Sneax Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Sneax, I agree with everything you've said in the past two pages. I really don't see any other way of looking at it. Don't get why anyone thinks people personally hate marty. No one hates him, but his play is not good enough right now and it's not like hes 26 and if we keep throwing him at the wall eventually he'll stick. He's old and his career is over, that's what happens in sports. You get old and then its over. All marty (really pete) is doing right now is fvcking with this teams future on a nightly basis. No one hates marty, they just want to see the best team on the ice that we can put out there, and that team has Corey in net not Marty. It has nothing to do with respect, current performance is what matters in sports, not history. Edited January 8, 2014 by Sneax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefiestygoat Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 The other problem I have with that stat lovers out there is that save percentage does not take into consideration the QUALITY of shots. If a goalie makes 39 saves and lets in one goal, that is an amazing save %. The saves could have all been floaters from center ice. My point is, Marty seems to make the BIG saves more often. Again, I am not saying Marty is playing incredible hockey, he is not. However that late save last night stole the Devils a point. If Cory was in net that one was hitting the twine, and we do not get a point for last night's "effort", or lack thereof. Well those stat lovers out there are studying quality of shot data. It's just not widely available yet. Check out the Shot Quality Project from Chris Boyle at Sportsnet. Intro and Part 1. He's charted over 33,000 shots on goal in all situations and broken them down with heat maps and graphs to show shot quality and goaltender performance. He also further broke it down between types of shots (clean shots, transition, rebounds, deflections) so the stat lovers out there certainly aren't ignoring shot quality. Quite the opposite. As he mentions save percentage by itself doesn't tell the whole story which is why the stat lovers have moved onto even strength save percentage as one tool to combat that. There's also been work done on SV%+ to provide accurate comparisons to a goaltenders peers as with GA%- as I mentioned earlier. While on the topic of shot quality, here is an awesome site where you can see shots/goals for a team or a skater or shots/goals against a team or goaltender plotted on the rink. Really fun to mess around with. Last night if Brodeur stops the 2nd Flyers goal as he should've imo given his position then his late save wouldn't be a big deal. It can go both ways. In general, Schneider is the better goaltender. Better goaltenders will make more saves, hence "bigger" saves more often than bad goaltenders. I'm not blaming last night on Brodeur at all. The offense is by far the biggest problem with the team. It's just that I don't understand why some people see Brodeur as equal to or better than Schneider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muevelos Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 No. Not like the five just listed and Toews That makes Travis Zajac a superstar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 No. Not like the five just listed and Toews Then Bergeron isn't a superstar either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 No, that's insane, again. If Schneider was a .930 goalie and starting 80% of the games, the Devils would have 6-7 more points. And that's only halfway through the season. But he doesn't have a .930 save percentage, and there is no way to know whether he would have had that by virtue of getting more starts. In any event, a .930 save percentage and the very low GAA that would result from that basically makes Schneider a Vezina finalist, if not a shoe-in for the award. And that still puts us into third place in the division by 3-4 points over Washington after having played two more games. In other words, having the best goalie in the world would not advance the ball all that much over what the team actually is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 It's just that I don't understand why some people see Brodeur as equal to or better than Schneider. I don't know who's really saying that other than broadcasters (unless I missed some posts here to that effect). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muevelos Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) He's above Travis. He's a top five defensive forward. I love Travis. He's not a top he's top ten. Then Bergeron isn't a superstar either. Edited January 8, 2014 by CarterforPresident Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ELIAS6 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 He's above Travis. He's a top five defensive forward. I love Travis. He's not a top he's top ten. i like travis also i just wish he would put up some more points from time to time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 He's above Travis. He's a top five defensive forward. I love Travis. He's not a top he's top ten. I agree he's better than Travis. My point being that Boston won the cup with no superstars, and had a team with 50-60 point players. Defense, physicality, and goaltending won them that cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ELIAS6 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I agree he's better than Travis. My point being that Boston won the cup with no superstars, and had a team with 50-60 point players. Defense, physicality, and goaltending won them that cup. oh yea... and scoring more then 1-2 goals a game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muevelos Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Outside of againg veterans we have no players like they do. Krejic is a quiet type of star. We don't have that depth they do. They'll roll a fourth line tbags comparable to our second line.. I agree he's better than Travis. My point being that Boston won the cup with no superstars, and had a team with 50-60 point players. Defense, physicality, and goaltending won them that cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Outside of againg veterans we have no players like they do. Krejic is a quiet type of star. We don't have that depth they do. They'll roll a fourth line tbags comparable to our second line.. Which is why I suggested getting another top 6 forward. And I wasn't trying to compare the two teams in terms of quality, just in the roster makeup. The Devils when healthy have a solid 4 lines. Our collective top 6 can put up around 300 points. Our bottom 6 would probably be around 200 points. That's more or less what the Bruins had in 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muevelos Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Our offense is to inconsistent as of this year. Which is why I suggested getting another top 6 forward. And I wasn't trying to compare the two teams in terms of quality, just in the roster makeup. The Devils when healthy have a solid 4 lines. Our collective top 6 can put up around 300 points. Our bottom 6 would probably be around 200 points. That's more or less what the Bruins had in 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 But he doesn't have a .930 save percentage, and there is no way to know whether he would have had that by virtue of getting more starts. In any event, a .930 save percentage and the very low GAA that would result from that basically makes Schneider a Vezina finalist, if not a shoe-in for the award. And that still puts us into third place in the division by 3-4 points over Washington after having played two more games. In other words, having the best goalie in the world would not advance the ball all that much over what the team actually is. Can you do math? I said 6-7 points. That puts NJ squarely into 2nd place, and that's before considering shootout wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Our offense is to inconsistent as of this year. You keep missing the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muevelos Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 No I get your point. But one dude isn't going to make that huge difference. Giving away merril or gelinias is dumb. You said Cammy for example. He isn't going to make barely any difference really not him no . getting anyone else would have a higher cost. Sal has no value other then 5-7 round pick. Gelinias and Merill would be dumb. Larsson to. Only one would be Fayne. He won't bring back a difference maker. You keep missing the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 The great thing about this goalie debate is that we'll probably be having this exact same conversation next season. Who honestly thinks Marty's retiring after this year? Anyone? And lou has shown he can't say no to veterans (Salvador says hi, to name one of many recipients of a loyalty contract). I don't expect Marty to be any different. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The great thing about this goalie debate is that we'll probably be having this exact same conversation next season. Who honestly thinks Marty's retiring after this year? Anyone? And lou has shown he can't say no to veterans (Salvador says hi, to name one of many recipients of a loyalty contract). I don't expect Marty to be any different. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk He bought out Jay Pandolfo. He traded Chris Terreri - twice. He convinced Sergei Brylin to not exercise his player option on his contract. He told Brendan Shanahan he couldn't hack it anymore. There's other examples I'm not thinking of, but he's not a complete pushover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 29th Pick Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 He bought out Jay Pandolfo. He traded Chris Terreri - twice. He convinced Sergei Brylin to not exercise his player option on his contract. He told Brendan Shanahan he couldn't hack it anymore. There's other examples I'm not thinking of, but he's not a complete pushover. Malakhov and Mogilny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 He bought out Jay Pandolfo. He traded Chris Terreri - twice. He convinced Sergei Brylin to not exercise his player option on his contract. He told Brendan Shanahan he couldn't hack it anymore. There's other examples I'm not thinking of, but he's not a complete pushover. He tried to get his captain to waive his no trade clause. Said peace to Madden. Dumped Mogilny in the minors (an act of desperation, I guess), Bought out Colin White. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 No I get your point. But one dude isn't going to make that huge difference. Giving away merril or gelinias is dumb. You said Cammy for example. He isn't going to make barely any difference really not him no . getting anyone else would have a higher cost. Sal has no value other then 5-7 round pick. Gelinias and Merill would be dumb. Larsson to. Only one would be Fayne. He won't bring back a difference maker. You're only understanding maybe 1/3 of my overall point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The great thing about this goalie debate is that we'll probably be having this exact same conversation next season. Who honestly thinks Marty's retiring after this year? Anyone? And lou has shown he can't say no to veterans (Salvador says hi, to name one of many recipients of a loyalty contract). I don't expect Marty to be any different. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk You don't know he won't retire just like we don't know he will retire. I am hopeful though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muevelos Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 No again I understand you but we can't afford to rid of either merril, gelinias,larrsson or severson. At this point we can't and one forward isn't going to make a huge difference for a short time while handing away our future that's ready been said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 No again I understand you but we can't afford to rid of either merril, gelinias,larrsson or severson. At this point we can't and one forward isn't going to make a huge difference for a short time while handing away our future that's ready been said. As I said, you don't understand my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muevelos Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Trading Merrill, gelly, severson. Would be a mistake. You don't understand that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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