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caron14

isles aquire vanek. large deal

195 posts in this topic

The absolute LAST thing I want, and I think this team needs, is another 30+ year old forward on a long contract.

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Just on the idea of acquiring Vanek, my initial response is "that would be awesome!" But then as I sit back and think about it, I get this logical (cynical?) voice in my head that says, "Okay c'mon you know this is not the answer." Trading for Vanek would be a morale/excitement boost but it's a step towards stagnancy. We need to find the fundamental issues that have plagued this team for the least year and for the last decade as a whole (i.e. how to recover post-Stevens-Nieds-Rafalski).

 

I am done rooting for the band-aid; we do't need that "missing piece," we need to put the pieces we have together. Yes, we made an incredible run to the Cup final two seasons ago, but in large part we have lost our meanness, failed to intimidate, failed to score goals and failed to mesh as a team.

 

I am sick of doing this:  :horse: , this:  :doh1:  and this:  :dizzy: over the past decade. We don't need deep statistical analysis here, we don't need the pangs of denial and we certainly don't need that ONE superstar scorer to make all our dreams come true; it just ain't it kids.

 

We need one GIANT team PAUSE. The players, the fans...we all need to just sit and take a breather. We need to eliminate all the garbage and complex theories created over the decade. We need simplicity again - a blank slate. I don't care if we have to lose games for awhile: stop changing things up. Stop taking the kids out of the lineup - they ain't going to be stars overnight - let them play and learn.

 

And absolutely no more big contracts for veteran defensemen and wingers who are on the 40 side of 30 - especially not to reward them for being a sweet individual. Jagr, like Brendan Shanahan is a gimmick. When the Devils sign Jaromir Jagr that should tell everyone on this board that we are a team with an illness.

 

No more win the Cup this year or die; it ain't going to happen that way and will only waste more time. Teach the kids to play, teach the kids to be Devils. I really don't want to wait until 2016, 17, 18 to be champions again but even more I definitely don't want to be going like this:  :horse:  still in 2018.

I don't miss "boring" Devils hockey - that's never coming back. I do however, miss having a confident, consistent and passionate Devils team.  :burn:

 

What we have know is making me so dizzy. PUCK. STICKS. SKATES: that's what should be on the team's to do list and that EVERYTHING that should be on the list; we can add tasks as we go. 

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Just on the idea of acquiring Vanek, my initial response is "that would be awesome!" But then as I sit back and think about it, I get this logical (cynical?) voice in my head that says, "Okay c'mon you know this is not the answer." Trading for Vanek would be a morale/excitement boost but it's a step towards stagnancy. We need to find the fundamental issues that have plagued this team for the least year and for the last decade as a whole (i.e. how to recover post-Stevens-Nieds-Rafalski).

 

I am done rooting for the band-aid; we do't need that "missing piece," we need to put the pieces we have together. Yes, we made an incredible run to the Cup final two seasons ago, but in large part we have lost our meanness, failed to intimidate, failed to score goals and failed to mesh as a team.

 

I am sick of doing this:  :horse: , this:  :doh1:  and this:  :dizzy: over the past decade. We don't need deep statistical analysis here, we don't need the pangs of denial and we certainly don't need that ONE superstar scorer to make all our dreams come true; it just ain't it kids.

 

We need one GIANT team PAUSE. The players, the fans...we all need to just sit and take a breather. We need to eliminate all the garbage and complex theories created over the decade. We need simplicity again - a blank slate. I don't care if we have to lose games for awhile: stop changing things up. Stop taking the kids out of the lineup - they ain't going to be stars overnight - let them play and learn.

 

And absolutely no more big contracts for veteran defensemen and wingers who are on the 40 side of 30 - especially not to reward them for being a sweet individual. Jagr, like Brendan Shanahan is a gimmick. When the Devils sign Jaromir Jagr that should tell everyone on this board that we are a team with an illness.

 

No more win the Cup this year or die; it ain't going to happen that way and will only waste more time. Teach the kids to play, teach the kids to be Devils. I really don't want to wait until 2016, 17, 18 to be champions again but even more I definitely don't want to be going like this:  :horse:  still in 2018.

I don't miss "boring" Devils hockey - that's never coming back. I do however, miss having a confident, consistent and passionate Devils team.  :burn:

 

What we have know is making me so dizzy. PUCK. STICKS. SKATES: that's what should be on the team's to do list and that EVERYTHING that should be on the list; we can add tasks as we go. 

 

Y'know, that's the first thing to make sense on this board in a while (and that includes my own senseless ramblings). I agree wholeheartedly with this.

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To me the only way it makes sense is if Buffalo is willing to eat a bad contract for us, which would represent the "value" in it for us.  Ie, we send something like Henrique (whom they may have legit interest in) + Volchenkov (bad contract) for the Vanek rental.  It essentially offers them a real player who is under contract for a while who has potential, but they also free us from several more years of Volchenkov.  Whether it's "worth" it depends on how much better we'd be without those guys.  It probably means Josefson gets a nightly spot, and it means Fayne gets a nightly spot.  And *hopefully* it means a bottom feeder forward (like Gionta) is pressed out.

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Neb00rs, understand the simplicity angle, but Kovy leaving kind of forced Lou's hand, in trying to put a team on the ice that could compete for a playoff berth.  That led to the Jagr and Ryder-type signings.   

 

You know how this works...you're getting to the potential end of an extended run of success, and you're trying to stay up there a little longer.  When the players you need to sustain it aren't coming up through your system, you go out and sign guys you hope will work out and address specific weaknesses (lose Clarkson, sign Clowe).  Unfortunately, as we've seen with some of those signings, you're picking and choosing players who grew up with different coaches and systems, and now you're trying to mold those players into doing things YOUR way.  I'm not saying that it CAN'T be done, but it's not easy, and probably not Lou's favorite way to build a team. 

 

Yeah, there are times I almost wish Lou could really blank-slate it, just erase the whole chalkboard and start over, but sometimes when you blow it all up, you never stop rebuilding either. 

 

There's no obvious right answer, and I do believe that this team is NOT going to be disaster this season, but hopefully the Devils start getting players from within again, sooner rather than later.      

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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Just on the idea of acquiring Vanek, my initial response is "that would be awesome!" But then as I sit back and think about it, I get this logical (cynical?) voice in my head that says, "Okay c'mon you know this is not the answer." Trading for Vanek would be a morale/excitement boost but it's a step towards stagnancy. We need to find the fundamental issues that have plagued this team for the least year and for the last decade as a whole (i.e. how to recover post-Stevens-Nieds-Rafalski).

 

I am done rooting for the band-aid; we do't need that "missing piece," we need to put the pieces we have together. Yes, we made an incredible run to the Cup final two seasons ago, but in large part we have lost our meanness, failed to intimidate, failed to score goals and failed to mesh as a team.

 

I am sick of doing this:  :horse: , this:  :doh1:  and this:  :dizzy: over the past decade. We don't need deep statistical analysis here, we don't need the pangs of denial and we certainly don't need that ONE superstar scorer to make all our dreams come true; it just ain't it kids.

 

We need one GIANT team PAUSE. The players, the fans...we all need to just sit and take a breather. We need to eliminate all the garbage and complex theories created over the decade. We need simplicity again - a blank slate. I don't care if we have to lose games for awhile: stop changing things up. Stop taking the kids out of the lineup - they ain't going to be stars overnight - let them play and learn.

 

And absolutely no more big contracts for veteran defensemen and wingers who are on the 40 side of 30 - especially not to reward them for being a sweet individual. Jagr, like Brendan Shanahan is a gimmick. When the Devils sign Jaromir Jagr that should tell everyone on this board that we are a team with an illness.

 

No more win the Cup this year or die; it ain't going to happen that way and will only waste more time. Teach the kids to play, teach the kids to be Devils. I really don't want to wait until 2016, 17, 18 to be champions again but even more I definitely don't want to be going like this:  :horse:  still in 2018.

I don't miss "boring" Devils hockey - that's never coming back. I do however, miss having a confident, consistent and passionate Devils team.  :burn:

 

What we have know is making me so dizzy. PUCK. STICKS. SKATES: that's what should be on the team's to do list and that EVERYTHING that should be on the list; we can add tasks as we go. 

:hail:   It probably looks too much like one of my posts for anyone to actually comprehend what you wrote. :giggle:

 

 

 

 

 

werdsmiley.gif

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To me the only way it makes sense is if Buffalo is willing to eat a bad contract for us, which would represent the "value" in it for us.  Ie, we send something like Henrique (whom they may have legit interest in) + Volchenkov (bad contract) for the Vanek rental.  It essentially offers them a real player who is under contract for a while who has potential, but they also free us from several more years of Volchenkov.  Whether it's "worth" it depends on how much better we'd be without those guys.  It probably means Josefson gets a nightly spot, and it means Fayne gets a nightly spot.  And *hopefully* it means a bottom feeder forward (like Gionta) is pressed out.

 

Why not do this but also include a conditional pick if Vanek doesn't resign? I'm pretty sure that's allowed in the NHL, right?

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Why not do this but also include a conditional pick if Vanek doesn't resign? I'm pretty sure that's allowed in the NHL, right?

 

 

I'm pretty sure this is allowed because the Rags would of had to give up another second rounder for Clowe if he would of re-signed with them this past offseason.

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Hopefully the Rangers will find a way to clear cap space and trade for him. Not us, I envision an expensive/lengthy contract. no thx!

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The Devils should be in the market to start convincing any player over 30 to waive their no trade clause.  Start getting younger and acquiring picks.

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:hail:   It probably looks too much like one of my posts for anyone to actually comprehend what you wrote. :giggle:

 

 

 

 

 

werdsmiley.gif

 

Not going to lie, I thought that I was reading one of your posts at first.  And not that that's a bad thing, but it definitely did look like it at first. 

 

But right on neb00rs, except that sort of thing pretty much requires a rebuild.  There's not a whole lot of talent in the pipeline..and without a first this year, we're talking about seeing results in at least 4-5 years, I'd imagine.  And by results, I mean .500 seasons (if we ditch as many vets as we can, and let the kids play).  I mean, it isn't pretty - look at Edmonton.  I don't know if our fanbase could survive a significant rebuild.

Edited by Devilsfan118

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Vanek is a hell of a player, he would help our offence big time, but he would not fix our problem right now.... (our D look Awful slow,slower, everything but poised, )

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Not going to lie, I thought that I was reading one of your posts at first.  And not that that's a bad thing, but it definitely did look like it at first. 

 

But right on neb00rs, except that sort of thing pretty much requires a rebuild.  There's not a whole lot of talent in the pipeline..and without a first this year, we're talking about seeing results in at least 4-5 years, I'd imagine.  And by results, I mean .500 seasons (if we ditch as many vets as we can, and let the kids play).  I mean, it isn't pretty - look at Edmonton.  I don't know if our fanbase could survive a significant rebuild.

 

The problem with those who want a rebuild often assume that it's automatically going to payoff with success and clear steps forward after 2-3 years of pure suckage.  No guarantees.  And during the rebuild, it can get really ugly.  Fans are willing to be patient to an extent, but usually after a couple of seasons of brutal play, they lose patience pretty quickly.

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Just saw a Rangers fan on Facebook suggest the Rangers do a Girardi-for-Vanek trade, "straight up" hahaha... And no one called him out for being unrealistic. Thought it was one of the most delusional idiotic things I've read in recent weeks and figured I'd share.

Edited by DJ Eco

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The problem with those who want a rebuild often assume that it's automatically going to payoff with success and clear steps forward after 2-3 years of pure suckage.  No guarantees.  And during the rebuild, it can get really ugly.  Fans are willing to be patient to an extent, but usually after a couple of seasons of brutal play, they lose patience pretty quickly.

 

Rebuilds don't start with a bunch of promising young players.  They start with a bunch of mediocre veterans and never wases.  Then you add one promising young player to that mix, repeat.  Rebuilds are horrendous and good teams shouldn't need to do them.

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The problem with those who want a rebuild often assume that it's automatically going to payoff with success and clear steps forward after 2-3 years of pure suckage.  No guarantees.  And during the rebuild, it can get really ugly.  Fans are willing to be patient to an extent, but usually after a couple of seasons of brutal play, they lose patience pretty quickly.

 

Devils cannot afford a rebuild period, it would be catastrophic.

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Rebuilds don't start with a bunch of promising young players.  They start with a bunch of mediocre veterans and never wases.  Then you add one promising young player to that mix, repeat.  Rebuilds are horrendous and good teams shouldn't need to do them.

 

Yeah, usually starts with "character" guys who play hard and try hard, and can set a good example for the kids through simple work ethic, this is what it means to be a pro, etc., but really aren't very good on the ice and are pretty tough to watch.  And yeah, then hopefully you add a couple of pieces through your system and discard of couple of the "gave-it-their-alls" each year, get a little bit better, rinse, lather, repeat.  Takes years and even then, it only takes a couple of high draft picks or young guys not panning out to either delay or derail the process altogether.  Like I said, it's far from a sure thing, unless you luck your way into players like the ones that fell into Pittsburgh's lap. 

 

As long as the Devils can get some young talent that can stick with the big team coming through the system soon, they should be OK. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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Vanek, at this moment in time, isn't a good fit here.  I like him and his scoring prowess, but the Devils need to shed some of the power-forward type players (ala Ryder / Clowe) and get some speed.

 

The Devils are simply a team that have a bunch of "spare parts" that perhaps would be successful on other teams as parter of the larger whole, but on this team aren't exactly clicking on all cylinders.

 

I would like to see two young prospect defensemen (ala Gelinas and Merril) and Boucher / Teddy / YaYo play with more consistency.

 

If we're gonna throw away the season before game 10, might as well get the younger lads in games so that they can get some work in.  No need to have a group of overpaid, undermotivated, underachievers on the ice IMO.

 

Lol, why do we need to get rid of Ryder?

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getting Vanek itself i have no problem with it cause he's a natural scorer and you never have enough of those, especially since he's awesome in SO just there it could be a huge difference.

 

My worry is that he'd be gone in June and that we would have lost yet again some prospects/players for a rental and we're obviously not contenders this year unless something unreal happen

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Guys, newsflash

 

We are not getting Vanek

how did this thread even start.. i mean i think most of us ended up thinking we werent going to get burnner either but uhh

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Thanks to those who replied to my post - please understand it's more of an honest emotional outburst than an analysis - it's written as a fan and not a pundit. I give up the punditry - I for one, am ready to admit that I don't have the answers. I just want to get rid of all the gunk and crap; something simple - and no, I DO NOT know how to get there.

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