guys get run despite the presence (or non-presence) of an enforcer.  It's just not something teams need in this day and age, but it's going to take another generation of coaches and general managers for them to finally be banished from the league.  

 

 It's just not something teams need in this day and age, but it's going to take another generation of coaches and general managers for them to finally be banished from the league.  

 So says the guy the analyzes shots for and against. Go down to ice level and do some research instead of looking at spreadsheets, then you just might just understand the game a little better. Better yet, go get some skates and play the sport where you will not only see puck possession in action, but you will also learn to quickly respect the game and if you don't you better be ready to answer the bell.

 

I agree that the Scott's of the league are indeed on their way out in the next 3-5 years,but then I expect to see more of what you are starting to see now, the hybrid enforcer.  This is why Clarkson just got that fat paycheck.  However, if you don't have a hybrid teams are opting for a goon and now you have the Scott's of the world on the roster. Yet, with roster spots being value so highly, the hybrid is the enforcer of the future. 

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This is why enforcers are necessary in this league.  You just can't have a guy like Scott run one of your super star players.  Kessel shouldn't have been out there with that goon with the Leafs having the last change.

Edited by capo

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Clarkson got his 10-games.  Sucks, but the rule is pretty clear.

Nothing like missing 12% of the season's games for your new team right off the bat.  Stupid decision Clarky.

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 So says the guy the analyzes shots for and against. Go down to ice level and do some research instead of looking at spreadsheets, then you just might just understand the game a little better. Better yet, go get some skates and play the sport where you will not only see puck possession in action, but you will also learn to quickly respect the game and if you don't you better be ready to answer the bell.

 

I agree that the Scott's of the league are indeed on their way out in the next 3-5 years,but then I expect to see more of what you are starting to see now, the hybrid enforcer.  This is why Clarkson just got that fat paycheck.  However, if you don't have a hybrid teams are opting for a goon and now you have the Scott's of the world on the roster. Yet, with roster spots being value so highly, the hybrid is the enforcer of the future. 

 

Clarkson is not a hybrid enforcer.  He doesn't fight heavyweights, typically.  He fights players in his weight class, and he's fought less the more ice time he has gotten.  Clarkson is not stopping someone like John Scott from running the opposition's star, if he wanted to.

 

There's just zero evidence that these guys protect anything.  As Black Dog Hates Skunks put it:

 

"Colton Orr was on the ice last year when Kadri was a target and he stood by while Kadri ended up in a brawl, having to defend himself. When David Steckel knocked Crosby woozy the Pens' lineup that night included Engellund, Aaron Asham and Mike Rupp. When Marc Savard lost his career to Matt Cooke the guy who passed him the puck was Milan Lucic. When Taylor Hall fought Dorsett and Avery sucker punched Smid and Hemsky got run night after night Steve MacIntyre was sitting on the bench. He did not deter these actions, no more than Lucic stopped Cooke from ruining Savard's life."

 

If there wasn't an instigator rule maybe these guys do something, but as it stands, they just don't play critical minutes, so they're not on the ice when star players are being run.

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"Hybrid enforcer".   LOL, Clarkson isn't anything remotely resembling an enforcer and never was.    They paid him to be a top 6 scoring winger, not for this BS.  There had to be *someone* on the ice that was capable of handling this.   If not, Carlyle is an idiot.

 

PS:  Scott isn't nearly as effective at this as his size makes people think he is.   Kessel would have survived if he man'd up and didn't start swinging his stick like an idiot.

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"Hybrid enforcer". LOL, Clarkson isn't anything remotely resembling an enforcer and never was. They paid him to be a top 6 scoring winger, not for this BS. There had to be *someone* on the ice that was capable of handling this. If not, Carlyle is an idiot.

PS: Scott isn't nearly as effective at this as his size makes people think he is. Kessel would have survived if he man'd up and didn't start swinging his stick like an idiot.

While I agree that Scott isn't the best fighter, being nearly a foot taller than your opponent is a giant advantage.

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max you're usually one of the smarter posters but that's really off the mark.  Scott's 6'8 270, Kessel's 6' 202.  One hit and Kessel's in never-never land.  And Scott may not be a good fighter but it ain't like Kessel fights 'at all' either.  I don't think someone that has 139 PIM's in 504 career NHL games is going to be confused for a heavyweight.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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