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caron14

Carter Gionta Bernier line

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I saw a lot of people unhappy with them in the lineup (especially gionta)

 

The fact is that they are a good fourth line. They bring energy and does their work and we dont win or lose because of them they are playing on the fourt line!!!!!!

 

I want to see our kids in but there is no way i want to see josefson teddy or boucher on fourth line duties for their developpement. I really believe they are non factor. 

 

Our kid need opportunities (one might have a chance with olesz on the waivers) But to be honest they need to step up their game and make the most of their opportunities. I love josefson as a player, but he need to take his offensive upside at another devils. (even if his all around game is good he need to be on the scoresheet more often to be a top 9 forward in our organisation) 

 

So i dont blame the 4th line for stopping our kid developpement.

 

That being said what your thought on our 4 line and on our kids?

Edited by caron14

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Combined for a -23.  

 

It's a 4th line and all, but that's awful.

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Combined for a -23.  

 

It's a 4th line and all, but that's awful.

 

It's -23 for a reason and that's because it asked to do way too much. My biggest fault with Deboer is his usage of the 4th line and the players. They have been seen against top lines from time to to time and continue to get burned. Plus Gionta is used on the PK, and he is a trainwreck there as well. 

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It's -23 for a reason and that's because it asked to do way too much. My biggest fault with Deboer is his usage of the 4th line and the players. They have been seen against top lines from time to to time and continue to get burned. Plus Gionta is used on the PK, and he is a trainwreck there as well.

exactly. They are good if they are a 4th line, that's it. 11 minutes each a game and maybe a few pk situations for gionta or carter (since we're short handed there without zajac and Elias)

When they are asked to do more it means we are not a good team.

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exactly. They are good if they are a 4th line, that's it. 11 minutes each a game and maybe a few pk situations for gionta or carter (since we're short handed there without zajac and Elias)

When they are asked to do more it means we are not a good team.

yeah 100% right

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Carter is having a bad year so far. bernier has been decent. Gionta has been playing good hockey. Sorry haters. He does the job that is asked of him. Forechecks, creates powerplay opportunities, plays hard.

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Gionta is still abysmal. Look at his stats.

 

http://www.extraskater.com/team/new-jersey-devils/2013

 

In all situations he has the worst "CF% relative" and "CF%" of all our forwards, by a nice margin. Maybe he's being used too much in the wrong situations. But he is bad. He does run around and hit people though. I like that. 

Edited by mrthemike

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Gionta is still abysmal. Look at his stats.

 

http://www.extraskater.com/team/new-jersey-devils/2013

 

In all situations he has the worst "CF% relative" and "CF%" of all our forwards, by a nice margin. Maybe he's being used too much in the wrong situations. But he is bad. He does run around and hit people though. I like that. 

My points his... Do you put josefson on the fourth line instead of him???

 

I think he need to play top 9... if not dont put him in the lineup...

 

And like couple of you said... they need  to see less ice time

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josefson is an upgrade over gionta on the 4th line for sure. if for no other reason that he's taller and longer and has better defensive positioning.

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I have a bigger problem with lack of production in the top 9 but for the sake of discussion a look at the 4th line's possession numbers:

 

Going strictly by 5v5 numbers for forwards, Bernier's CF% Relative is -2.5%, Carter's is -7.2%, and Gionta's is -9.4%. The Devils are good possession team and Bernier has a 51.6% CF%, Carter a 49.7%, and Gionta a team low 45.9%. Bernier definitely has benefited from some shifts on other lines with his 47.9% O/DSt%, while Gionta's is 39.7%, and Carter's a team low 29.4%. Carter has had the least amount of offensive zone starts (15.6%) next lowest is Gionta (21.9%) and Carter has the most defensive zone starts (37.5%) next lowest is Zajac (34.7%). Going by ExtraSkater, their isn't a huge difference in Quality of Competition faced amongst Devils forwards but I think DeBoer has shown he is comfortable rolling his 4th line out there in various situations.

At 5v5, when Gionta is on the ice with Bernier they have a CF% of 46.4%. Gionta apart from Bernier is at 37.5%. Bernier apart from Gionta is at 61.8%. When Gionta is on the ice with Carter they have a CF% of 47.4%. Gionta apart from Carter is 39.6%. Carter apart from Gionta is at 58.8%. That's a similar trend to last year when both Carter and Bernier did more apart from Gionta.

 

Josefson would be better on the 4th line than Gionta as sundstrom mentioned but like I said before, I'm much more concerned about some of the players in the top 9.

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Only dude that hits on our team is little gio.

He has energy, but that's all he has. He's AWFUL on the PK and it makes me cringe to see him play against top lines.

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Gionta skates hard and hits guys, and that's enough to endear him to a large portion of our fanbase (and the coach, apparently).

 

He's undeniably the worst player on our team (and maybe currently in the NHL?  :lol:) and he deserves 4th line minutes against weak competition.  No PK, NO 1st line coverage.

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Gionta>Tendenby. can someone explain how they think he is bad on the PK?

 

He has 0 range. Many times when he is out there PPss set up and move the puck around his area, because he has no range with his stick, takes up no space, and doesn't have the quickness to make up for this physical handicap. I notice teams actively targeting his area on the PP, because they are comfortable with his inability to pressure their lanes.

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He has 0 range. Many times when he is out there PPss set up and move the puck around his area, because he has no range with his stick, takes up no space, and doesn't have the quickness to make up for this physical handicap. I notice teams actively targeting his area on the PP, because they are comfortable with his inability to pressure their lanes.

 

And then he tries to adjust, loses his position and voila...

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Being tiny is no excuse for being iso'd, his brother was a very good PK'er and it's not like he's much bigger.    The guy just sucks.

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I have a bigger problem with lack of production in the top 9 but for the sake of discussion a look at the 4th line's possession numbers:

 

Going strictly by 5v5 numbers for forwards, Bernier's CF% Relative is -2.5%, Carter's is -7.2%, and Gionta's is -9.4%. The Devils are good possession team and Bernier has a 51.6% CF%, Carter a 49.7%, and Gionta a team low 45.9%. Bernier definitely has benefited from some shifts on other lines with his 47.9% O/DSt%, while Gionta's is 39.7%, and Carter's a team low 29.4%. Carter has had the least amount of offensive zone starts (15.6%) next lowest is Gionta (21.9%) and Carter has the most defensive zone starts (37.5%) next lowest is Zajac (34.7%). Going by ExtraSkater, their isn't a huge difference in Quality of Competition faced amongst Devils forwards but I think DeBoer has shown he is comfortable rolling his 4th line out there in various situations.

At 5v5, when Gionta is on the ice with Bernier they have a CF% of 46.4%. Gionta apart from Bernier is at 37.5%. Bernier apart from Gionta is at 61.8%. When Gionta is on the ice with Carter they have a CF% of 47.4%. Gionta apart from Carter is 39.6%. Carter apart from Gionta is at 58.8%. That's a similar trend to last year when both Carter and Bernier did more apart from Gionta.

 

Josefson would be better on the 4th line than Gionta as sundstrom mentioned but like I said before, I'm much more concerned about some of the players in the top 9.

Thanks for putting this together.  We all know there isn't gonna be a magical fix for the top 6, so I say fix what you can, by putting more active D in the mix(moving that way already) and tinkering your bottom 6 to chip in offensively. I also believe that starts with Gio getting the boot.  I still think they need to find Olesz a spot in the bottom 6, maybe for Carter at this point.  At the BBQ in September he looked like he put on some weight, good upper body muscle, but sometimes that don't work out for players.  I also think he changed his stick, but he may have done that since he isn't getting any goals. 

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He has 0 range. Many times when he is out there PPss set up and move the puck around his area, because he has no range with his stick, takes up no space, and doesn't have the quickness to make up for this physical handicap. I notice teams actively targeting his area on the PP, because they are comfortable with his inability to pressure their lanes.

 

Gio needs Go Go Gadget arms if he is gonna play the kill.  I watched the Wild PP goal the other night and I think there were 3 times when his limited reach eliminated any chance of clearing the puck or breaking up a pass.

 

I am glad to see others get how teams just exploit these type of things.

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Gio needs Go Go Gadget arms if he is gonna play the kill.  I watched the Wild PP goal the other night and I think there were 3 times when his limited reach eliminated any chance of clearing the puck or breaking up a pass.

 

I am glad to see others get how teams just exploit these type of things.

 

I'd really like to see Deboer start training Brunner at PK-ing. Once he'd break up a pass his speed would make him impossible to catch for shorthanded tries.

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I'd really like to see Deboer start training Brunner at PK-ing. Once he'd break up a pass his speed would make him impossible to catch for shorthanded tries.

Big N-O on that one. Brunner can't handle playing d 5 on 5, I don't want to see him on the PK. They'd have to work hard on that for a while before I felt comfortable.

Zajac, Elias, JJ, Zubrus, Bernier, Carter can all play just fine on the PK. That's 3 sets of forwards the team can utilize, no need to use Brunner and I really don't understand the need to use Gio on the PK.

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Big N-O on that one. Brunner can't handle playing d 5 on 5, I don't want to see him on the PK. They'd have to work hard on that for a while before I felt comfortable.

Zajac, Elias, JJ, Zubrus, Bernier, Carter can all play just fine on the PK. That's 3 sets of forwards the team can utilize, no need to use Brunner and I really don't understand the need to use Gio on the PK.

 

I've seen guys who had issues playing defensively 5-on-5 start getting penalty kill time and not only do they wind up doing well on PK, they start improving defensively at full strength. Case in points are Ilya Kovalchuk and Alexander Mogilny but there are several others that fit that description.

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