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SMantzas

The Pete Deboer Thread

450 posts in this topic

I want to preface this post by saying I love his system and don't want him fired, but his choice of personnel is downright awful

 

Mark Fayne, who is probably our 2nd best dman has been sat in favor of guys like Harrold, Volchenkov and Salvador. I wouldn't be surprised to see him bolt after this year.

 

Career journeyman Stephen Gionta is getting ice time over Jacob Josefson and Rusty Olesz, two players who produced in the AHL and in Olesz's case, in the NHL. Gionta was an average minor leaguer who gets 11 minutes a night including PK time.

 

I remember Florida fans saying Deboer wasn't the best at dealing with young players and I can see why. Josefson played extremely well in the preseason and was asked to play different roles. He outplayed Gionta handily, yet cant sniff the ice on a back end of 2 games in 2 nights. Larsson, who was pretty terrible against Pitt and NYI, played a solid game last night while #10 and #28 got abused. The kid gets benched for breathing the wrong way while vets stay in the lineup despite egregious mistakes.

 

Im not sure whether Lou, Stevens and Barr have any say but its clear Deboer needs to wake up, or else this season can get out of hand pretty quickly

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Nothing he does surprises me anymore. Last night was apparently "a learning experience". Good thing we have a team full of veterans. I'm sure they'll just suddenly get better. And now Larsson is out. Just fvcking trade the kid before you ruin him completely. Ugh.

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I want to preface this post by saying I love his system and don't want him fired, but his choice of personnel is downright awful

 

Mark Fayne, who is probably our 2nd best dman has been sat in favor of guys like Harrold, Volchenkov and Salvador. I wouldn't be surprised to see him bolt after this year.

 

Career journeyman Stephen Gionta is getting ice time over Jacob Josefson and Rusty Olesz, two players who produced in the AHL and in Olesz's case, in the NHL. Gionta was an average minor leaguer who gets 11 minutes a night including PK time.

 

I remember Florida fans saying Deboer wasn't the best at dealing with young players and I can see why. Josefson played extremely well in the preseason and was asked to play different roles. He outplayed Gionta handily, yet cant sniff the ice on a back end of 2 games in 2 nights. Larsson, who was pretty terrible against Pitt and NYI, played a solid game last night while #10 and #28 got abused. The kid gets benched for breathing the wrong way while vets stay in the lineup despite egregious mistakes.

 

Im not sure whether Lou, Stevens and Barr have any say but its clear Deboer needs to wake up, or else this season can get out of hand pretty quickly

If Fayne is our 2nd best dman, then the experts were right with their predictions!!!

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Nothing he does surprises me anymore. Last night was apparently "a learning experience". Good thing we have a team full of veterans. I'm sure they'll just suddenly get better. And now Larsson is out. Just fvcking trade the kid before you ruin him completely. Ugh.

 

Wait, what?  If Larsson is out and Harrold in...I..I don't know..

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We have to give him the 12 forward, 6 dman, 2 goalie roster since he's not capable of using the correct guys he has. Can't give him an option apparently

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Lou has a say. If Lou had a issue with PD's choices he'd say something and it seems Lou has faith in PD..Idk.

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I thought having depth would be a good thing. Guess I was wrong.

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I thought having depth would be a good thing. Guess I was wrong.

 

He's gone full retard so far. I didn't think last year was that bad since we didn't have much depth, but now he's playing Harrold like he's an all star and playing Salvador like he's Chris Pronger. Is he blind? 

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I know unlikely but imagine if PDB was replaced by Laviolette....

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Not all his fault. The Salvador debacle is on Lou. He loves this bum for some reason. Hangs the C around him. Deboer can't bench him

 

Brodeur is not on him. He shouldn't even be in the league anymore, but Lou signed him and Marty's massive ego looms over everything...so he's forced to play him.

 

Tallinder soured and was traded. Probably had something to do with Stevens who just isn't a teacher in the Larry mode. All I see of Stevens is the same intimidating lock jawed glare behind the bench. That works as a player, not as a coach. I wonder if he's a great communicator. He can't really "lead by example" anymore.

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I want to preface this post by saying I love his system and don't want him fired, but his choice of personnel is downright awful

 

Mark Fayne, who is probably our 2nd best dman has been sat in favor of guys like Harrold, Volchenkov and Salvador. I wouldn't be surprised to see him bolt after this year.

 

Career journeyman Stephen Gionta is getting ice time over Jacob Josefson and Rusty Olesz, two players who produced in the AHL and in Olesz's case, in the NHL. Gionta was an average minor leaguer who gets 11 minutes a night including PK time.

 

I remember Florida fans saying Deboer wasn't the best at dealing with young players and I can see why. Josefson played extremely well in the preseason and was asked to play different roles. He outplayed Gionta handily, yet cant sniff the ice on a back end of 2 games in 2 nights. Larsson, who was pretty terrible against Pitt and NYI, played a solid game last night while #10 and #28 got abused. The kid gets benched for breathing the wrong way while vets stay in the lineup despite egregious mistakes.

 

Im not sure whether Lou, Stevens and Barr have any say but its clear Deboer needs to wake up, or else this season can get out of hand pretty quickly

 

Pretty simple - DeBoer is a young coach that has "insecurities" about coaching older players.  As a result, he takes it out on those naturally younger than him.  Typical management issue.

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I know unlikely but imagine if PDB was replaced by Laviolette....

 

That would never happen...just from what kind of person Lou is, he wouldn't stand for Laviolette's gamesmanship/teaching diving.  You'd be more likely to get Guy Boucher mid-season, or Lemaire v4.0.

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You nailed it SMantzas. I completely agree. I don't think I ever felt so conflicted towards a coach since I love DeBoer's system and I want some rare stability behind the bench but his personnel decisions are really annoying me.

I think '7' brings up a great point re: Stevens vs. Robinson as coaches. Not every great player makes a great coach. It's incredible when you look at how much of a vital role Fayne had under Robinson and how non-existent he is under Stevens. I also wonder if Stevens doesn't view Larsson as being "tough enough." Stevens certainly seems to favorite the vets.

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Larsson sitting... I mean this is straight up bullsh!t. BULLsh!t. DeBoer just can't man up and bench anyone who DESERVES (read: Volch, Sal, Harrold, Gionta) benching. If you're above the age of 27, I guess you just get a free pass on this fvcking team. I can't take these personnel moves anymore, DeBoer is gonna make me have a coronary the way he's going.

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I mean, I understand that Volchenkov and Salvador are going to be in the lineup no matter what, and Volchenkov has been fine thus far. And as much as I want to see Larsson succeed, the fact of the matter is, if he wasn't drafted fourth overall, he wouldn't have sniffed the big leagues. He's been atrocious, and needs to take the diapers off, although I understand he needs to get in the game to do so.

The Gionta thing is the most puzzling. I understood the reasoning last year, and he can be a fourth liner on a few teams that don't see the use of a goon. But Josefson is a much better player, or at least Gionta is not good enough to deny Josefson a chance.

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Many valid points, but I think there's more to be said.  I love Marty, and have nothing but great appreciation and respect for what he brought to this club.  That said, Marty is finally looking old out there.  Last night during the shootout, he just wasn't Marty.  Marty doesn't appear to be able to steal goals anymore.  He just doesn't seem to be keeping up.  I hope I'm proven wrong, and he pitches a bunch of shutouts.  There's nothing I'd like more than to see Marty go out on top.  That said, I fear we are watching another athlete who hung around a year too long. 

 

My other thought:  Watching our team on the shootout is painful.  They don't seem to be challenging the goal tenders.  It was dreadful against the Isles. 

 

I don't know how everyone else feels, but this season, albeit just three games in, is starting to feel a lot like last season.  If changes need to be made, I hope we don't wait until we are too far out of it.  I want to be positive, and don't usually panic, but I'm just not feeling it this season.

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Coaches aren't paid to develop players, they're paid to win.  This leads to tricky situations like the ones above - it's tough to separate past results from possible future results, especially since coaches have a hundred other things to worry about.  Still, you don't get to play the Corsi card with Gionta, then say that Larsson belongs in the lineup - he's clearly the worst of the Devils' RHD in this field.  On the other hand, it leads a coach to play Gionta because he has results with him - he's not looking at Gionta's hockeydb and furrowing his brow and wondering if this guy can do the job - he's seen him 'do the job' for 60+ games.  It's going to take some doing, but again, Carter's out of the lineup tonight, I don't see why that makes Gionta untouchable - they're abandoning the CBGB line 3 games into the season, something nearly unthinkable at the beginning of last season.  If Gionta performs how I expect him to, he won't survive the healthy scratch axe for long.

 

As for Larsson, one game here and there isn't the end of the world.  Patrik Elias was healthy scratched in the playoffs in 1997-98 and he was 13 months older than Larsson at the time.  I expect Larsson play 65-70 games.  Right now, Harrold is outplaying him.

Edited by Triumph

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Why don't Devs fans pressure media & social media, ask the questions... twitter, FB, email to Deb, Kenny, Sherry, EJ, NHLLive, etc... If anything, be nice to get answers to the 'unknowns/whys'

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Why don't Devs fans pressure media & social media, ask the questions... twitter, FB, email to Deb, Kenny, Sherry, EJ, NHLLive, etc... If anything, be nice to get answers to the 'unknowns/whys'

 

cause we know what kind of answers we'll get.

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Coaches aren't paid to develop players, they're paid to win.  This leads to tricky situations like the ones above - it's tough to separate past results from possible future results, especially since coaches have a hundred other things to worry about.  

 

It's three games into the season, not Game 5 of a playoff series.  Besides, it's not as if Larsson was screwing up all over the place LAST night.  Yet he's the one that gets scapegoated when Volch has inane pinches every game and is slower than dirt, while Harrold goes all the way over to the left boards leaving a man open in front of the net last night.  Harrold is a fill-in that gets treated like a regular.

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I'd like to see PDB not change his line combinations every other shift. How does he expect chemistry to develop when there's no consistency. He's gotta have some patience.

 

As for Larsson I think he's too laid back for his own good, which can make it look like he's not trying. He definitely needs to be more aggressive on ice and develop an edge. Opposition players seem to pick on him more than any of our other D.

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Only sense I can make of this is Debo is trying to pull a mean streak out of Larsson. TG's tweets seem to show him pretty upset about it. Hopefully it all works out. 

 

Still, how can they be dressing a career minor leaguer for a 4th overall pick? 

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