Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
SMantzas

The Pete Deboer Thread

450 posts in this topic

LOu dont decide of the lineup... Lou acquire player with needs etc, but only deboer decide who he plays who he keeps etc...

 

The decision to play harrold and gionta belongs to deboer himself...

 

So bottom line is Lou gives the tool... you do what you want with it (same with the goalie)

 

Another coach could plays gélinas josefson merril waive gionta harrold etc and lou wouldnt mind....

 

Just look at tallinder... He was trade because we had to much D yes... but he was on pete black list

 

If you dont believe me, read pat burns biography it explain how lou works... he hire people and trust them till it doesnt work anymore. Burns make some decision that wasnt popular (Daneyko scratch) but lou tell him :if you think it the best for our team, do it...

 

I'm surprised he gives coaches that level of trust. I pictured him to be more of a control freak, even pulling some strings from the GM's desk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was surprised too... He controls everything in the organisation... but he trust people... he hire a coach to coach the team choose his lineup to have success...

 

the day he will have to tell the coach what to do , well he will fire him... So he trust deboer right now.. but if this team continue to struggle and he dont see changes, Lamoriello will move for sure

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I beleive Lou is not a micro manager.  Because it's ineffective for the most part.  Lou's pretty logical.  Trust trumps all hence we have guys like SGio who he trusts - this is more important than literal on ice production almost to the point of lunacy.  Sounds like I just contradicted the point?  Nope.  Lou trust DeBoer understands what he values.  DeBoer thus values not mere loyalty but predictability/trustworthy, reliable expected outcomes.  Thus you know what Sal will give you.  You know what Gio will give you.  Fayne - might go one way or the other - but you can rely you can't predict the result -- so scrap him then?  That's what lou's guidelines dictate.  It's up to Lou to change those guidelines.

 

See how it is?  Micro-messaging more than actual managing. If Lou loses track then he has to get his ass in there throw some jelly jars warning guys not to get cute with his directives/ OR try to second guess in times of peril.  Directive is ALWAYS stay the course.

 

It's down to Lou to re-direct DeBoer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How long before the new owners step in (if at all)? I know they trust Lou and admire everything he's done for this organization but how long before they start to lose faith in him? I hate to even bring it up because every time this team starts losing everyone calls for Lou's head, but at what point does it become a valid question, especially to the new owners? Surely some of this mess falls on Lou's shoulders (kids not playing, UFA's walking, drafting Matteau instead of forfeiting the pick, Kovy, etc.).

 

Side question, does anyone think the new owners are the ones responsible for getting rid of R&R pt 2?

Edited by Jerzey Devil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a whole thread directed to attempting the answer that "side question", lol.

 

I think Lou is definitely less safe now than he ever was (VBK was a Devils fan first...I think if he had continued to be the majority owner, then Lou probably would've had Sather-like job security for life).  That doesn't mean I think the new owners would be quick to fire him...I just don't think Lou is bulletproof with these guys. 

 

It's too early to call this mess, hard as it has been to watch.  I hate 0-3-3 as much as everyone else, but I can't talk about owners stepping in and trying to figure out who's responsible for a mess just yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How long before the new owners step in (if at all)? I know they trust Lou and admire everything he's done for this organization but how long before they start to lose faith in him? I hate to even bring it up because every time this team starts losing everyone calls for Lou's head, but at what point does it become a valid question, especially to the new owners? Surely some of this mess falls on Lou's shoulders (kids not playing, UFA's walking, drafting Matteau instead of forfeiting the pick, Kovy, etc.).

 

Side question, does anyone think the new owners are the ones responsible for getting rid of R&R pt 2?

 

The new owners raved about Lou.  And what mess?  The team is 0-3-3 while breaking even in shots for/against at ES.  Things will turn around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new owners raved about Lou.  And what mess?  The team is 0-3-3 while breaking even in shots for/against at ES.  Things will turn around.

 

we all said that based on "stats" that they'd turn it around last year and we said the same thing about the Leafs who would crash and burn... at the end of the day its who was in the playoffs that counts.

 

i dont look back at standings from 1987 and thinking... well that team wasnt in the playoffs that year but they had a positive shots for/against at ES.! moral victory

Edited by SterioDesign

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not a mess at all.  In fact - it's probably more commercially viable now since my taste is generally off-market by miles.

 

New oweners won't hold Lou accountable in the near future anyhow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we all said that based on "stats" that they'd turn it around last year and we said the same thing about the Leafs who would crash and burn... at the end of the day its who was in the playoffs that counts.

 

i dont look back at standings from 1987 and thinking... well that team wasnt in the playoffs that year but they had a positive shots for/against at ES.! moral victory

 

Tri's a slave to that stuff, but the team will improve.  The aggregate save% will go up in the Devils' end...it's at .893 right now.  Should be in the .910s somewhere by season's end.  How high in the .910s depends on how many starts Schneider gets.

 

As long as they get that kind of goaltending, I think the Devils wind up somewhere somewhere between 50%-60% in season point percentage (82-98 points), depending on if they can score enough.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tri's a slave to that stuff, but the team will improve.  The aggregate save% will go up in the Devils' end...it's at .893 right now.  Should be in the .910s somewhere by season's end.  How high in the .910s depends on how many starts Schneider gets.

 

As long as they get that kind of goaltending, I think the Devils wind up somewhere somewhere between 50%-60% in season point percentage (82-98 points), depending on if they can score enough.   

 

what we have to understand here is that those numbers are mostly bullsh!t when they are not put in situations. Hockey games can go in any directions, at the end of the day it sucks but its not always the best team who win and all that matters is the results. We can try to sugarcoat it with stats but its not helping anything

 

Lets say we play a team, we outshot them 55-11. We can't fvcking create "good chances" or bury our chances and the games ends 1-1 after OT and we go to SO and none of our shooters score and we lose.

 

We'd have one hell of a good game corsi-wise but we'd still lose.

 

Or our guys scores 6 goals in a low shooting game where we get really opportunist but our goalies are sh!t and we lose 6-7 in OT. What does that say?

 

of course games like that can't happen often but still, we saw those specific games so often last season and its showing this year too.

Edited by SterioDesign

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what we have to understand here is that those numbers are mostly bullsh!t when they are not put in situations. Hockey games can go in any directions, at the end of the day it sucks but its not always the best team who win and all that matters is the results. We can try to sugarcoat it with stats but its not helping anything

 

Lets say we play a team, we outshot them 55-11. We can't fvcking create "good chances" or bury our chances and the games ends 1-1 after OT and we go to SO and none of our shooters score and we lose.

 

We'd have one hell of a good game corsi-wise but we'd still lose.

 

Or our guys scores 6 goals in a low shooting game where we get really opportunist but our goalies are sh!t and we lose 6-7 in OT. What does that say?

 

of course games like that can't happen often but still, we saw those specific games so often last season and its showing this year too.

But you see you've already built into your post, Tri's answer to it. Games like that can't happen often means they're not "sustainable." Therefore over time you'll see less of those games than the average game which will be based more upon the stats Tri favors. Whether or not this is actually true I suppose depends on how big of a range of games you take and just how low you figure the odds of one of those anomalous games to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But you see you've already built into your post, Tri's answer to it. Games like that can't happen often means they're not "sustainable." Therefore over time you'll see less of those games than the average game which will be based more upon the stats Tri favors. Whether or not this is actually true I suppose depends on how big of a range of games you take and just how low you figure the odds of one of those anomalous games to be.

 

yeah but if a bad stretch last too long you dig yourself a hole you can't come out off (See 2010) you have to be "awesome" for a long stretch to overcome it. And we're only average in our best i'd assume.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New owners will get rid of Lou if they wish. I wouldn't put any stock into what they said at the equivalent of a pep rally. Even despite the threat of a firing how many yrs does Lou honestly have left in a perfect world. Not many.

The next GM is coming from outside the organization without a doubt whether Lou likes it or not. The owners are just playing the time card and will move Lou out gracefully on their terms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New owners will get rid of Lou if they wish. I wouldn't put any stock into what they said at the equivalent of a pep rally. Even despite the threat of a firing how many yrs does Lou honestly have left in a perfect world. Not many.

The next GM is coming from outside the organization without a doubt whether Lou likes it or not. The owners are just playing the time card and will move Lou out gracefully on their terms.

 

That seems incredibly unlikely - that Lou, having had 26 years on the job, won't get to both retire on his own terms and/or pick his successor (provided nothing goes remarkably wrong between then and now) and again you are projecting your dislike of Lamoriello on to the new owners.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what we have to understand here is that those numbers are mostly bullsh!t when they are not put in situations. Hockey games can go in any directions, at the end of the day it sucks but its not always the best team who win and all that matters is the results. We can try to sugarcoat it with stats but its not helping anything

 

Lets say we play a team, we outshot them 55-11. We can't fvcking create "good chances" or bury our chances and the games ends 1-1 after OT and we go to SO and none of our shooters score and we lose.

 

We'd have one hell of a good game corsi-wise but we'd still lose.

 

Or our guys scores 6 goals in a low shooting game where we get really opportunist but our goalies are sh!t and we lose 6-7 in OT. What does that say?

 

of course games like that can't happen often but still, we saw those specific games so often last season and its showing this year too.

 

No mention of Corsis and Fenwicks in my post.

 

I'm also not dividing up numbers here (shots at 5-on-5, shots at 5-on-4, etc).  I'm keeping it pretty simple.  Last year, as we all know, the Devils couldn't put pucks in the opponent's net and couldn't stop them from going into their own.  So the nice big shot advantage, in terms of simple shots-for/shot-against, was pretty much negated.

 

With Schneider in the fold, and last year's worst puck-stopper (Hedberg) out of the mix, the save% WILL get better, and should by a significant margin.  So one of the main bugaboos from last season is going to be better. 

 

As far as putting the puck in the other guy's net...different story.  In this regard they probably don't figure to be that much better than last year's team.  What we're all praying for is that Zajac, Henrique, and Clowe can start combining for more than one goal every 6 games between them.  Zajac has 12 SOG, Henrique has 9, for what that's worth...at least they're GETTING shots.  Clowe's 4 through 6 games is a lot more alarming...his career rate is over 2 SOG per game.  And he looks terrible right now. 

 

Devils also have to find a way to start getting more SOG per game overall...they haven't cracked 30 yet.  Only 23.25 SPG in their last four.  Small sample, but needs to change.  

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah but if a bad stretch last too long you dig yourself a hole you can't come out off (See 2010) you have to be "awesome" for a long stretch to overcome it. And we're only average in our best i'd assume.

 

You can't assume that.  The Devils are going to win 3 games in a row at some point during the season.  They may even win 5 in a row, if they're good.  These things happen, even to bad teams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that doesnt mean anything anymore bro im sorry... everyone is all caught up in that memory still with deboer. ALOT has changed since then its not even close to the same team since then weve lost two superstar players in kovy and parise clarkson took a hike too..

Exactly, how is it the coaches fault the the team loast 2 stars in 2 years??  how do you expet any coach to succeed!  Plus the fact the LL, keeps Vol, Harrold & Zid who are all playing poorly??  How is that PDB fault?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

How can we activate Tedenby? Doesn't that put us over roster max?

 

Never mind, TG already said it would put us over and we'd need to open a spot for him.

Edited by NewarkDevil5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Chico is retiring, Marty should retire and Pete and staff should be fired. We could have one big party.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That seems incredibly unlikely - that Lou, having had 26 years on the job, won't get to both retire on his own terms and/or pick his successor (provided nothing goes remarkably wrong between then and now) and again you are projecting your dislike of Lamoriello on to the new owners.

The new ownership owes Lou nothing and they have shown no inclination to allow middle management make their decisions for them in terms of succession in any of their interests that they hold.

Actions and not words tell the story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When is Deboer's contract up?

After 2 more consecutive losses...

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The new ownership owes Lou nothing and they have shown no inclination to allow middle management make their decisions for them in terms of succession in any of their interests that they hold.

 

The new owners don't seem to know very much about hockey.  They do see a guy who has kept his job in a business where it's really hard to keep your job for more than 5-6 years who's done it for 26 years now.  They could've easily sounded more weaselly regarding Lou's future, but instead were saying things like 'In Lou We Trust'

 

 

Actions and not words tell the story.

 

The words tell the story that the Devils got a bit out of sync with their system.  The issues with the team we saw on Sunday can't be fixed by lineup changes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0