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GDT: Game 3 Devils @ Edmonton Senators 930pm MSG+

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the perils of the forechecking system.   when you get a lead and have to play some D.   The Deboer tenure has had a ton of blown large leads, you can even go back to the Panthers and Rangers series and see them.   They just have an uncanny ability to salvage something out of these games.

 

Most of them also involve horrendous goaltending, also a staple of the DeBoer era.  I don't think the forechecking system really has anything to do with blown leads.

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Brodeur is embarrassing himself, the franchise, the fans, and me personally.

I'm really excited to watch this for the rest of the season.

I'll pay everyone in this room $20 if the Devils make the playoffs.

Oh shut the fvck up. Brodeur is an embarrassment to the franchise? The dude is in his 40's. He sucked tonight. He may suck all season. But he's an embarrassment to the franchise? Are you 12?

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Most of them also involve horrendous goaltending, also a staple of the DeBoer era.  I don't think the forechecking system really has anything to do with blown leads.

 

You also don't think the quality they give up is that much when guys keep coming in all alone in some fashion.   I'm not saying he's good anymore but they do not help their goalies at all.   They managed to play their blood from a stone game in the second half of 10-11 with Marty and Moose and win low scoring games.

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Haha. Big z only posts when the devils lose or play bad. Stfu your an embarrassment to us devils fans.. Harrold out fayne IN. not all the goals were Marty but he should be the back up. He'll be the best back up in the league but at starter he can't take pressure as much. He'll make a great save then give up the easy goal.

Edited by CarterforPresident

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People are really overreacting with Marty it isn't all his fault this game a lot of it is on the D. They are slow getting back. They are decent keeping the puck in the O-zone. They are just to sloppy in their own zone

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You also don't think the quality they give up is that much when guys keep coming in all alone in some fashion.   I'm not saying he's good anymore but they do not help their goalies at all.   They managed to play their blood from a stone game in the second half of 10-11 with Marty and Moose and win low scoring games.

 

And in 11-12, when they went to the Stanley Cup Finals.  Obviously the Devils' defense has to tighten things up here, but he's not good anymore.  And they do help the goalie by keeping dangerous shots like Andrew Ference's from being taken.  People can piss and moan about how shot quality exists blah blah blah, but it's not like Brodeur's been the greatest at stopping long shots either.

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People are really overreacting with Marty it isn't all his fault this game a lot of it is on the D. They are slow getting back. They are decent keeping the puck in the O-zone. They are just to sloppy in their own zone

 

Hell, I don't want him playing more than 25-30 games and I realize that.   The first time it happens with Schneider in net (and it will), maybe people will realize that they can't play D back on their heels.   You have to accept it because they do own the offensive zone most of the time, and like two years ago they at least salvaged points out of it, but it's fvcking ugly when it happens.

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And in 11-12, when they went to the Stanley Cup Finals.  Obviously the Devils' defense has to tighten things up here, but he's not good anymore.  And they do help the goalie by keeping dangerous shots like Andrew Ference's from being taken.  People can piss and moan about how shot quality exists blah blah blah, but it's not like Brodeur's been the greatest at stopping long shots either.

 

They won low scoring games in the playoffs?   A standard script was to score 2 or 3 early, blow it and then win the game late or in OT.   They were very resilient or fortunate, whether you're half full or half empty.    This will happen with Schneider in net too.   It may happen less, but when you give up as many huge honking open on the goalie chances as they do, you're giving up goals.   They easily could have had a similar goal bomb dropped on them in the 1st.

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They won low scoring games in the playoffs?   A standard script was to score 2 or 3 early, blow it and then win the game late or in OT.   They were very resilient or fortunate, whether you're half full or half empty.    This will happen with Schneider in net too.   It may happen less, but when you give up as many huge honking open on the goalie chances as they do, you're giving up goals.   They easily could have had a similar goal bomb dropped on them in the 1st.

 

It's foolish to suggest that this is anything besides random.  The Devils can only control scoring the first goal insofar as they outplay the other team by a particular margin.  They can only do the same with the 2nd goal likewise.  It was mostly randomness that had them up in those games by that much and randomness for how they blew those games as well. 

 

NJ isn't significantly below average in save percentage or shots allowed with a lead 5 on 5 under DeBoer.  It's an effect that exists in your head because it happened in significant games, but take last year - NJ held on a ton early on in the season, they weren't giving up anything.  It's just that gets forgotten.

 

They gave up 5 scoring chances in the 1st.  Sometimes you give up scoring chances - the Oilers got a few 2 on 1s, and yeah that's got to be tightened up a bit, but you give up scoring chances sometimes.

Edited by Triumph

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It's foolish to suggest that this is anything besides random.  The Devils can only control scoring the first goal insofar as they outplay the other team by a particular margin.  They can only do the same with the 2nd goal likewise.  It was mostly randomness that had them up in those games by that much and randomness for how they blew those games as well. 

 

NJ isn't significantly below average in save percentage or shots allowed with a lead 5 on 5 under DeBoer.  It's an effect that exists in your head because it happened in significant games, but take last year - NJ held on a ton early on in the season, they weren't giving up anything.  It's just that gets forgotten.

 

They gave up 5 scoring chances in the 1st.  Sometimes you give up scoring chances - the Oilers got a few 2 on 1s, and yeah that's got to be tightened up a bit, but you give up scoring chances sometimes.

 

Like I said I'm fine with the tradeoff, as long as they're scoring and they salvage.   It's just I don't expect it to stop because a better goalie plays more.   It may happen less, but I'm basically hoping he turns the 4 goal debacle into a 3 goal debacle and a 3 goal debacle into a 2 goal debacle.   They are just piss poor on their heels.   Keep in mind they did hang on and they didn't have the shot advantage early on last season... but they also didn't hold territory for any amount of time, which means you're not playing a whole lot of transition either.    The messes seem to start out of transition more often than not.

Edited by maxpower

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Well that was frustrating to watch but at least they got the loser point I suppose.

Nice to have natural goal scorers in Jagr and Ryder. Brunner has been great so far this year, really love his speed and ability to find the net. The PPG was set up nicely, hope to see more of that. Love having a big body like Clowe that can screen the goalie and have the skill to belong on the PP. Loved Salvador sticking up for Brodeur and Zidlicky too. Also like the skills Loktionov has shown so far, sure his defense isn't the best but he seems like a guy that could break out offensively this year.

Not going to get worked up over anything that happens in a shoot out but it was painful to watch Brodeur in it. Hope to see Fayne in tomorrow. I also hope that once Fayne gets in, he gets a consistent run of games. It's been awhile since he's played in a real game so I hope the coaches aren't overly critical of him if he makes a mistake as he shakes off some rust.

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Well it is 9am in the UK AND I AM KNACKERED. I was up at 2:15 am to make a cup of tea and watch. At 3-0 up I felt on top of the world. Right now I could cry. I really could. Same again tonight though for the Canucks game. Let's go Devils. I can feel a W

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Here's why I'm staying positive.  Each game, we're getting progressively better.  I think playing 3 highly skilled teams right out of the gate can only help the team going forward.

 

I'm not gonna get too upset over tonight's meltdown.  Besides the Taylor Hall goal, I can't really fault the Devils on the other 3.  You had a net mouth scramble on the first goal during a pk, a perfectly placed point shot on the 2nd goal, and a snipe job off a faceoff on the 3rd goal.  The Hall goal was the only goal due to a defensive breakdown.

 

But DeBoer better put in Josefson and Fayne soon.  Those two guys can really help on the defensive side of the puck.  I also think it's time for Olesz.  I haven't been too happy with the CBGB line.

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Nose joke or serious? Honest question lol

serious.

Jagr, Brunner and Ryder... Welcome new guys!

 

 

New players always come here and score a bunch, then we drain their skills away with defense .....

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Well it is 9am in the UK AND I AM KNACKERED. I was up at 2:15 am to make a cup of tea and watch. At 3-0 up I felt on top of the world. Right now I could cry. I really could.

Glad I didn't stay up until 7 a.m. (that's what it would take) to watch this crap. Man, 4 goals in the 3rd? Really?

 

I keep telling myself it's a matter of time before this new team gels and that this whole Canadian trip is a good opportunity for that and at some point during it they will really click and start playing good team-oriented hockey. Some good goaltending would help, too. Didn't think we'd have this kind of problems with this goaltending tandem. Hopefully Schneider gets a real boost from playing tonight in Vancouver.

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Glad I didn't stay up until 7 a.m. (that's what it would take) to watch this crap. Man, 4 goals in the 3rd? Really?

 

I keep telling myself it's a matter of time before this new team gels and that this whole Canadian trip is a good opportunity for that and at some point during it they will really click and start playing good team-oriented hockey. Some good goaltending would help, too. Didn't think we'd have this kind of problems with this goaltending tandem. Hopefully Schneider gets a real boost from playing tonight in Vancouver.

 

Yea but the 3 of the 4 goals were nobody's fault.  It was just perfect execution by the Oilers.  The 4th goal was inexcusable though.

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Could be worse? 0-1-2 is better than 0-3-0. Yay for math. Good to see the new guys contribute. Couldn't tell ya where Henrique and Zajac have been. Goooooootta beat the Canucks tomorrow..

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If this isn't enough to get Fayne in the lineup he'll probably be sitting all year, Volchenkov-Harrold is one of the most atrocious pairings i've ever seen on this team.

 

I predicted the Devils to have a top 10 defense this year.  But three things need to happen.

 

Greene would have to play like he can.

Fayne actually has to play, and if he does, play like he can.

Larsson had to have a breakout year.

 

So far, only one of those 3 has happened.  IMO, Greene, Fayne, and Larsson should be getting 20-25 minutes a game.  Salvador, Volchenkov, and Zidlicky should be getting no more than 15 minutes a game.  Zid and Volch are basically Special Teams guys at this point in their careers.  Volch is good on the pk, and Zid is good on the pp.

 

Could be worse? 0-1-2 is better than 0-3-0. Yay for math. Good to see the new guys contribute. Couldn't tell ya where Henrique and Zajac have been. Goooooootta beat the Canucks tomorrow..

 

Like I said, the team is getting better each game.  It's still only 3 games, and the team is beginning to gel.  The forwards need to be better in their own end.  Communication is key in that regard.  I'll officially start to worry if they're still losing 15 games into the season.  Vancouver doesn't have much forward depth, so I think this is a team we can take.  And their defense doesn't scare me.  Outside of Hamhuis, it's a pretty weak defense core.

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The Devils better NOT put me to bed in a bad mood after this Jet game :rant:

Thank goodness I taped the 3rd period and went to bed singing geno smith songs.  Im shocked this morning that we blew that game

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Well that was frustrating to watch but at least they got the loser point I suppose.

Nice to have natural goal scorers in Jagr and Ryder. Brunner has been great so far this year, really love his speed and ability to find the net. The PPG was set up nicely, hope to see more of that. Love having a big body like Clowe that can screen the goalie and have the skill to belong on the PP. Loved Salvador sticking up for Brodeur and Zidlicky too. Also like the skills Loktionov has shown so far, sure his defense isn't the best but he seems like a guy that could break out offensively this year.

Not going to get worked up over anything that happens in a shoot out but it was painful to watch Brodeur in it. Hope to see Fayne in tomorrow. I also hope that once Fayne gets in, he gets a consistent run of games. It's been awhile since he's played in a real game so I hope the coaches aren't overly critical of him if he makes a mistake as he shakes off some rust.

 

Agree on Brodeur...those shootout goals were painful...he just looked so slow on both of them. 

 

Though losing that 3-goal lead was excrutiating to watch, there are some positives here.  For one, the team is at least showing some ability to score.  The question of course becomes who scores when Brunner and Ryder don't?  Henrique and Zajac are going to have to put some in too...especially since the D doesn't figure to score many goals. 

 

Up until the end of the '11-'12 regular season, the Devils enjoyed a lot of success in shootouts...more than anyone else.  Obviously, there were teams at the other end of the spectrum who often couldn't get that extra point.  Due to the Devils being so damned good in shootouts, we all kind of came to take that extra point for granted.

 

Well, now we're finding out how the other half lives.  Clearly there's a randomness that goes into this event, but the fact is, we've seen over time that some shooters and goalies have a knack for success in it, while others don't.  Devils can spend all the time they want practicing it, but the days of them winning a lot of them are probably over for the time being.   

 

Re:  Fayne...it's a long season, and it's only going to be a matter of time before he gets his chance.  Hopefully when he inevitably DOES get it, it's a fair one. 

 

It's too early to go too crazy about the team's play to date, or to beat up on individual players (I maintain that this group needs time, and fans have to take the schedule into account), but my leash with Marty is short this year.  He seems to think he's supposed to get 50 or so games...I get why (it's all he knows, and the greats always have a problem distinguishing between what was and what is), but if Marty is struggling with a save% in the .880 range by mid-November and not looking good, then I'm sorry, I've got to give Schneider the majority of the playing time, even if Schneider isn't playing at his best by that time.  Marty won't like it, but the math is pretty simple:  one guy is 27, the other is 41.  If Scheider is hot and Marty not, it's pretty much a no-brainer.  If both are not, I can't expect a 41-year-old to pick it up...that's not a knock on Marty, that's just reality...so I'm going with the guy who's more likely to turn it around.  If Marty gets hot and Schneider is struggling (seems unlikely), sure, ride Marty a bit, but I don't see that happening. 

 

If this team is .500 or just a little bit below after 23 games, I think they did pretty well.  I'm not asking them to flourish right now...I'm asking them to tread water and not dig themselves too deep a hole.         

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Thank goodness I taped the 3rd period and went to bed singing geno smith songs.  Im shocked this morning that we blew that game

 

Edmonton has a ton of skill.  I'm not surprised, but it's still pretty frustrating to watch.

 

If this team is .500 or just a little bit below after 23 games, I think they did pretty well.  I'm not asking them to flourish right now...I'm asking them to tread water and not dig themselves too deep a hole.         

 

Well the thing is, this team can't afford to have a bad season this year.  No first rounder puts an immense amount of pressure on Lou this year.  I was expecting a slow start this year because of all the new faces.  And thankfully we play in a weak division this year.  Other than Pittsburgh, the entire division is up for grabs.  I still don't think the Isles, Canes, Flyers, and BJ's are better than the Devils.  I think the Rangers, Devils, and Caps are all gonna be fighting for those 2, 3, and 4 spots.

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Marty seems to be thinking about his 5 hole too much. Maybe the new pads are getting to his head. Look at those two shoot out goals, after being scored 5 hole in the 3rd like 2 or 3 times, he over compensated. If he kept his block up instead of down to cover the 5 he would have made those two saves in the shootout.

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I have ben watching the games but not commenting re: Brodeur.

 

Brodeur was very good tonight.  I can't fault any of the goals on him tonight.

 

Goal 1: Net mouth scramble on the pk, puck goes to RNH's stick for an easy tap in goal.

Goal 2: Perfect shot by Ferrence that looked like it hit a Devil's skate.

Goal 3: Perfect snipe by Perron right off a face-off.

Goal 4: Defensive breakdown and Hall with a sick move.

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