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Blown01NJ

This Red Bulls commercial

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I don't understand why our politicians don't grow some balls and tell these teams that if you want US to pay for your stadium, you better represent US in your team name.  How many other viable options did these teams have?

 

To me it matters.  I feel no connection to the Red Bulls at all.  I don't care that they happen to be the closest team.  I am not and have never been a New Yorker, so I do not align myself with the New York team.  I have been a Jets fan since I was in first grade, but I have a hard time getting that enthusiastic about them because they call themselves New York, and if for some reason the Giants were to change their name to the New Jersey Giants, I would switch allegiances.

Edited by devilsfan26

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If that logic holds true, then the Detroit Pistons, Ottawa Senators, NY Jets and NY Giants need to start building new arenas or find new places to play real soon.

 

With regard to the Pistons, at least Auburn Hills and Detroit are in the same state. And re: the Senators, at least Ottawa and Kanata (?) are both in Ontario.

 

Since Day 1, I always believed that the Giants and Jets should've been pressured to change their names when they came here. But although I disagree with why they did not, I can grudgingly accept it -- each team had a history in New York and were afraid to turn off their respective fanbases.

 

But the Red Bulls had no such history. Their association with New York was entirely made up by them.

I don't understand why our politicians don't grow some balls and tell these teams that if you want US to pay for your stadium, you better represent US in your team name.  How many other viable options did these teams have?

 

To me it matters.  I feel no connection to the Red Bulls at all.  I don't care that they happen to be the closest team.  I am not and have never been a New Yorker, so I do not align myself with the New York team.  I have been a Jets fan since I was in first grade, but I have a hard time getting that enthusiastic about them because they call themselves New York, and if for some reason the Giants were to change their name to the New Jersey Giants, I would switch allegiances.

 

+ 1

 

Exactly!

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I can't believe how many people have so little respect for where they're from. I expect this stuff from an rb forum, not a devils one

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But although I disagree with why they did not, I can grudgingly accept it -- each team had a history in New York and were afraid to turn off their respective fanbases.

 

But the Red Bulls had no such history. Their association with New York was entirely made up by them.

 

Yeah, because the previous "brand" had sh!t the bed. Attendance was terrible, the franchise was the laughingstock of the league. 

 

So they bought it, they planned out what would later be the Harrison arena with the connection to PATH and NJ Transit/Amtrak nearby. And calling it a "New York" team so that the growing demographic of young professionals from Downtown Manhattan and Brooklyn would come to games there on the subway absolutely made sense.

 

Not sound racist, but they decided to sign more European players instead of gimmicky Mexican and South American has-been players that used to target the local Hudson County demographic (where I live), which was a long-time failing strategy. French Thierry Henry, players from the English and German leagues, etc...

 

This is was a completely 180 degree Rebranding 101. It's like sprucing up a failing bankrupt deli in Jersey City and rebranding it as the Gotham Deli instead of the Pine Barrens Deli, and adding wraps and salads to what was already existing on the menu. As a local, 10 minutes away from the arena, 1) I still get to watch soccer in the vicinity; 2) they gave us a better arena; and 3) they're actually doing really well now.

 

I honestly don't think we'd have a franchise anymore if they rebranded in 2007 to be the New Jersey Metros. There'd be an expansion team in line to take our place faster than you could say "N.J."..

Edited by DJ Eco

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I think it's important to not the market size difference when people bring a team here like the Red Bulls and they are not actually from the area. Red Bulls was a mized company just like the Newark arena when everything started. Over time the current ownership took over and they were looking at the 8 million people in NYC versus the 8 million people in the state of NJ. Ulitmately we hurt ourselves because we sometime sell ourselves as a 6th borough and enjoy the business that brings us and other times we want our autonomy. I remeber a few years back that they tried to pass legislation that woudl require any team that took public financing to be required to include the states name.

 

Also to the comment from Coffee cake, I think you need to understand that NJ has a huge NY transplate population so it gets complicated. I love my state but I get that we have those that are drawn by the international reputation that NYC has.

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If that logic holds true, then the Detroit Pistons, Ottawa Senators, NY Jets and NY Giants need to start building new arenas or find new places to play real soon.

dont forget them Cowboys

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Yeah, because the previous "brand" had sh!t the bed. Attendance was terrible, the franchise was the laughingstock of the league. 

 

So they bought it, they planned out what would later be the Harrison arena with the connection to PATH and NJ Transit/Amtrak nearby. And calling it a "New York" team so that the growing demographic of young professionals from Downtown Manhattan and Brooklyn would come to games there on the subway absolutely made sense.

 

Not sound racist, but they decided to sign more European players instead of gimmicky Mexican and South American has-been players that used to target the local Hudson County demographic (where I live), which was a long-time failing strategy. French Thierry Henry, players from the English and German leagues, etc...

 

This is was a completely 180 degree Rebranding 101. It's like sprucing up a failing bankrupt deli in Jersey City and rebranding it as the Gotham Deli instead of the Pine Barrens Deli, and adding wraps and salads to what was already existing on the menu. As a local, 10 minutes away from the arena, 1) I still get to watch soccer in the vicinity; 2) they gave us a better arena; and 3) they're actually doing really well now.

 

I honestly don't think we'd have a franchise anymore if they rebranded in 2007 to be the New Jersey Metros. There'd be an expansion team in line to take our place faster than you could say "N.J."..

 

If they had named the team the New Jersey Red Bulls or Newark Red Bulls those same young professionals from Manhattan and Brooklyn could still have come to the brand new arena/stadium.

 

Believe it or not, there are a lot of New Jersey Devils fans from New York who come to Prudential Center in Newark even though New York City has two hockey teams. Those fans don't seem to mind the N.J. name.

 

Don't get me wrong. I understand the improvements that have been made to the soccer team. Even though I haven't been to a game in the new stadium, I'm sure everyone is having fun.

 

All I'm saying is it didn't have to happen the way they did it.

 

It's just ridiculous that the team that plays in Newark is called New Jersey but the team that plays one town over in Harrison is called New York. Yet both towns are in New Jersey.

 

Only in New Jersey is that OK.

Edited by 95Crash

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dont forget them Cowboys

 

Also the 49ers are moving to Santa Clara next year.

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nobody around here cares about them !!

 

I do!  And there are a lot of 49ers fans on the East Coast.

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Not to dismiss Jersey at all, but I just want to stress again that northern NJ IS part of the NY sports region, just like much of northern Indiana is part of the Chicago sports region, the Pacific northwest is sometimes part of the Seattle sports region, much of the south is part of the Atlanta sports region, etc. In America (and this is different in Europe, where smaller communities can support a soccer team), our sports teams tend to be based out of cities, and fans identify with those teams if they're from the region, even if the teams don't mention them. It's not a slap in the face to the state I grew up in to say that I grew up a New York sports fan (even though I hated the Rags). Again, most of our parents grew up before NJ had teams. If we started watching sports with them (I did), we probably grew up on NY teams. Furthermore, the only sport in which NY and NJ are distinct fan bases is hockey, because both places have teams. If we include soccer as a major sport, NY currently has 5 major sports, so there are 4 sports in which New Yorkers and New Jerseyans, at least those from north Jersey, most likely share a team. I am therefore proud to call myself a New York sports fan unless the Devils are on, especially when my fellow New York sports fans, including many people from Jersey, Connecticut, and upstate represent themselves well, and, while Rags fans are idiots, most of them time, NY sports fans are great. I think NJ is unique to some degree, because we have an inferiority complex from being sh@t on. I have the same inferiority complex, but I don't let it ruin my love for/pride in NY. I've lived in NJ and Brooklyn. I love both for different reasons. I'm more likely to settle down in Brooklyn, but when people ask where I'm from, I say NJ with pride. If we sh!t on New York, we're no better than the people who sh!t on us. 

 

As for the Red Bulls, I would have no problem with them being the NJ Red Bulls, especially if the new team establishes a footprint in NY, but I also have no problem with them aligning themselves with the center of the sports region, just like the Giants and Jets did, and just like any number of other franchises did. We're closer to NYC than most of New York. There's nothing wrong with identifying with it. 


I can't believe how many people have so little respect for where they're from. I expect this stuff from an rb forum, not a devils one

Because disagreeing with your simplistic opinion must be disrespecting where we're from...

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I do harbor a decent amount of resentment towards the hate NJ gets from New Yorkers.. We've all heard that the only good thing about NJ is the view of NYC.. My buddy's friends from the city would not even consider living in Hoboken because "you really expect me to live in Jersey?!", so now he pays $1,600 a month in a 6 person concrete cell (pretty much that small) so that he can live in the city with them

 

 

Having lived in NY, NJ, and Ohio (and my brother lives in St. Louis), I actually think New Yorkers aren't the problem here. Most New Yorkers (not all, there are some douchebags, but a lot of them are NY transplants with inferiority complexes) appreciate NY for what it is. A lot of people I lived with and work with in NY see NJ as a better place to raise kids, a place to settle down, and a nice spot to explore on weekends. I've had people who have lived in NY their whole lives tell me about restaurants I grew up near that I'd never tried. People from outside the region are a lot more likely to make what exit jokes, or call us NY's dump (even though most locals know NY's most impressive dump is Staten Island, yeah Fresh Kills!). I hate the way the superbowl was covered until we made noise, I hate the skyline shots during our games. I hate the Nets for never embracing us when they had the chance, and leaving as soon as they got a building, even though they had an awesome building here. But I don't buy that any of that is New York's fault. NJ has a bad reputation. It's not fair. I get it. But a lot of that reputation comes from people who have never been here.

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Not to dismiss Jersey at all, but I just want to stress again that northern NJ IS part of the NY sports region, just like much of northern Indiana is part of the Chicago sports region, the Pacific northwest is sometimes part of the Seattle sports region, much of the south is part of the Atlanta sports region, etc. In America (and this is different in Europe, where smaller communities can support a soccer team), our sports teams tend to be based out of cities, and fans identify with those teams if they're from the region, even if the teams don't mention them. It's not a slap in the face to the state I grew up in to say that I grew up a New York sports fan (even though I hated the Rags). Again, most of our parents grew up before NJ had teams. If we started watching sports with them (I did), we probably grew up on NY teams. Furthermore, the only sport in which NY and NJ are distinct fan bases is hockey, because both places have teams. If we include soccer as a major sport, NY currently has 5 major sports, so there are 4 sports in which New Yorkers and New Jerseyans, at least those from north Jersey, most likely share a team. I am therefore proud to call myself a New York sports fan unless the Devils are on, especially when my fellow New York sports fans, including many people from Jersey, Connecticut, and upstate represent themselves well, and, while Rags fans are idiots, most of them time, NY sports fans are great. I think NJ is unique to some degree, because we have an inferiority complex from being sh@t on. I have the same inferiority complex, but I don't let it ruin my love for/pride in NY. I've lived in NJ and Brooklyn. I love both for different reasons. I'm more likely to settle down in Brooklyn, but when people ask where I'm from, I say NJ with pride. If we sh!t on New York, we're no better than the people who sh!t on us. 

 

As for the Red Bulls, I would have no problem with them being the NJ Red Bulls, especially if the new team establishes a footprint in NY, but I also have no problem with them aligning themselves with the center of the sports region, just like the Giants and Jets did, and just like any number of other franchises did. We're closer to NYC than most of New York. There's nothing wrong with identifying with it. 

Because disagreeing with your simplistic opinion must be disrespecting where we're from...

 

To me, the issue is not about hating New York. I don't hate New York at all. My entire family (both parents' families) lived in NYC at one time. I was even born there before my family moved me to N.J. at age 1. I always enjoy visiting NYC. The historical buildings/landmarks, the restaurants, the theaters, etc. ... there is no other place in the world like it.

 

And I understand that northern New Jersey is part of the New York market -- just as southern New Jersey is part of the Philly market.

 

But all that being said, New Jersey is not New York. It's its own place, a state, equal in name recognition to Arizona, Colorado, Minnesota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah -- all states with pro sports teams that use their state name. And it has greater name recognition than Columbus, San Jose, Green Bay, Jacksonville, Chivas -- all places with pro sports teams that use their respective names.

 

I think that's why some New Jerseyans have a hard time understanding why so many people in the state so easily accept and defend sports teams that play here and use the NY name. They have no qualms about proudly proclaiming being from Jersey and feel that by encouraging N.J.'s sports teams to use the NY name it takes away from N.J.'s own identity or uniqueness -- our own identity.

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If they had named the team the New Jersey Red Bulls or Newark Red Bulls those same young professionals from Manhattan and Brooklyn could still have come to the brand new arena/stadium.

 

Believe it or not, there are a lot of New Jersey Devils fans from New York who come to Prudential Center in Newark even though New York City has two hockey teams. Those fans don't seem to mind the N.J. name.

 

I really don't think so. "New Jersey" Devils works because it was a bold and ballsy move in the 1980s. And don't forget, the bold and ballsy move to make it a "New Jersey" team has been on the brink of failure many many times during our history. If it weren't for Lou, I have no doubt we'd be a Quebec team or somewhere else by now. Many of the kids who were fans during that era in the 80s or early 90s are in their 20s, 30s, and 40s, and have dispersed around the area: Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, Rockland County, NY... 

 

They still go to games because they're long-time Devils fans. Don't forget, it's only been 5-6 years that you can hop a PATH or NJ Transit train from Manhattan and go to a Devils game. This is a very new thing, but the franchise is not (it's a 31 year old thing). So the fanbase is there, and it's more or less established. My brother lived in Brooklyn and most recently in Manhattan and was one of those "young professionals going to a Devils game"; I work every day in Downtown Manhattan so I'm one of those too.

 

New York Red Bulls weren't going to come in here into this market, call themselves "New Jersey" and magically generate fan interest. With no competition in New York at the time, they needed as large a demographic grab as they could get. Being a New Jersey team, they wouldn't have been able to generate random interest in New York and the boroughs. I know tons of kids from Brooklyn and Queens that go to the games, who didn't use to go to NY/NJ Metrostars games. It's pretty telling.

Edited by DJ Eco

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NJ has a bad reputation. It's not fair. I get it. But a lot of that reputation comes from people who have never been here.

 

SPOT ON... Most people making New Jersey jokes are douchebag Manhattan/Brooklyn transplants from throughout the U.S. that hated their hometowns/home situations so much they moved cross-country.

 

Think about who's working at these TV channels like A&E, TLC, Bravo, MTV... You think local New Yorkers and New Jerseyans are getting TV or media writing jobs in the city's media sector? Hell no! Some wiry bitch from Kansas or Wisconsin, with a chip on her shoulder because she used to get made fun of, who lives in Brooklyn now with very similar people who think they're awesome because they're "making it" (except, they usually move back home after a few years because they can't cut it here), was probably the one who wrote the original "Jersey Shore" show pitch. And it makes me laugh my ass off to see those types of hipster people moving into Jersey City, and soon Newark.

 

These shows came at the right place and right time and now people around the world have a very specific and negative image of "New Jersey" like we're a bunch of clowns. I don't think New Yorkers are to fault for that, we're all pretty much similar, in the same boat.

Edited by DJ Eco

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But all that being said, New Jersey is not New York. It's its own place, a state, equal in name recognition to Arizona, Colorado, Minnesota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah -- all states with pro sports teams that use their state name.

 

The common thread are those are all larger states (in area) than New Jersey. You don't have your pick of 2-3 major football teams or baseball teams or hockey teams to go see within 45-60 minutes of your house. I think geography has A LOT more to do with it than we'd like to admit. 

 

New Jersey was called "the Crossroads of the American Revolution" and geographically, that still holds up as far as sports loyalties are concerned. We're such a small state, I don't see it changing anytime soon.

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But all that being said, New Jersey is not New York. It's its own place, a state, equal in name recognition to Arizona, Colorado, Minnesota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah -- all states with pro sports teams that use their state name. And it has greater name recognition than Columbus, San Jose, Green Bay, Jacksonville, Chivas -- all places with pro sports teams that use their respective names.

 

I think that's why some New Jerseyans have a hard time understanding why so many people in the state so easily accept and defend sports teams that play here and use the NY name. They have no qualms about proudly proclaiming being from Jersey and feel that by encouraging N.J.'s sports teams to use the NY name it takes away from N.J.'s own identity or uniqueness -- our own identity.

And that's why the Devils are New Jersey. They're a distinct team, with a distinct fan base, that is separate from New York. We're not the Rangers. The Red Bulls are not a Jersey team. They're the whole markets team, and that market is New York, a market which includes places like Connecticut as well. I admit NJ has more of a claim, because the buildings are here, but I don't feel that calling a team New York trivializes NJ, unless it's a situation like Devils Rangers. It'll be interesting to see how things shake down when the new team comes to Queens, because the Red Bulls probably don't plan to concede the NY market they had dibs on beforehand.

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I asked this before and nobody really commented, but what if the new owners changed the name of the Devils to the NY Devils ??

it would piss me off personally

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I asked this before and nobody really commented, but what if the new owners changed the name of the Devils to the NY Devils ??

it would piss me off personally

 

 I don't think that will ever happen but I was talking with some people I work with and they brought up the new owners changing the name the Devils like the Devil Rays (Rays) did a few years back. 

 

For starters, I work/live in Orlando. Still part of the bible belt IMO. Anyway I told him that the Jersey Devil is part of New Jersey's folklore and it has nothing to do with religion. 

 

Boy would that suck though. Lets be glad NJ isn't a crazy religious state like Florida or any other Southern state.

Edited by Jerzey Devil

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 I don't think that will ever happen but I was talking with some people I work with and they brought up the new owners changing the name the Devils like the Devil Rays (Rays) did a few years back. 

 

For starters, I work/live in Orlando. Still part of the bible belt IMO. Anyway I told him that the Jersey Devil is part of New Jersey's folklore and it has nothing to do with religion. 

 

Boy would that suck though. Lets be glad NJ isn't a crazy religious state like Florida or any other Southern state.

There were a bunch of groups in Jersey that didnt want Devils as the name (even though its a folklore creature) as you said.

but I was really talikng about adding the NY and taking away the NJ (I dont think it would happen but ....)

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 I don't think that will ever happen but I was talking with some people I work with and they brought up the new owners changing the name the Devils like the Devil Rays (Rays) did a few years back. 

 

For starters, I work/live in Orlando. Still part of the bible belt IMO. Anyway I told him that the Jersey Devil is part of New Jersey's folklore and it has nothing to do with religion. 

 

Boy would that suck though. Lets be glad NJ isn't a crazy religious state like Florida or any other Southern state.

 

I think the Devil Rays' change was more because there are few two word nicknames for sports teams plus to change the culture of losing they had going on since they started as the Devil Rays. It'd be like if we were called the New Jersey Pine Devils (I couldn't think of a better version) and then we dropped the pine after 1991. I went to a Catholic school and never heard any of the nuns ever be offended by the name. Hell we had fundraising group games that they ran every year. Tried that with the Nets once and it really didn't go well.

 

I don't see what benefit the Devils would get switching the NJ to NY if they ever were to do so. It'd piss off the current New Jersey fanbase, there wouldn't be many if any converts now from NY, and NJ is an under serve in this area. Why go after the pie two other hockey teams are trying to get? If the Nets didn't move to Brooklyn but went with us to Newark they'd probably be more aggressive in doing so as well.

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There were a bunch of groups in Jersey that didnt want Devils as the name (even though its a folklore creature) as you said.

but I was really talikng about adding the NY and taking away the NJ (I dont think it would happen but ....)

Being a professional team from NJ is the main identity of this club and I can't envision any scenario where changing the name would happen or work to any benefit for the ownership group herein.  If the new owners ever did that, it would be a direct slap in the face to 95-99% of this fanbase.  I personally would still support the team, but would give up my season tickets in protest.  At the end of the day, the only things we as fans can do to show our displeasure is voice our concerns and, when things are not changed, stop spending money on the team.  Like almost everything else in life, money talks.

 

It will be interesting to see how the Red Bulls handle NYCFC starting play in a few years since that team will actually play and train in NYC.  I am willing to bet the new club will market itself as NY's only true MLS club, and tout their roots and ties to the city and state to draw fans.  

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Being a professional team from NJ is the main identity of this club and I can't envision any scenario where changing the name would happen or work to any benefit for the ownership group herein.  If the new owners ever did that, it would be a direct slap in the face to 95-99% of this fanbase.  I personally would still support the team, but would give up my season tickets in protest.  At the end of the day, the only things we as fans can do to show our displeasure is voice our concerns and, when things are not changed, stop spending money on the team.  Like almost everything else in life, money talks.

 

It will be interesting to see how the Red Bulls handle NYCFC starting play in a few years since that team will actually play and train in NYC.  I am willing to bet the new club will market itself as NY's only true MLS club, and tout their roots and ties to the city and state to draw fans.  

where will they be playing?

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I asked this before and nobody really commented, but what if the new owners changed the name of the Devils to the NY Devils ??

it would piss me off personally

I'd be pissed. The Nets are my least favorite basketball team for the way they shat on Jersey. When you're the NJ team and there is a separate, established New York team, I feel like you should respect your fans. I don't have a problem with the Jets, Giants, Red Bulls, because they're as much New York's teams as ours, so they can/should, at least from a business perspective, represent NY, which is the center of the market. The Devils are Jersey's team.

where will they be playing?

Probably Flushing Meadows, though there's been some opposition.

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I'd be pissed. The Nets are my least favorite basketball team for the way they shat on Jersey. When you're the NJ team and there is a separate, established New York team, I feel like you should respect your fans. I don't have a problem with the Jets, Giants, Red Bulls, because they're as much New York's teams as ours, so they can/should, at least from a business perspective, represent NY, which is the center of the market. The Devils are Jersey's team.

Probably Flushing Meadows, though there's been some opposition.

 

 

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